KelStormblessed Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 I’m currently rereading WoR. During the prologue it features Jasnah during the feast where Gavilar is assassinated. There’s a moment where her shadow is going the wrong way. I know she has had her episodes of lunacy in the past. I don’t think the shadow is necessarily that. I think it’s Ivory, her inkspren. I don’t know much about inkspren forms, but I assume they can puddle into basic shapes like a shadow. Her shadow seems to be pointing towards the sphere lanterns. I’m wondering if this has to do with her being in an order that deals heavily with Shadesmar and her becoming bonded to Ivory. Kinda similar to how Syl played tricks on Kaladin before gaining full sentience. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Her shadow is specifically moving towards the source of light rather than away from it like it should be. We know that Siah Aimians have shadows that behave the same way. Brandon has confirmed that they're happening for the same reason: Quote Skaiiwalker (paraphrased) Do Axies's and Jasnah's reversed shadows have a common source? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes. Skaiiwalker (paraphrased) Does it have anything to do with its draw towards Investiture? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) *After a pause* It has more to do with Shadesmar than Investiture. Teen Author Boot Camp (April 11, 2015) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, KelStormblessed said: I’m currently rereading WoR. During the prologue it features Jasnah during the feast where Gavilar is assassinated. There’s a moment where her shadow is going the wrong way. I know she has had her episodes of lunacy in the past. I don’t think the shadow is necessarily that. I think it’s Ivory, her inkspren. I don’t know much about inkspren forms, but I assume they can puddle into basic shapes like a shadow. Her shadow seems to be pointing towards the sphere lanterns. I’m wondering if this has to do with her being in an order that deals heavily with Shadesmar and her becoming bonded to Ivory. Kinda similar to how Syl played tricks on Kaladin before gaining full sentience. Any thoughts? Shadows go backwards in the CR. We know this from Oathbringer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelStormblessed Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 45 minutes ago, Karger said: Shadows go backwards in the CR. We know this from Oathbringer. Exactly. I made that point. Her shadow was backwards in the prologue of WoR... she wasn’t in the cognitive realm. She was in a hallway in Kholinar palace. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 39 minutes ago, KelStormblessed said: Exactly. I made that point. Her shadow was backwards in the prologue of WoR... she wasn’t in the cognitive realm. She was in a hallway in Kholinar palace. She is is seeing her CR shadow as she is being pulled into that realm by Ivory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoWibble Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 10 hours ago, KelStormblessed said: Exactly. I made that point. Her shadow was backwards in the prologue of WoR... she wasn’t in the cognitive realm. She was in a hallway in Kholinar palace. She was experimenting in the CR at that time, right? wasn't that when she learned how to form stuff out of beads? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelStormblessed Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, GoWibble said: She was experimenting in the CR at that time, right? wasn't that when she learned how to form stuff out of beads? Right afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelStormblessed Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 11 hours ago, Karger said: She is is seeing her CR shadow as she is being pulled into that realm by Ivory. There’s a part right before she shifts into Shadesmar. Her shadow turns into the ink spren. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 And we know it's possible for people with access to Transformation to be partially in the Cognitive while still mostly in the Physical, so I'm not sure why this is such an issue for you. Her shadow was behaving weirdly because she was in the process of being drawn there. Also, please don't double-post, use the edit function instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelStormblessed Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Weltall said: And we know it's possible for people with access to Transformation to be partially in the Cognitive while still mostly in the Physical, so I'm not sure why this is such an issue for you. Her shadow was behaving weirdly because she was in the process of being drawn there. Also, please don't double-post, use the edit function instead. What do you mean? I think you are the one not seeing what’s going on. Everyone is saying it’s because she’s partially in Shadesmar. I’m pointing out the fact that that may not be the case at all. There’s nothing confirmed on WoB saying it’s because it’s her shadow in Shadesmar. In the scene there are multiple shadows that form into inkspren. As I’ve said earlier I am trying to determine whether her shadow is in fact because of shadesmar or because it isn’t her shadow and is instead her Inkspren, ivory. I bring this up, because these things didn’t happen with Shallan as well. We don’t see her shadow acting strangely, while still in the PR. Just saying it could be possible it is her spren messing with her shadows. Because the split as well. Edited January 19, 2020 by KelStormblessed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Shard Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 However, Elsecallers are the "prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren; and the Lightweavers and Willshapers both also had an affinity to the same, though neither were true masters of that realm." In other words, Elsecallers have not one but two surges that function mostly through Shadesmar and have a far greater affinity for it than Lightweavers do. WoB states that for Jasnah, Quote "One of her powers is called Elsecalling, which is basically popping