Nit Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 Hello, I've just find this WoB on arcanum, basically saying that we've missed things inside the stormlight pieces of art, especially in the circles of the characters, which are supposed to predict the future of the story. What are you thinking about it, what is hidden just under our eyes? Grant Willis Are there any clues or easter eggs in Roshar/the cosmere that have not been discovered yet? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, but they're not ones that you should be able to discover. They'll just be things that you'll able to look back at. We embed some things here and there in the art, like the lastclap that was in foreshadowed in the margins of one of the art pieces in the first book, with someone catching a Shardblade. For instance, a lot of the little circles for characters at the start of the stories represent things that will happen much later in the series, but most of them are intentionally zoomed in of what the shot would be so that you can't tell right now, because these are not things that you're supposed to be able to figure out. Most things that I intended for you to figure out, you did, and some that I didn't intend you to figure out, you also did. So people can feel very proud of that. Yes, there are a bunch of easter eggs, there are a ton of them, but there is no way you can figure out what they are. YouTube Livestream (Jan. 11, 2020) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unodus Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 this thread still blows my mind a lil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Taln's chapter heading (nine lights above a mountain, possibly the Honorblades) is probably Proving Day and he was the odd Herald out. Could also be Aharietiam, with Taln's Honorblade missing, with the other Heralds abandoning the Oathpact and their Honorblades, although, if I recall correctly, the blades were placed in a circular formation then Jasnah's chapter heading... I'm not sure what that is. Possibly a depiction of Shadesmar. This was also the Shallan chapter heading in WoK & beginning of WoR Kaladin's chapter heading: spears, which connects well with him, I don't recognize the glyph on the flag though, I'm not good at recognizing those, hmm... @Pagerunner, a little help? Szeth's chapter heading portrays him as the Assassin in White Shallan's chapter heading is our good ol' cutie, Pattern Lift's chapter heading is food. Nuff said. Eshonai's chapter heading depicts her standing in Shardplate & carrying a Shardblade, standing in front of a storm (we see it's significance in WoR) Venli's chapter heading depicts her with her back to a storm, holding a ball of light, probably Timbre Navani's chapter heading shows a glowing gemstone or a fabrial Dalinar's chapter heading shows the Kholin coat-of-arms, it was shared with Adolin before diverging in WoR Adolin's chapter heading shows him in full battle regalia in a stance, probably mid-duel or practice Bridge 4 umbrella chapter heading shows the bridge 4 patch Moash/Vyre's chapter heading shows the torn Bridge 4 patch We don't yet have a Renarin or Shalash chapter heading So, Jasnah & Navani's chapter headings are the ones we really don't know about Edited February 13, 2020 by Honorless missing commas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) The glyph in question: The line down the center is something we've only seen with Highprince glyphs. (We do see simplified versions of these glyphs, where components are omitted, smoothed, merged while maintaining the same general shape.) Kholin would be the one I'd expect, but the KH symbol is inverted with respect to the centerline. We do see simplified versions of many of these glyphs, and Bethab is the one it looks the most like to me, oddly enough. Of course, it's always possible we get a new Highprince at some point who would need their own glyph... Edited February 10, 2020 by Pagerunner I have never succesfully attached an image on my first try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: The glyph in question: The line down the center is something we've only seen with Highprince glyphs. (We do see simplified versions of these glyphs, where components are omitted, smoothed, merged while maintaining the same general shape.) Kholin would be the one I'd expect, but the KH symbol is inverted with respect to the centerline. We do see simplified versions of many of these glyphs, and Bethab is the one it looks the most like to me, oddly enough. Of course, it's always possible we get a new Highprince at some point who would need their own glyph... Was rereading a scene, oathbringer page 1089 when i saw this: Navani strode along the wall walk toward Fen. Below, Amaram’s troops flew the new Sadeas banner: the axe and the tower, white on forest green. It looks like kholin, so there is the tower (kholin includes a tower), and doesn't sadeas include a hammer? Hammer and ax might have similar shaping. Could the spears also be foreshadowing to the convo kaladin has with amaram about forging the spear that didn't break? Edited February 10, 2020 by Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 1/15/2020 at 5:51 PM, Honorless said: Jasnah's chapter heading... I'm not sure what that is. This was also the Shallan chapter heading in WoK, before the two headings were separated I always thought that Jasnah’s chapter heading shows Shadesmar Sun, seeing as she is an elsecaller it fits too. interesting stuff about kaladin’s chapter heading. So he may become an Alethkar Highprince some time in the future? I have also always wondered if the faces we see, which I assume are heralds, have any significance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 All hail Highprince Stormblessed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Honorless said: All hail Highprince Stormblessed! Suddenly I know where I would like to shift if I ever get to live in Cosmere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) On 2/10/2020 at 10:35 AM, The Traveller said: I have also always wondered if the faces we see, which I assume are heralds, have any significance They are thematic Quote sectoidfodder I've wondered whether the portraits in chapter headings have some deeper significance. Some of them correspond well to the contents of the chapters... "The Four" is the first chapter to have four different portraits - Jezrien, Ash, Ishar, and Pailiah, representing the Radiant orders that Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, and Renarin belong to, respectively. Vedel's portrait appears before