skaa

theory
Theory: The Elevations and Callings of Dawnshards

15 posts in this topic

(To the old-timers out there: I'm back!)

Part I: Elevations

Here is what we know about Dawnshards as of OB:

  • They were ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls.
  • They can bind any creature voidish or mortal.
  • Tanavast thought they can be used against Odium.

We know that "Tranquiline Halls" is just another name for the previous home of the Rosharan humans, which was on Ashyn. We also know that the tragedy on Ashyn that led to mass migration were at least in part caused by the use of Surges, and that Odium was involved somehow.

Based on that, I think it stands to reason that the Dawnshards must have granted Surges. And because of the way Tanavast talks about them almost fondly, I also think they must have existed before Rayse invaded Ashyn. In other words, Rayse merely corrupted them.

Since the Oathpact and the Immortal Words are of Honor, it's not that far-fetched to speculate that Dawnshards were originally from Cultivation.

(Here's a more thorough justification of that claim.)

Unlike Honor, Cultivation wasn't interested in oaths. Her manifestation of Investiture would instead require "growth" of some sort.

So here's the first part of my theory: I think Dawnshards were Cultivation-based Cognitive entities that granted Surges based on excellence.

This is how it would work: When a person reaches a given threshold of proficiency in an appropriate skill or profession, being bound to a Dawnshard for that profession would grant him a Surge. When he reaches an even higher level, he gains another Surge from the Dawnshard. This is akin to how Vorin ardents grant Elevations (whatever those are) to those who excelled in their Calling:
 

Quote

The devotaries taught that when men died, the most valiant among them—the ones who fulfilled their Callings best—would rise to help reclaim heaven. Each man would do as he had done in life. Spearmen to fight, farmers to work spiritual farms, lighteyes to lead. The ardents were careful to point out that excellence in any Calling would bring power. A farmer would be able to wave his hand and create great fields of spiritual crops. A spearman would be a great warrior, able to cause thunder with his shield and lightning with his spear.

But what of the bridgemen? ... No ardents came to them to test their abilities or grant them Elevations.

 

For example, there could be a Dawnshard that grants Surges (one of which is probably Gravitation) to leaders with the greatest domain and influence. So, ambitious people who wish to gain power from that kind of Dawnshard would try to gain more followers, etc.

In the same way, the best physicians might gain Regrowth as an Elevation. The best artists might gain Lightweaving. So on and so forth.

Conversely, failing to sustain a certain level of excellence means losing the bond with the Dawnshard. That could be how this particular manifestation of Investiture prevented abuse.

Then Odium came and corrupted the Dawnshards. Perhaps the "Passions" had something to do with this. Perhaps Odium's corruption made the Dawnshards search for passion rather than excellence. So anyone with intense ambition could attain power just by wanting so bad to be great at a Calling. Imagine how well that would go.

As we know, the cataclysmic events on Ashyn forced many of the survivors to move to Roshar and for the rest to live on the floating cities that the planet has now. It was presumably around that point as well that Ashyn's magic started relying on disease, instead of the Dawnshards.

Thus the era of the Dawnshards ended.

 

 



Part II: Callings

This second part is just pure speculation through and through. I just wanted to see if I could come up with a list of professions, all medieval or ancient in origin, that could have been associated with Dawnshards. Let's call these professions "Callings" after the similar Vorin term, just for convenience. In the list I'll also include the following:

- Divine Attributes best suited for each Calling
- Surges that would be thematically fitting for each Calling's Elevations

Unlike Honor's system, where the Radiants often experienced tension between their Attributes (creativity versus honesty, bravery versus obedience, etc.), I believe Cultivation's old system instead promoted complementary attributes to better cultivate the Calling.

Take Note: Obviously, in both real life and good fantasy, nobody within any profession will consistently exhibit the stereotypical traits of their profession. As Shallan said, "we’re more complex than mere bundles of personality traits." I think Brandon makes pretty complex characters, but that won't stop others, like the Dawnshards and the spren, from seeing the patterns they want to see.

Remember, this is all completely speculative, just like any Skaa Theory(TM). Feel free to post your own list of Callings if you wish.

Let's start with the only Calling in my list that was mentioned in-book in a context that involves a Dawnshard: Herald.