in and out of Shadesmar more easily. It's hard for everyone else to do that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 hours ago, KelStormblessed said: We don’t see her shadow acting strangely, while still in the PR. Just saying it could be possible it is her spren messing with her shadows. Because the split as well. Shallan is as @18th Shard pointed out of a less CR centered order. Additionally she is trying to avoid knowledge of her own radiance so she would purposefully miss those kinds of details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, KelStormblessed said: What do you mean? I think you are the one not seeing what’s going on. Everyone is saying it’s because she’s partially in Shadesmar. I’m pointing out the fact that that may not be the case at all. There’s nothing confirmed on WoB saying it’s because it’s her shadow in Shadesmar. In the scene there are multiple shadows that form into inkspren. As I’ve said earlier I am trying to determine whether her shadow is in fact because of shadesmar or because it isn’t her shadow and is instead her Inkspren, ivory. I bring this up, because these things didn’t happen with Shallan as well. We don’t see her shadow acting strangely, while still in the PR. Just saying it could be possible it is her spren messing with her shadows. Because the split as well. Totally get your interpretation. I am just stating the order I read things and why I believe as I do. First Jasnah sees the shadow point towards the lamp. Then it goes back to normal. She runs into Amaram and Gavilar. Speaks with them. Then she continues. Her shadow then points the wrong direction again. Then several distant shadows (not the one attached to her), lengthen and form into figures standing. One takes the shape of a man and he strode towards her with an unsheathed sword. Jasnah then falls among the beads, regains control, makes a raft of beads. The lead spren then comes back for her. She summons the form of a statue with a sword. The lead spren then sheathes his sword, bows and touches his forehead with his fingers as a sign of respect. At no point did Jasnah's personal shadow form into anything. That scene leads me to believe the lead spren was Ivory. This leads me to believe that Jasnah's personal shadow was just reacting to the cognitive realm. However I acknowledge that it could be said that the lead spren was not Ivory, and that Ivory was still hidden in Jasnah's shadow. Though it is later stated that Ivory is the only one of his kind to want to have anything to do with humans. So if that is the case, then why would an ink spren other than Ivory treat Jasnah with respect? It could also be said maybe the lead spren is ivory, and ivory was manipulating Jasnah's shadow from afar. Personally I do not think this is within Ink's spren power wheelhouse, but as we know very little about spren, I cannot really say that definitively. So TLDR, I am personally opting for the simpler answer being Jasnah's shadow just pointed the wrong way because in the cognitive realm, shadows point towards the cognitive "sun", and we see with Aimians that is their natural state. But I acknowledge the scene could be interpreted in other ways. Edited January 20, 2020 by Pathfinder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 19 hours ago, KelStormblessed said: What do you mean? I think you are the one not seeing what’s going on. Everyone is saying it’s because she’s partially in Shadesmar. I’m pointing out the fact that that may not be the case at all. There’s nothing confirmed on WoB saying it’s because it’s her shadow in Shadesmar. In the scene there are multiple shadows that form into inkspren. As I’ve said earlier I am trying to determine whether her shadow is in fact because of shadesmar or because it isn’t her shadow and is instead her Inkspren, ivory. I bring this up, because these things didn’t happen with Shallan as well. We don’t see her shadow acting strangely, while still in the PR. Just saying it could be possible it is her spren messing with her shadows. Because the split as well. If Im understanding your question, then the option on the table are A) it's because of Shadesmar Shenanigans or B) it's because of Inkspren Bond Shenanigans, is that correct? If so, then I think the WOB @Weltall goes pretty far to confirming that it is Option A. Unless we learn that there is some specific connection between the Saih Amian's and the Inkspren that would be shared by a Randiant bonding to one, then by process of elimination it's most likely related to the fact that both are somehow Closer to Shadesmar, at least under the right circumstances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWadehart Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) On 1/19/2020 at 2:24 PM, KelStormblessed said: I bring this up, because these things didn’t happen with Shallan as well. We don’t see her shadow acting strangely, while still in the PR. Just saying it could be possible it is her spren messing with her shadows. Because the split as well. I dont think that is strictly accurate. For one thing Shallan, Ehlokar AND Gaz have all seen full bodied Cryptics prior to gaining surgbinding. Each in their own way. Shallan in Kharbranth when she autodraws, Ehlokar in mirrors and Gaz to the side of his missing eye. AND/OR Second, don't forget that this isnt Shallann's first go round with Pattern. Who knows what she saw when she was a child? Edited January 21, 2020 by TheWadehart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelStormblessed Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 hours ago, TheWadehart said: I dont think that is strictly accurate. For one thing Shallan, Ehlokar AND Gaz have all seen full bodied Cryptics prior to gaining surgbinding. Each in their own way. Shallan in Kharbranth when she autodraws, Ehlokar in mirrors and Gaz to the side of his missing eye. AND/OR Second, don't forget that this isnt Shallann's first go round with Pattern. Who knows what she saw when she was a child? Absolutely. What I meant about Shallan was the shadows specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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