[Oathbringer] The Heart of the Revel and Time Dilation

[teknopathetic]

I was doing a re-listen of Oathbringer and noticed something I haven’t seen spoken of on the forums yet.

When the special ops team storms the palace of Kholinar, they free some guards who had been locked away in a room. The guard claim that only a few days had passed and that they had only been fed around three times. However, the guards had been in there for weeks, had grown large beards, and by all accounts should have starved to death or become sick from their living conditions. The guards were in fighting condition, seemed lucid and sane, and were shocked to discover how much time had passed. So what gives? The weirdest thing is that the men reached down and were shocked to discover that they now had long beards (proving how much time had occurred). What isn't clear is if these men were simply unaware of their beard while in the dark room (seems odd but okay), or if those beard grew quickly once the door was opened. 

A connected oddity is Shallan seeing healthy looking food swarming in rot spren. The food should have wasted away but it had remained in tact.  I assumed the food was tainted in some other way, but what if time was acting oddly and the food had not yet realized it was rotten in the physical realm quite yet? Similar to how the men hadn't realized they'd grown beards while trapped in the room?

I wonder if the Heart of the Revel has the ability to preserve and protect anything within a certain radius. It might accomplish this by slowing down time in a unique way, or at least the perception of time in the cognitive realm? I am not sure how to consolidate the experience of 3 days with the growth of a beard for three weeks. Anyone have any thoughts? 

Edited January 19, 2020 by teknopathetic

[Gilphon]

There's certainly some kind of weird time stuff going on in the palace- and we also never got an explanation for why the Royal Guard was acting so weird and emotionless.

And I'm pretty sure we can safely say that both those things were caused by the Unmade. So the question becomes 'which one'? And I agree with you that Ashertmarn seems like the most likely candidate for the time dilation- messing with one's sense of time would be on-brand for him, and the effect doesn't seem to be targeted or directed, so it fits with a mindless Unmade. Which by elimination, would suggest Yelig-Nar is responsible for the Royal Guard- which would fit with the epigraph about him eating souls, and on thematically they could very well be the 'squires' to the main host's 'Radiant'. So that's what I believe is going on that front.

But I also feel the need to bring up two alternative theories: 

• The effects saw in Kholinar may be 'resonances' of a kind- they might be the result of the Unmade powers overlapping with each other- perhaps they can do things when working together that they can't do individually. But if that's the case, there'd be one more weird effect happening in Kholinar. If, for example, the effects we saw were the Ashertmarn/Yelig-nar and Yelig-nar/Sja-Anat resonances, there should also be an Ashertmarn/Sja-Anat resonance somewhere, right? Although, now that I say that, perhaps that's how Sja-Anat was able to corrupt the Oathgate spren, since she's not able to that normally.
• Perhaps there were more Unmade in Kholinar than we realized; it's possible that the time dilation and Royal Guard were caused by a fourth Unmade.

[Halyo_Alex]

35 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

There's certainly some kind of weird time stuff going on in the palace- and we also never got an explanation for why the Royal Guard was acting so weird and emotionless.

And I'm pretty sure we can safely say that both those things were caused by the Unmade. So the question becomes 'which one'? And I agree with you that Ashertmarn seems like the most likely candidate for the time dilation- messing with one's sense of time would be on-brand for him, and the effect doesn't seem to be targeted or directed, so it fits with a mindless Unmade. Which by elimination, would suggest Yelig-Nar is responsible for the Royal Guard- which would fit with the epigraph about him eating souls, and on thematically they could very well be the 'squires' to the main host's 'Radiant'. So that's what I believe is going on that front.

But I also feel the need to bring up two alternative theories: 

• The effects saw in Kholinar may be 'resonances' of a kind- they might be the result of the Unmade powers overlapping with each other- perhaps they can do things when working together that they can't do individually. But if that's the case, there'd be one more weird effect happening in Kholinar. If, for example, the effects we saw were the Ashertmarn/Yelig-nar and Yelig-nar/Sja-Anat resonances, there should also be an Ashertmarn/Sja-Anat resonance somewhere, right? Although, now that I say that, perhaps that's how Sja-Anat was able to corrupt the Oathgate spren, since she's not able to that normally.
• Perhaps there were more Unmade in Kholinar than we realized; it's possible that the time dilation and Royal Guard were caused by a fourth Unmade.

Oh storms, Unmade resonances. That just has "nope" written all over it (in the terrifying sense, not the "this is definitely false" sense. This seems terrifyingly possible).

Hmm... Makes me wonder about Thaylen Field, with Nergaoul and Yelig-nar, then. Was there a new effect present for them? Maybe Sadeas's men that were overcome with the Thrill? Hmm...

[Karger]

7 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Hmm... Makes me wonder about Thaylen Field, with Nergaoul and Yelig-nar, then. Was there a new effect present for them? Maybe Sadeas's men that were overcome with the Thrill? Hmm...

Nergaoul arrived only after the thrill.  Also he does not seem to have an aoe the way other unmade do additionally Odium would certain have been able to do something like that prior it all it took were two unmade and singer reactions and Ash indicate that this is a first time.