 


Calling: Herald
Attributes: Careful and Obedient
Surges: Transportation and Abrasion

Quote

“Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above.”
—From The Poem of Ista

In medieval times, heralds were messengers hired by nobles and monarchs to communicate with others on their behalf. The Surge of Transportation would have been a god-send for that task: Imagine messengers who can move between two correspondents in no time at all.

The Surge of Abrasion also fits this idea of speed, but I'm more interested in the idea of "spiritual abrasion", wherein one "smoothens" relationships between parties. We saw a glimpse of this when Lift managed to soften Nale's heart for a few minutes. Heralds were the precursors of diplomats, and endeavored for peace and understanding to prevail between their lord and others. As diplomats, they needed to be careful and logical as they forge agreements between parties, but still obedient to the will of the lord they represent.

By the way, using Abrasion would allow one to crawl up gigantic steps, as in the Poem of Ista. I bet the character in the poem was supposed to be a Herald on Ashyn. The steps were, after all, made for Heralds.

(The descriptions for the rest of the Callings below are placed in spoiler tags for length.)

 


Calling: Knight
Attributes: Just and Resolute
Surges: Gravitation and Transportation

Spoiler

Knights are a noble class known in medieval times for their horsemanship, their supposed acts of chivalry, and their oath of fealty to a monarch or other lord.

For Ashynite Knights, being just pertains to following their codes of chivalry and their oaths with the utmost resolve. Like leaves in the wind, they embrace the Lashings that bind them, whether they are Lashed through the air, to the ceiling, or to a different realm altogether.

Yes, I consider Transportation to be a Lashing, mainly because of Jasnah's experience:

Quote

That puffed out the last of her Stormlight, which she had drawn in at the last possible moment, then used like a lash to pull herself into this place. It had kept her alive, healed her.
...
How had it happened? The academic wanted to record her experiences and tease out the process, so that perhaps she could replicate it. She’d used Stormlight, hadn’t she? An outpouring of it, thrust into Shadesmar. A lash which had pulled her, like gravitation from a distant place, unseen…

To complete the medieval imagery, I imagine Ashynite Knights to all have horses, perhaps of the Ryshadium variety.

 


Calling: King
Attributes: Guiding and Leading
Surges: Tension and Gravitation

Spoiler

A King is a leader, someone who is followed. He (or she; remember that female Reshi king?) has the authority to make laws that bind everyone under his rule, as gravity binds everyone, punishing those who stray far from his will.

But a King does not just lead by decree and threats. Nohadon teaches that a king must also lead by example. He must therefore be a guide for others, a model of strength, and a shining beacon of unity. As Nale says, "Law is Light," and the lawmaker must be the Illuminator. A King does this by following the very laws that he makes, and excelling in the same virtues that he demands from his subjects. Being a model and a guide, he spiritually pulls others towards the path he chooses.

There will be tension, as it takes effort for people to change their ways. Some subjects might even break due to the strain. And there is always a risk that the King himself will break. Despite this, a good King knows that people should do better and take the next step, even after falling.

That is, after all, the Way of Kings.

 


Calling: Scribe
Attributes: Wise and Dependable
Surges: Transformation and Tension

Spoiler

Scribes are responsible for making official records. Throughout history, scribes have acted as accountants, clerks, notaries, journalists, copyists, and archivists, among other roles. They wrote down the decrees of kings and gods, laws and scripture alike. In their wisdom, they make sure that anything worthy of safe-keeping will be preserved, and they are usually very dependable in that regard.

This Calling is one deeply rooted in truth and accountability. I feel that this was the Calling closest to Honor, because attestation of oaths is something Scribes (as notaries) would do.

(Side note: The idea of Honor being a Shardic scribe reminds me of Stennimar, the honorable accountant from Nalthis.)

I imagine Ashynite Scribes Soulcasting important records into a much more durable form (stone?). As representatives of Honor, even in Cultivation's system they must have had a special role. Perhaps Scribes presided over sacred funeral rites that honored the deceased with a recitation of their recorded achievements before their body was Soulcast to stone. Perhaps Scribes even executed the deceased's will and testament, another act of honor that the Stormfather might have echoed in executing Tanavast's will.

In ancient Egypt, the goddess of wisdom, Seshat, was a divine scribe and record keeper. She measured things by stretching a knotted cord, something that Ashynite Scribes might have done as well using the Tension Surge.

 


Calling: Scholar
Attributes: Learned and Honest
Surges: Illumination and Transformation

Spoiler

A scholar is someone who lives a life of learning. Scholars also love sharing what they've learned, as they are part of a community that is open to knowing honest facts.

