theory Feruchemy, Worldbringers, and Worldsingers

[+Invocation]

Feruchemy was a gift to the Terris people. It would almost make sense if it was Preservation giving the gift, or it had directly manifested from the interaction of the two Shards present, but what if it wasn't?

Here's my thought: Worldbringers and Worldsingers are related in name between Scadrial and Roshar. There's some commerce between the two, as we've seen with various people showing up on Roshar over the course of Stormlight, but the easiest way for something like that to occur, especially since Hoid has "a relationship with the Worldsingers" in some way, shape or form, is that he influenced both of those in taking root.

How would he have known to do that? He uses something similar to Chromium Feruchemy to know where he has to go and what he has to do, but why would that be? He's a Yolish (and now Rosharan) Lightweaver. Why would he have Feruchemy? Simple: Feruchemy, just like the Lightweaving he shows, was originally a Yolish magic magic system in some form. That's why his Fortune manipulation is close to Feruchemy but isn't quite there.

Now if you'll remember, Leras and Ati based their Scadrian humans on the Yolish variety, which means that if there was a form of Feruchemy there, it makes sense some of that would have manifested on Scadrial. But it wouldn't have done it on its own. There's some influence there.

Hoid can get to Yolen and back, and does so frequently enough that Frost has learned how to anticipate it. Provided that Feruchemy manifested on Yolen, they'd know about it, and I'll bet Hoid "borrowed" someone from Yolen to teach the newly created ancient Scadrians how to manifest their abilities. That person he borrowed from Yolen is probably the source of the Terris prophecies as well, down to the name Worldbringer and its origins as a corrupted form of the name Worldsinger that likely originated on Yolen with a similar principle to Copper Feruchemy and essentially being a traveling bard.

I'm not saying it wouldn't changed via interaction with the two Shards (Yolish Feruchemy might not have the metal-focus or the bounding into 16 metals), just for the record.

At some point after that, Hoid would have travelled to Roshar and founded the Worldsingers there. Now I'm not saying he'd have done that in the event that Feruchemical bloodlines end up on Roshar, but I'm also not not saying that. I'm also really not not saying that the Ones Above in Sixth of Dusk are the fruit of that labor as a mixed Scadrian/Rosharan bloodline group. Feruchemical Radiants!

Tl;dr: Hoid gave the Scadrians Feruchemy thanks to some Yolish shenanigans and founded the Rosharan Worldsingers in the event that the Rosharans get Feruchemy from Scadrian Worldhoppers.

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Invocation said:

Hoid can get to Yolen and back, and does so frequently enough that Frost has learned how to anticipate it. Provided that Feruchemy manifested on Yolen, they'd know about it, and I'll bet Hoid "borrowed" someone from Yolen to teach the newly created ancient Scadrians how to manifest their abilities. That person he borrowed from Yolen is probably the source of the Terris prophecies as well, down to the name Worldbringer and its origins as a corrupted form of the name Worldsinger that likely originated on Yolen with a similar principle to Copper Feruchemy and essentially being a traveling bard.

Hoid did not have feruchemy during era 1 mistborn.  His was wounded during his meeting with Vin because he "went overboard" while trying to figure it out.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Karger

[Quantus]

17 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Feruchemy was a gift to the Terris people.

Im not sure what you were trying to reference, the WOB you linked doesnt mention the origins of Feruchemy at all, adn to my knowledge we still dont have any confirmed details about how it came to be. 

 

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Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

As it turns out, there is an error in the Feruchemical table when Brandon put it in Mistborn 2. If you look closely, Determination (electrum) doesn't belong in its group. The group that it is in is obviously more physical powers. Determination was supposed to be a mental metal, and Warmth was supposed to be in that Physical group. He just made a mistake originally. But it turns out that Feruchemy obeys different rules than Allomancy, so Brandon isn't retconning it, but saying that Feruchemy works differently now. Apparently there was going to be a table of Feruchemy at the end of Alloy of Law, but it wasn't ready because Isaac kept thinking like an Allomancer. Feruchemy has its own rules (for example, Brandon confirmed that pewter does steal Feruchemical health, probably because that second group of physical Feruchemical powers are also "physical", so pewter can steal them.) Hemalurgy also obeys different rules.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

 

 

[Weltall]

We know that feruchemy was a gift from Preservation and was the result of that shard and Ruin both being on Scadrial. It's kind of an open-and-shut case.