[Solant]

I always pictured the revel having a lotus eater kind of effect on everyone in its area of influence, willing participant or not

[Karger]

52 minutes ago, Solant said:

I always pictured the revel having a lotus eater kind of effect on everyone in its area of influence, willing participant or not

Perhaps he also keeps people from dying so that they can waste more food and cause more confusion and mismanagement.

[TheWadehart]

Also oddly enough there is another time dilation effect. Shallan thinks about the fact that the spheres are still retaining light long after they should have gone dunn. I can't recall if the thought was before or after the Re-shephir banishment. . 

 

I also have a vague memory of (WoB?) concentrated investiture causing time dilaton.

Edited January 21, 2020 by TheWadehart

[Zapata]

14 minutes ago, TheWadehart said:

I also have a vague memory of (WoB?) concentrated investiture causing time dilaton.

I can't recall it off the top of my head, but it was about how Worldhoppers extend their lifespans, right?

Edit: found it

Quote

Questioner

I was just curious about how time works for worldhoppers.

Brandon Sanderson

So worldhoppers' time is going to pass normally unless they can stay near to large collections of Investiture. They can warp time in the same way that gravity, large masses, can warp time.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

  Edited January 21, 2020 by Bearer of Agonies

[Agent34]

On 1/19/2020 at 5:34 PM, Karger said:

Nergaoul arrived only after the thrill.  Also he does not seem to have an aoe the way other unmade do additionally Odium would certain have been able to do something like that prior it all it took were two unmade and singer reactions and Ash indicate that this is a first time.

Nergaoul would have to be present for someone to experience the Thrill as that is the AoE ability.

[Karger]

Just now, Agent34 said:

Nergaoul would have to be present for someone to experience the Thrill as that is the AoE ability.

I meant Yalig-nar.  I get the names confused

[Bookish Ocelot]

Maybe the time dilation affects the cognitive realm only?

For example, the time would slow down for the mind of an object, sometimes bleeding into the  physical identity like soulcasting does. (Soulcasting requires the convincing of one thing to become another, therefore using the cognitive to affect the physical)

This would explain why the spheres would hold stormlight longer - they think that little time has passed. The guards would also think that no time has passed - and require less food/water. However, I can't find a way to explain the beards. 

@ me if this makes no sense!

[TheWadehart]

BEARDS are weird

14 hours ago, Ookla the Ocelot said:

However, I can't find a way to explain the beards. 

@ me if this makes no sense!

 

[Aon Tia]

Very interesting ideas @teknopathetic and @Gilphon Now that I have read about it, something really weird is indeed going on with time specially around the palace and the oathgate platform! Earlier I had thought that the people on oathgate were simply in a trance like state but since the trapped soldiers were also confused about time, yes, I think some time dilation is going on. 

On 1/20/2020 at 0:05 AM, Karger said:

Perhaps he also keeps people from dying so that they can waste more food and cause more confusion and mismanagement.

Yup seems very plausible. And may be he kept the soldiers from dying also because he was convinced that he will eventually break them and they will join his revel. 
 

@Gilphon oh man!! The idea of unmade resonances is terrifying but makes so much sense at the same time. I mean why not!

[Karger]

9 hours ago, The traveller said:

Yup seems very plausible. And may be he kept the soldiers from dying also because he was convinced that he will eventually break them and they will join his revel. 

Also to prevent low level riots of disruptions from stopping the party until it had reached full on crazy level.

[+Q10fanatic]

So, does anyone have a clear understanding of how Time interacts with Realmatic aspects of the cosmere? We know that the Physical realm and Cognitive realms both feel time pass in a recognizable fashion to the humans. Time doesn't matter in the Spiritual realm, right? Or its all times and all places? There is some kind of Spiritual mumbo jumbo with Time. 

So does that mean that the Heart of the Revel is affecting people on a Spiritual level? Or does he have sufficient investiture to slow down time over a large radius simply because he's an unmade? That doesn't make sense to me, we haven't seen time dilation outside of world hopping before now, have we?

[teknopathetic]

On 1/22/2020 at 10:28 AM, Q10fanatic said:

So, does anyone have a clear understanding of how Time interacts with Realmatic aspects of the cosmere? We know that the Physical realm and Cognitive realms both feel time pass in a recognizable fashion to the humans. Time doesn't matter in the Spiritual realm, right? Or its all times and all places? There is some kind of Spiritual mumbo jumbo with Time. 

So does that mean that the Heart of the Revel is affecting people on a Spiritual level? Or does he have sufficient investiture to slow down time over a large radius simply because he's an unmade? That doesn't make sense to me, we haven't seen time dilation outside of world hopping before now, have we?

The effect might work like Cadmium bubbles (slowing down time for people inside the area). I am not sure if that ability is cognitive or spiritual, though. 

 

Edit: it could even be physical, as speed and time are connected in our realm. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by teknopathetic

[+Q10fanatic]

 

1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

The effect might work like Cadmium bubbles (slowing down time for people inside the area). I am not sure if that ability is cognitive or spiritual, though. 

I'd forgotten about the time bubbles in Era 2. That's a good point.