I believe this Calling grants the user the power to sense the pertinent truths around them, the same mysterious Illumination ability that Truthwatchers have. This would of course aid scholarly research.

Members of this Calling could also Soulcast, but like Shallan they would probably find Spiritual Transformation easier, using honesty to transform others, just as they use learning to transform themselves. "A true scholar who changes the world," as Jasnah said in WoK Chapter 36.

(I have another idea about this Calling, but I'm afraid to share that particular vision too soon. :P)

 


Calling: Artist
Attributes: Resourceful and Creative
Surges: Cohesion and Illumination

Spoiler

Ashynite Artists can make sculptures out of any hard material using Cohesion, and create realistic illusions using Illumination. These are straightforwardly appropriate Elevations for the resourceful and creative, so I have nothing much to add except that these Artists would make excellent spies.

 


Calling: Priest
Attributes: Pious and Builder
Surges: Adhesion and Cohesion

Spoiler

In Roman times, the high priests were called "pontifex", or "bridge-builders". The term was figurative, of course, but the Romans did consider certain bridges sacred, as the rivers they crossed were seen as gods.

A priest, as a model of piety, is supposed to be a bridge between god/s and mankind. I'm speculating that Brandon took this idea to a literal level by giving Ashynite priests engineering responsibilities so that they literally built bridges. And I imagine Cohesion would fit this engineering role perfectly. I could also see them using Cohesion when creating temples, as well as ornate religious items made of precious metals.

As for Adhesion, Priests could use Spiritual Adhesion to preach to people with a different language. Like the Apostles in the Bible who spoke in tongues.

I also have a feeling that an Ashynite version of fabrials can be made by bonding Cognitive entities with Adhesion. Such items would be considered sacred.

 


Calling: Squire
Attributes: Protecting and Giving
Surges: Adhesion and Progression

Spoiler

Squires were knights-in-training. They became servants of full knights and did various chores like maintaining the knight's equipment, helping the knight put on his armor, and even acting as the knight's bodyguard, all while waiting to be knighted themselves once they prove their skill.

I imagine Ashynite Squires to be similar to Knights Radiant squires in that their role existed because of their relationship with someone else with power. Squires had access to Investiture, meaning they had the passive benefits such as self-healing, but they were only there to protect and serve someone already bonded to a Dawnshard, and their powers persisted as long as they remained devoted to their role.

I might even go so far as to speculate that Squires were not, in fact, bonded to a Dawnshard themselves, just like how Radiant squires aren't bonded to a spren. Ashynite Squires were granted a boost in fighting skill via Adhesion (similar to the boost that Kaladin experiences; it makes sense as an effect of the Protecting Attribute). Also, their bond allowed their sire to extract their Investiture for use, which could be critical when they needed healing.

Without an associated Dawnshard, Squires were the lowest of the Callings, though still an important one.

 


Calling: Herbalist
Attributes: Healing and Confident
Surges: Progression and Division

Spoiler

Before the advent of modern medicine, most physicians were herbalists who used concoctions from plants to heal people. They usually didn't perform operations like surgery (spoiler alert: that's the next Calling), but rather simply prescribed medication based on their diagnosis.

Of course, you want a physician to be confident in his diagnosis and his prescription. After all, you came to him because of his supposed expertise in healing disease. He should be able to discern with a reasonable level of certainty what is good and what is bad for you.

Just as Scribes were the closest to Honor, Herbalists were the closest to Cultivation. They had the power over both life and death, as one needs to destroy things in order to cultivate others. Herbalists were given the highest respect in Ashynite societies. Aside from being physicians, they were also farmers, and their powers can till the land (Division) and hasten plant growth (Progression). And like the farmers of the Shin, they had the right to adjudicate on various important matters, bringing their skill to discern between good and bad to a broader level.

In other words, they were the judges.

 


Calling: Surgeon
Attributes: Brave and Loving
Surges: Division and Abrasion

Spoiler

At first this was the Calling I was going to call "Knight" because of the Brave attribute, but I found something more suitable. There is a profession for people who do not flinch in the face of gruesome things, a profession also for those with compassion towards the suffering of others. I'm talking of course about surgeons.

