39 posts in this topic

i have a theory about shades. it might already be out there but i havent seen anything.

so my theory is about shades and why they are less aware than other CS's

my theory is that the reason that they are less self aware is that they are mostly stuck in the Physical Realm.

most other CS's we've seen have always been in the cognitive realm. there are a few exeptions however such as the "mist spirit" on Scadrial. We know that when someone dies on the Physical realm, they lose all connection to their body and are now a CS in the Cognitive Realm.

why then are shades manifesting on the Physical Realm? I dont know.

 and why do look less like their former selves over time? my best guess is that that like all other CS's, shades are drawn to The Beyond, but instead of choosing to stay or go, shades are slowly losing bits of themselves to The Beyond

 

P.S. how invested are Shades? 

A normal human would get sucked into the beyond almost instantly. A misting/mistborn would probably last a few minutes/hours 

shades can at least go Decades though

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That does match with other Cognitive entities we know: the spren

 

Edited by Honorless
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6 hours ago, Honorless said:

That does match with other Cognitive entities we know

  Hide contents

spren

 

Thats where I got a lot of this. 

Spoiler

Like when spren transition into the physical realm, they lose most of themselves until they form a bond

I bet that shades start out in the CR but almost immediately after, get pulled into the PR and become what we know as shades.

Maybe Silence has some form of bond with the shade of her grandmother and that's why she's a little more aware/cognizant than the rest

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by Eternal Khol
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9 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Thats where I got a lot of this. 

Like when spren transition into the physical realm, they lose most of themselves until they form a bond

I bet that shades start out in the CR but almost immediately after, get pulled into the PR and become what we know as shades.

  Reveal hidden contents

Maybe Silence has some form of bond with the shade of her grandmother and that's why she's a little more aware/cognizant than the rest

 

I think you should hide the second paragraph rather than the last one :)

 

~Mistborn era 2 spoilers~

Spoiler

In the Broadsheets (New Ascendancy in Bands of Mourning), Nicki Sauvage encounters Nazh, who apparently has a gun that can fire Shades

 

Edited by Honorless
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7 minutes ago, Honorless said:

I think you should hide the second paragraph rather than the last one :)

Done. Ty ty

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Actually maybe I'm being too stiff about this. Who'd have read Arcanum Unbounded without reading the main series? Unspoiler them! They're integral to the theory anyway! 

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11 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Actually maybe I'm being too stiff about this. Who'd have read Arcanum Unbounded without reading the main series? Unspoiler them! They're integral to the theory anyway! 

I'm on my phone and can't find a way to delete the spoiler tag thing, any way to do this?

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13 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

I'm on my phone and can't find a way to delete the spoiler tag thing, any way to do this?

Just copy paste the text outside of the spoiler box, then remove the now empty spoiler box

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6 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Just copy paste the text outside of the spoiler box, then remove the now empty spoiler box

But it doesn't let me remove it

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3 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

But it doesn't let me remove it

Just use backspace

 

If it doesn't work, just tell me and I will copy your responses and you can then backspace the whole comment(s) and copy paste them

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3 hours ago, Honorless said:

~Mistborn era 2 spoilers~

  Hide contents

In the Broadsheets (New Ascendancy in Bands of Mourning), Nicki Sauvage encounters Nazh, who apparently has a gun that can fire Shades

Its feels like it could be shades but maybe it's also a regular Scadrian CS

In Secret History, we see Hoid using a CS as a boat to get through the cognitive realm.

 

I'm leaning more towards shades though because they are deadly.

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6 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Its feels like it could be shades but maybe it's also a regular Scadrian CS

In Secret History, we see Hoid using a CS as a boat to get through the cognitive realm.

 

I'm leaning more towards shades though because they are deadly.