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NutiketAiel

For Feruchemy, can you only inherit that? Or is there another way to get it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you could obviously get it through a Hemalurgic spike.

NutiketAiel

Yeah, but that’s kind of a different thing.

Brandon Sanderson

It is hereditary, but it came from somewhere. Which is a RAFO, but it’s not a big RAFO. There’s not something you missed in the books, or anything like that. It originally came from Preservation long ago. And there are other ways to get it, but you have not missed any major plot points regarding that. Good question.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

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Argent (paraphrased)

Feruchemy is the "balance" between Ruin and Preservation. Would any combination of Shards create a "balance" magic, so to speak, or are only certain Shards compatible?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Feruchemy ended up being a balance system, because of how polar Ruin and Preservation were. Any world with at least two Shards will result in a similar phenomenon. 

Argent (paraphrased)

Like Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Like Roshar. There is something like that going on there.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 5, 2013)  

The WoB where Brandon appeared to say that Hoid had feruchemy was a paraphrase and exact recordings of what Brandon has said since make it clear that either he misspoke or (more likely) the person who recorded the original line misunderstood. Hoid doesn't have feruchemy but his 'Hoidsense' makes use of the same underlying mechanic as F-Chromium. That doesn't mean that Hoid has 'Yolish proto-Feruchemy' and gave it to the Scadrians any more than it means that space-traveling Aviar somehow were responsible for A-Electrum having the same effect that Sak's Talent does. Magics can use similar fundamentals without being more closely related;

[Quantus]

50 minutes ago, Weltall said:

We know that feruchemy was a gift from Preservation and was the result of that shard and Ruin both being on Scadrial. It's kind of an open-and-shut case.

The WoB where Brandon appeared to say that Hoid had feruchemy was a paraphrase and exact recordings of what Brandon has said since make it clear that either he misspoke or (more likely) the person who recorded the original line misunderstood. Hoid doesn't have feruchemy but his 'Hoidsense' makes use of the same underlying mechanic as F-Chromium. That doesn't mean that Hoid has 'Yolish proto-Feruchemy' and gave it to the Scadrians any more than it means that space-traveling Aviar somehow were responsible for A-Electrum having the same effect that Sak's Talent does. Magics can use similar fundamentals without being more closely related;

I would contend that "Came from Preservation long ago" does not confirm that it was a conscious gift to the Terris people from Leras.  It could simply mean that it's a magic that;s sources in Preservation, which we knew already.

[Weltall]

@Quantus We have other WoBs that are more explicit that it was a gift.

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teknopathetic

I have a Reddit PM WOB that says the Terris were given Feruchemy as a gift, and that Brandon may get into how that occurred at some point.

Brandon Sanderson

It was more of a gift than an accident, but I do plan to someday dig into it more.

General Reddit 2018 (April 30, 2018)

 

[Quantus]

1 minute ago, Weltall said:

@Quantus We have other WoBs that are more explicit that it was a gift.

 

Awesome, thanks!   That was the specific distinction I was getting stuck on, that a "Gift" implied Choice and Intent, while "from Preservation" could still be an accidental development.  

[Aon Tia]

10 hours ago, Invocation said:

He uses something similar to Chromium Feruchemy to know where he has to go and what he has to do, but why would that be? He's a Yolish (and now Rosharan) Lightweaver. Why would he have Feruchemy? Simple: Feruchemy, just like the Lightweaving he shows, was originally a Yolish magic magic system in some form. That's why his Fortune manipulation is close to Feruchemy but isn't quite there

I really like this idea!! I have you have something here. 

[Zapata]

we currently know Hoid has unkeyed metalminds like the coin he gave to Wax

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Steeldancer

Hoid. Does he have more unkeyed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid has access to lots of different things, so, yes he does.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

 

[Honorless]

The relationship between Worldbringers and Worldsingers seems to be in their name & their purpose of preserving knowledge, as well as some link to a system of Investiture. Perhaps Hoid had a hand their founding, direct or indirect, but I don't think the relationship goes deeper than that.

Um... you seem to have linked the wrong WoB for Feruchemy as a gift, btw

Edit: Ooh, already resolved by Weltall

Edited January 22, 2020 by Honorless