In OB, Pattern said that ashspren liked breaking things because they want to know what's inside. This outlook sounds like a good starting point for a would-be-surgeon, who will need to know what's inside people, and will need to cut people up. I imagine a mastery of both the bond-breaking of Division and the slicking of Abrasion granted Surgeons the ability to precisely and smoothly remove adhesive bonds between specific cells, creating an opening in the skin or tissue without any damage to the cells themselves. So, no Dustbringer burns. Just super precise cuts.

But how to heal the cuts? Notice that Progression is not one of their Surges. Back in the medieval ages, surgeons were seen as inferior to physicians. Physicians were academics who excelled in medical theory, who studied innumerable ailments and how to heal them, and who therefore preferred to heal the wealthy who could afford them. Surgeons, on the other hand, were seen as glorified razor-wielding barbers, with a sewing kit to close surgical wounds. The physicians, if they are available, would be the ones checking on patients post-surgery. The actual healing was not part of the surgeon's job.

Fortunately, Ashynite Surgeons had something better than sutures. By applying the sticky type of Abrasion to the two sides of a cut, I believe the cells would stick together again. This is similar to how Dalinar used Adhesion to re-form broken inanimate objects, except I think Abrasion can apply this to living flesh.

This is not the same as Regrowth, as this trick will not heal disease or intracellular damage. But imagine being able to stick a fully severed limb back with Abrasion, instead of using up a lot of Investiture in Regrowing the whole limb. That could be quite handy.

The Herbalist physicians and the Surgeons would ideally work with each other, of course.

 


So, do you guys like my list?

By the way, did you notice how Division, the Surge of destruction and decay, is in the hands of medical Callings in my list? I believe this is how Cultivation would choose to do things. What do you think?

If you noticed my little hints here and there, you'll realize that there is way more to this theory. But I'm stopping here for now to avoid bloating up this post any further.

Edited by skaa
12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, skaa said:

Since the Oathpact and the Immortal Words are of Honor, it's not that far-fetched to speculate that Dawnshards were originally from Cultivation.

Or that they were also of Honor(the binding does hint at this) or that they are originally of the Rosharan system itself created by adonalsium and assigned to any or a bunch of the shards on shattering.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its obvious you've put a lot of work unto this so I'm reluctant to disagree, but I disagree on some points. 

Nahel surgebinding is if both Cultivation and Honor and is pretty much confined to Roshar. Furthermore the only shard present on Ashyn (as far as I know) was Odium. I agree that the Dawnshards probably granted surgebinding but likely in the form known as Voidbinding, Odiums own take on the system. I also doubt that the system of callings seen in Vorinism would date back to Ashyn. Vorinism is influenced by Honor, the Heralds, Knights, and the number 10 none of which are associated with Ashyn (except the kinda the Heralds, but I understand they weren't "powered up" till they went to Roshar).

TLDR: I like Dawnshards granting surgebinding, but think they're probably of Odium and have nothing to do with callings or elevation. 

Edited by Elsecaller_17.5
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isnt surgebinding like feruchemy. Powers of two shards. Voidbinding would be of three Shards. 

so what is Honors power? Or Cultivation? Odium?

then we have the old magic.

interesting theory

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

Isnt surgebinding like feruchemy. Powers of two shards. Voidbinding would be of three Shards. 

so what is Honors power? Or Cultivation? Odium?

That's a fair point on the Nahel Surgebinding, but I don't think H and C would be loaning O any investure so he can make voidbinders.

To clarify I think N-binding is H and C but V-binding is just O.

The old magic does appear to be purely C and I think the proto Herald-binding was just H.

Edit: The old magic may have an influence on the "worthiness and perception" bit on N-binding whereas H-binding just gave powers without checks.

Edit: the more I think about it the more I feel that H and C might be so intertwined that its hard to separate their magics.

Edited by Elsecaller_17.5
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elsecaller_17.5,

It could be a false memory but i think theres a WoB confirming the Heralds and Radiants powers are like feruchemy, and something about we have seen but its not confirmed H @ C's... say allomancy.

i could be wrong and im crap at swarching WoB. So take with a grain of salt until proven.

Edited by Thanatos
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

It could be a faulse memory but i think theres a WoB confirming the Heralds and Radiants powers are like feruchemy, and something about we have seen but its not confirmed H @ C's... say allomancy.

It very well could be, I'm spitballing as much as anything right now.

And if you put an @ in front of someone's name like this: @Thanatos it will send them a notification that you "mentioned" them.

This WoB sheds some light on the subject in general.