It seemed more like a Shade than a normal CS going by its description, besides weaponizing Shades makes sense but what would chucking a normal Cognitive Shadow at another person even achieve? (Now I want to see this happen)

As for the one Hoid was using as a boat, we have no idea where he's from except his clothing suggested that he wasn't from Scadrial

Edited by Honorless
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I can't delete the boxes not matter what I try. But it's fine

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1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

I can't delete the boxes not matter what I try. But it's fine

That's strange

I just tried, it worked just fine for me

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5 hours ago, Honorless said:

~Mistborn era 2 spoilers~

  Hide contents

In the Broadsheets (New Ascendancy in Bands of Mourning), Nicki Sauvage encounters Nazh, who apparently has a gun that can fire Shades

After Nazh fires his "shade gun" the runes on the gun flash green, and right when he's about to fire they turn red.

 This reminds me a lot of a shades eyes when you start to break The Simple Rules.

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On 1/25/2020 at 5:09 PM, Eternal Khol said:

After Nazh fires his "shade gun" the runes on the gun flash green, and right when he's about to fire they turn red.

 This reminds me a lot of a shades eyes when you start to break The Simple Rules.

Yeah, I noticed that. So the Threnodites have found a fabrial/medallion equivalent, more or less

All that's left are... Shadeblades!

 

From the fact that you tagged the Evil and mentioned the Mist Spirit in a somewhat similar context, are you a proponent of the theory that the Evil is a Splinter?

There's another cool theory regarding the same... thing, that I rather liked and thought you might like as well:

I would also like to add that Uli Da, the holder of the Shard of Ambition was a Sho Del, who were Fainlife sapient beings

Edited by Honorless
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@Honorless this WoB has some pretty big implications

 

Questioner (paraphrased)

So what happens when Shards die?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, it depends on how long the Shardholders have held the Shard. After it dies, the Shard is often able to continue acting, a kind of "Cognitive Shadow" of sorts. For example, the mists were able to continue doing what Preservation wished in helping out Vin and Snapping people. With the Stormfather, he is that Cognitive Shadow, and he's semi-sentient. It's that power, but no one is actually holding it. We also see this on Threnody.

Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014)

 

this implies that The Evil of Threnody or the Shades are a Cognitive Shadows of sorts of Ambitions power. Not necessarily a CS but the power is continuing to act on Uli Da's wishes before her Death.

Edited by Eternal Khol
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On 1/25/2020 at 4:12 AM, Honorless said:

Who'd have read Arcanum Unbounded without reading the main series?

I did that. That's actually how I got into the Cosmere... 

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danimalod

I just read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and loved it. How did the first shade come to be? Are there shades in other worlds? Do shades have bones?

Brandon Sanderson

Shades are what we call "Cognitive shadows" in the cosmere. They're basically "spren" or "[seons]" created from human souls. (Where investiture--or magical power--keeps a consciousness alive after it has lost its Physical connection.) Yes, shades all once had bodies.

Think of them like petrified souls, where instead of stone replacing the tissue of a corpse, magical power replaced the parts of a soul that connect that soul to the Three Realms.

 

Investiture replaces the humans connection to all 3 realms.

Spren didnt have that preexisting connection to the 3 realm.

So when a human dies and turns into a shade, the Investiture is imprinting on their connection to the physical realm and some part of them is stuck in the physical realm. 

This also makes me think that if only part of them is stuck in the PR that the bulk of them is in the CR then the shades must be smarter in the CR. 

This could explain why in Mistborn: Secret History, Alonoe is afraid of "threnodites" trying to make a move on them

Edited by Eternal Khol
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On 2/1/2020 at 7:37 AM, SirWolfe said:

I did that. That's actually how I got into the Cosmere... 

 

images.jpeg

 

 

 

Quote
Quote

danimalod

I just read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and loved it. How did the first shade come to be? Are there shades in other worlds? Do shades have bones?

Brandon Sanderson

Shades are what we call "Cognitive shadows" in the cosmere. They're basically "spren" or "[seons]" created from human souls. (Where investiture--or magical power--keeps a consciousness alive after it has lost its Physical connection.) Yes, shades all once had bodies.