Questioner

How many magic systems are in The Stormlight Archive, and how many of them haven't been seen?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say the only major one you haven’t seen is Voidbinding, it depends on how you count them. I count fabrials as one, Surgebinding as one, and Voidbinding as one. And then the Old Magic is kind of its own weird thing.

And just in general, there's a lot of grey area in this topic.

Questioner

So far all the spren that have bonded to humans appear to be emotion-based as opposed to nature-based. Is that true for all the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Well it depends. For instance: how would you define Wyndle?

Questioner

I struggled with that one.

Brandon Sanderson

Uh hm. So I would say that you are on the right track, that there is a definite inclination that direction.

Questioner

Towards Honor?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There is.

Questioner

Is there other surges then, that are more Cultivation-exclusive or other Knights Radiant that are...?

Brandon Sanderson

We'll RAFO that, but the original Knights Radiant are more focused on Honor and his spren.

Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014) Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016) Edited by Elsecaller_17.5
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting theory @skaa I would not say whether I agree or disagree at this point but I think until we get more information, every theory has some merit. 
What according to you became of the corrupted Dawnshards. Unmades?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly I made a mistake in not justifying my premise that Cultivation was the source of the Dawnshards. To be honest, I only intended this to be an exploration of that idea, a "What If?" so to speak. It's a thing I do with my theory threads: Take an idea and just Storming play with it, you know? See how far I can go, and try to have fun while doing it. This is why I described my post as speculative several times.

But now, I do wish to explain how I came up with the idea in the first place. Here are the little things, things that might be complete coincidences, that nonetheless pulled me towards this theory.

 


Reason 1: Incubation

This all began when I read about the Incubators of present-day Ashyn.

The name of their manifestation of Investiture, "Incubation", is obviously meant to refer to the developmental stage of disease. That sort of icky association might make it easy to forget that "incubation" is actually a positive word. It means maintaining the right conditions for something to develop and grow. In the case of disease, the organisms being developed unfortunately make people sick. But you can also incubate benign cells. Another example is chicken eggs, that need incubation for them to hatch, producing cute little baby chickens.

Even if it only cultivates disease, Ashyn Incubation is still in line with the intent of Cultivation.

Now, disease isn't a very nice thing to cultivate, obviously. But it did make me think that Ashyn must be connected to Cultivation, somehow. It made me think that, maybe, the disease magic exists there because of Cultivation's failure with the Dawnshards.

 


Reason 2: Vorinism

Quote

“Isn’t that the problem? What has any of this ever required of men like me? What has it required of any of us?”

“It required you to be what you are.”

“Which is self-fulfilling,” Dalinar said. “You were a swordsman, Kadash. Would you have gotten better without opponents to face? Would you have gotten stronger without weights to lift? Well, in Vorinism, we’ve spent centuries avoiding the opponents and the weights.”

Here's a question: Is Vorinism really what Honor would have wanted from those who worshiped him? Sure, it seems benign enough as a religion. (I mean, aside from the militarism and the sexism...) But notice how modern Alethi religion, i.e. post-Nohadon and post-Recreance, doesn't preach about oath-keeping or following codes. Rather, they focus on making you the best of who you already are.

Just like Cultivation.

Quote

I WILL NOT MAKE OF YOU THE MAN YOU CAN BECOME. I WILL NOT GIVE YOU THE APTITUDE, OR THE STRENGTH, NOR WILL I TAKE FROM YOU YOUR COMPULSIONS. BUT I WILL GIVE YOU … A PRUNING. A CAREFUL EXCISION TO LET YOU GROW.

Cultivation doesn't demand spiritual change from people. She prunes them herself where she sees fit, but otherwise lets them be who they are. Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Her gambit with Dalinar proved that she knew what she was doing. But it isn't Honor's way. Honor wants to transform people. As Shallan said in WoK:

Quote

The power of change itself, the power by which the Almighty had created Roshar. He had another name, allowed to pass only the lips of ardents. Elithanathile. He Who Transforms.

The ardents speak of "recasting souls into something greater", but do they teach how Honor wants that done? No, they don't talk about oaths, the honorable oaths that pull people towards change.

Upon realizing this, I felt that Callings and Elevations, as Vorinism teaches them, could not have been part of the religion of the Knights, whatever that religion was called. I started suspecting that Callings and Elevations were instead echoes of an older religion of humanity. One where they worshiped Cultivation instead, as some Western countries still do.

If you read my descriptions of the Dawnshard Callings, you'll notice references to non-Vorin cultures. The female Reshi kings. The extremely high regard for Shin farmers. I suspect Brandon put those weird things there as hints, echoes of that older culture.

It doesn't really matter if Dawnshards had some of Honor's ability to bind things, or even if some Dawnshards were more attuned to Honor (as I implied with the Calling of Scribes). After all, we see Cultivation's influences on Rosharan Surgebinding. But the Knights Radiant speak oaths, and they as an organization were founded by a Herald of Honor, and their Surge pairs were based on the Surge pairs of the Honorblades, which contain parts of Honor's own soul. So I consider Honorblades and Knights Radiant to be of Honor.

In the same way, if my Callings and Elevations theory about Dawnshards is correct, that system is of Cultivation because they align with Cultivation's intent, as I described above.

 


Reason 3: Surges

As for the idea that the Dawnshards might not be from any Shards in particular, that would mean Ashyn was a minor Shardworld even during the era of Dawnshards. We know that it currently doesn't have a Shard, and so basically it's a minor Shardworld now, but look at how Brandon describes minor Shardworlds:

Quote

Questioner
What differentiates a minor Shardworld like First of the Sun?
...
Brandon Sanderson
There is inherent investiture in every world created but you are going to see-- You aren't going to find Mistborn on a world like that but what you might find is a way there are magic aspects to the setting. Spren could exist on a world like that but they would be like the minor spren, you wouldn't find Syl, but you would find something like lifespren.

Knowing what we know of Dawnshards, that they gave people powerful Surges, could we really say that Ashyn was a minor Shardworld during that era? I don't think so. There must have been a Shard there that powered the Dawnshards.

Which leads us to Odium.

 


Reason 4: Corruption

Is it possible that Odium created the humans and the Dawnshards on Ashyn? I don't think so. Brandon said that a Shard Investing on a planet means they become stuck to that planet, and here's what he said about Odium:

Quote

Questioner
Did Odium originally have a planet he was Invested in?

Brandon Sanderson
Odium's plan always involved not getting stuck on one

This plan to "not get stuck" is presumably why Odium prefers to corrupt pre-existing Investiture instead of using his own manifestations. Considering that the Dawnshards existed before the Oathpact, I highly doubt that Odium would have Invested so much as to create humans and give them power on that planet.

And of course, Tanavast liked the Dawnshards. Why would he be fond of the enemy's creation?

In other words, the Dawnshards must have been corrupted by Odium. They (as well as the humans) must have been created by another Shard.

 


Reason 5: Slammer

This final reason is more of a feeling rather than an argument. I feel that people tend to underestimate Cultivation, perhaps because of her seeming lack of action. Even Stormfather accused her of cowardice, of hiding from Odium. For me it feels too easy to assume that the Dawnshards, those powerful weapons that led to the destruction of a whole planet, could not have come from her.

Hoid calls her Slammer.

Earlier, I talked of Cultivation's failure with the Dawnshards on Ashyn. I will admit that I first imagined her helplessly watching as her planet burned, before fleeing to the safety of her husband's arms.

Hoid calls her SLAMMER.

Here's an alternative, rather fanciful, and completely speculative scenario for you:

Honor and Cultivation, Shards and lovers, ruled the Rosharan system. They both Invested equally on Roshar. They both Invested on Ashyn, except Cultivation used more of her power there, for her own reasons. Roshar already had the parsh, so they created the humans on Ashyn in their image. The first Ashynite men by Honor, the first Ashynite women by Cultivation.

Honor liked Roshar because its harsh environment made the native inhabitants strong and resilient, and he spent most of his time there. Cultivation liked the more Yolen-like Ashyn because it was easier to cultivate life there as she desired, and tended to stay there in turn. Both contributed to each other's Shardic projects, the Dawnsingers and the Dawnshards. The Tranquiline Halls were happily tranquil. The highstorms were happily tempestuous. Everything was great.

Then Odium, bearing divine jealousy and hatred, arrived to destroy them. Predictably, he targeted the seemingly weaker female Vessel first, corrupting the humans and their Dawnshards. Like on other worlds he visited, Odium didn't plan to destroy Ashyn, but rather to simply corrupt the Investiture enough to kill Cultivation. Soon, many humans started worshiping the new god, believing in his gospel of passion, and using corrupted Surges: the Voids. Chaos and passion reigned.