Think of them like petrified souls, where instead of stone replacing the tissue of a corpse, magical power replaced the parts of a soul that connect that soul to the Three Realms.

 

Investiture replaces the humans connection to all 3 realms.

Spren didnt have that preexisting connection to the 3 realm.

So when a human dies and turns into a Shade, the Investiture is imprinting on their connection to the physical realm and some part of them is stuck in the physical realm. 

This also makes me think that if only part of them is stuck in the PR that the bulk of them is in the CR then the shades must be smarter in the CR. 

This could explain why in Mistborn: Secret History, Alonoe is afraid of "threnodites" trying to make a move on them

Hmm, I think she was referring to the kind of Shades that Nazh was referring to in Secret History, @Eternal Khol, given that she was mentioning "the powers on Threnody" as wanting to join "the stage". I think those are different types of entities.

Edited by Honorless
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24 minutes ago, Honorless said:

 

images.jpeg

 

Hmm, I think she was referring to the kind of Shades that Nazh was referring to in Secret History, @Eternal Khol, given that she was mentioning "the powers on Threnody" as wanting to join "the stage". I think those are different types of entities.

When nazh is talking about rituals to become a shadow, is that what you were referring to? 

Your probably right about that, but Im still standing firm on the rest of the theory.

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51 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

When nazh is talking about rituals to become a shadow, is that what you were referring to? 

Your probably right about that, but Im still standing firm on the rest of the theory.

Yeah, the rest of the theory on what the Shades are we can both agree on

On 1/26/2020 at 5:47 AM, Eternal Khol said:
Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

So what happens when Shards die?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, it depends on how long the Shardholders have held the Shard. After it dies, the Shard is often able to continue acting, a kind of "Cognitive Shadow" of sorts. For example, the mists were able to continue doing what Preservation wished in helping out Vin and Snapping people. With the Stormfather, he is that Cognitive Shadow, and he's semi-sentient. It's that power, but no one is actually holding it. We also see this on Threnody.

Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014)

 

this implies that The Evil of Threnody or the Shades are a Cognitive Shadows of sorts of Ambitions power. Not necessarily a CS but the power is continuing to act on Uli Da's wishes before her Death.

I'm for this theory myself, it would just have been interesting if the Evil was Fainlife, but it being a piece of Ambition's Investiture does seem more probable. Many people theorize that it might be a piece of Odium's Investiture or Ambition's Investiture corrupted by Odium's. I'm not completely against that but I think what's happening is due to Realmatics of having free Investiture resulting in a form of Investiture irradiation.

~Mistborn era 1 spoilers~

Spoiler

Suddenly free floating Investiture being bad for a Shardworld is something Brandon has talked about, bad things could've happened on Scadrial had Kelsier not been there to take up Preservation after Leras died

 

Edited by Honorless
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4 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Yeah, the rest of the theory on what the Shades are we can both agree on

I'm for this theory myself, it would just have been interesting if the Evil was Fainlife, but it being a piece of Ambition's Investiture does seem more probable. Many people theorize that it might be a piece of Odium's Investiture or Ambition's Investiture corrupted by Odium's. I'm not completely against it but I think what's happening is due to Realmatics

I think The Evil has something to do with Fainlife or more specifically Sho Del or their abilities. Uli Da's status as a Sho Del would probably factor into that

Edited by Eternal Khol
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1 minute ago, Eternal Khol said:

I think The Evil has something to do with Fainlife or more specifically Sho Del or their abilities. Uli Da's status as a Sho Del would probably factor into that

Are you hitting the "both" option then? Splinter and Fainlife... that's actually pretty terrifying

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6 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Are you hitting the "both" option then? Splinter and Fainlife... that's actually pretty terrifying

Maybe not fainlife but something similar that uses some of the same principles

Either that or a ambition splinter

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