SLAM!

With just enough warning for her faithful followers, Slammer unleashed divine justice. She held the power of both life and death, and she will cut down trees that bear no fruit. The angry goddess took hold of her corrupted Splinters, the ones that gave men Dawnshards, and Unmade them, ripping her own Investiture from them and leaving behind weakened shells of Odium's.

(She had another major Splinter on Ashyn, the tenth, but they had no corruption, for Squires had no Dawnshard. Cultivation took them with her later on to join their siblings on Roshar.)

She then engaged in all out war, with devastating consequences for both the apostate planet and the invading Shard. Odium almost didn't survive the assault. He was permanently hurt.

Quote

To fight directly might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before. Those scars do not heal.

The Broken One managed to escape with the humans going to Roshar, but was ultimately outwitted by Honor and his Heralds. When Honor died, Cultivation went on her own silent war against the clever and now more wary god of hatred, and has been waging it ever since:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Odium has a fully-living, fully-aware, and very powerful Shard opposing him.

Again, this last reason is more of a feeling than an argument. It was the imagery of Vengeful Slammer that led me to develop the theory. I know it's far-fetched, but I decided to put it here in case anyone else likes it.

 


I'm sorry I didn't initially give my justifications. But as you can see, they're pretty lengthy, and would have bloated the initial post. I hope you guys understand.
 

Edited by skaa
6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do like the idea of there being a Cultivation based Investiture system in place on Ashyn, since the magic system of Silence Divine can be argued to be very attuned towards her Intent. Cultivation's magic can't just be fabrials. The Dawnshards belonging to Cultivation is not one I've ever seen before.

Loved the Vorinism connect btw, :lol:

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@skaa Oh. Ok it makes sense now I really like that. I'm starting to get into your headspace on this theory!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@skaa

Thats a good well thought out theory. Nice read first thing in the morning 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21/01/2020 at 2:17 PM, skaa said:

Since the Oathpact and the Immortal Words are of Honor, it's not that far-fetched to speculate that Dawnshards were originally from Cultivation

Hasn’t anyone noticed that the parish/singers were originally called ‘dawn singers’?

so... where do the dawn shards come from?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@skaa I really think your on to something with the callings! Especially if it’s a cultivation planet. Ashyn is confirmed to be a ‘base 10’ magic system. You have only referenced 9 callings...

Is that how odium corrupted the Ashyn? 

Wheres the 10th?

If the magic system on ashyn started as callings how did odium corrupt it into disease?

i can see how diseases and cultivation can be linked but not how that connects with callings...

i can see how callings and cultivation are linked. Personal growth, nurturing skills, etc

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope you don't find this in poor taste but I think it is important to give critical feedback on theories.  I expect sharders to do the same thing to my theories so that I can make better ones in the future.  That being said I think I may have found a couple mistakes or at least problems with your theory.

On 1/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, skaa said:

Here's a question: Is Vorinism really what Honor would have wanted from those who worshiped him? Sure, it seems benign enough as a religion. (I mean, aside from the militarism and the sexism...) But notice how modern Alethi religion, i.e. post-Nohadon and post-Recreance, doesn't preach about oath-keeping or following codes. Rather, they focus on making you the best of who you already are.

Oaths are very important to Vorins.  Think about their marriage customs.

On 1/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, skaa said:

As for the idea that the Dawnshards might not be from any Shards in particular, that would mean Ashyn was a minor Shardworld even during the era of Dawnshards. We know that it currently doesn't have a Shard, and so basically it's a minor Shardworld now, but look at how Brandon describes minor Shardworlds:

The greater Rosharan system had at least two shards on it.  This may have been enough.

On 1/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, skaa said:

Dawnshards existed before the Oathpact (the actual thing that trapped Odium in the Rosharan system),

The oathpact trapped the fused not Odium.

On 1/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, skaa said:

And of course, Tanavast liked the Dawnshards. Why would he be fond of the enemy's creation?

He never claimed to like them only that they were useful and perhaps vital for human survival.  It would be poetic justice if Odum's defeat came at the hands of his own creation.

On 1/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, skaa said:

. I feel that people tend to underestimate Cultivation, perhaps because of her seeming lack of action

That may be a sentiment on Roshar but I don't really think it is one on the shard considering the number of Cultivation based theories I have seen around.

Edited by Karger
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.