Ym's and Lift's interludes (this suggests that Ym's other power was abrasion, just like Lift). Battar's portrait for Jasnah's pov prologue; Battar's and Wit's portraits for the epilogue where Jasnah and Wit are the only characters. Most others just seem random/unrelated: Kaladin's earliest chapters in WoK were headed by Taln's portrait. Eshonai's and Szeth's interludes have a variety of different Herald portraits, seemingly at random. Taln's own interlude features Wit and Chach, of all things. Peter Ahlstrom The correspondence can be from any column on the essences table in the Ars Arcanum, or a few columns that are not on the publicly revealed table. Phantine Is there a row for when Hoid's portrait will show up? Peter Ahlstrom They are not actually portraits of those characters. But there's not a row for the Masked Man. General Reddit 2014 (March 10, 2014) Quote General Reddit 2017 (Nov. 22, 2017)#1Nov. 22, 2017 Lurcher Here are the lists of things that I've noticed could be reasons why certain Herald images get chosen. I also picked up on alot of this stuff because the folks over at Tor have done a WoR re-read and have a dedicated "Heraldic Symbolism" subsection they devote for each chapter. They speculate as to why the specific herald(s) were chosen. Specifically Alice Arneson (one of the re-readers) has seemingly done some good research into this, so I'll give her credit for a lot of this. I mostly listed these out for my own reference as I've been meaning to do so (since I usually keep them in my head when figuring this out when reading). Herald themselves (mentioned, talked about, or actually has an appearance) Some object associated with a herald (example: A specific herald's honorblade) Member of Order (ex: Kaladin=Windrunners=Jezrien) Characters portraying divine attribute behavior (example: Loving and Healing) Characters portraying the inverse of divine attribute behavior (example: Hating and Destroying) Herald of <concept> - things associated with that concept. Known examples: 1) Shalash: Herald of Beauty 2) Nalan: Herald of Justice 3) Jezrien: Herald of Kings 4) Taln: Herald of War 5) Ishar: Herald of Luck Roles associated with a herald Known Examples: 1)Chana: Guards 2)Taln: Soldiers/war 3)Ishar: Ardents/religion 4)Vedel: Physicians Essences (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Ten_Essences ): Essence, body focus, Soulcasting properties...(this one is a stretch as I've never really could pinpoint this well enough) Jester/Masked face (as mentioned in other posts on this thread). This can be tied to chapters with Wit them or tied to concepts related to him, the biggest one (I think) being storytelling. How'd I do? Note: I loved the "Four Lifetimes" chapter's heraldic symbolism in Oathbringer (I'm a little over halfway through the book), but I thought that was great showing the different roles/lives Kaladin has filled: Surgeon (Vedel), Soldier (Taln), Guard (Chana), and Leader/Windrunner (Jezrien). Bravo. Peter Ahlstrom How did you do? Pretty much a home run. There's only one thing you're missing, which you may have implied, and that's the gemstones. Also, there's a little bit more to #5 that will be explored further later in the series. Your "Four Lifetimes" analysis is spot-on. Congratulations. Quote Questioner You know the artwork... the arches with the faces? What are those? Brandon Sanderson Those are each of the Heralds. And those archways, Isaac picks based on what he thinks the themes of the chapter are. I don't pick which faces go on there. He reads the chapter... he tries to align what's happening with the emotions represented by the various characters. Questioner And the thing underneath it is? Brandon Sanderson Generally the symbol of the viewpoint character. But those shift. Like for instance we sometimes start with a general one, and as the characters get more individual we add ones specifically for them. Usually you'll have one that's the viewpoint character, and then like for instance the ones for Jasnah and Shallan split apart when originally they just had one, and stuff like that. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018) Quote Questioner The arches in The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. The faces in the arches, are they dependent on something that happens in the chapter, or are they random or is there a pattern? Brandon Sanderson They do, but Isaac picks them, not me. So. There is a rubric for it, but-- so there is some significance, but Isaac is behind that. Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014) These arches over the chapter headings also depict, aside from the ten Heralds, the double eye of the Almighty and a jester For reference, here are all the chapter headings that we've seen so far: Adolin Bridge Four Lopen, Teft, Skar, Rock, Sigzil, Rlain Dalinar Eshonai Interlude* The Divine Prism, with ten facets representing each of the Heralds, comprised of the Double Eye of the Almighty, symbol of the ancient Knights Radiant Jasnah originally Shallan & Jasnah Kaladin Lift Moash Navani Shallan Szeth Taln Venli As of Oathbringer, we haven't yet seen the chapter headings of: Renarin Shalash The decal sword version of the Double Eye which appeared on Interlude or multiple PoV chapters. I can't think of a reason why certain chapters had the decal and certain chapters had the prism. To be honest, I don't remember which chapter had which or if one of them supplanted the other going from WoK to WoR to OB Interlude* Below are what appear on the arches: Jester The Heralds Double Eye of the Almighty Note: I did this on my phone, so sorry if it appears weird on your computer Edited March 18, 2020 by Dreamer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 12 hours ago, Pathfinder said: Was rereading a scene, oathbringer page 1089 when i saw this: Navani strode along the wall walk toward Fen. Below, Amaram’s troops flew the new Sadeas banner: the axe and the tower, white on forest green. It looks like kholin, so there is the tower (kholin includes a tower), and doesn't sadeas include a hammer? Hammer and ax might have similar shaping. Could the spears also be foreshadowing to the convo kaladin has with amaram about forging the spear that didn't break? Glyphpairs and glyphs are two different concepts. A family will utilize a glyphpair which are two glyphs using some components in the name (like khokh and linil for Kholin). The glyphpairs among different members of a highprince's family get stylized differently; Elhokar and Dalinar both have khokh and linil, but Elhokar uses sword/crown, while Dalinar uses tower/crown. That's a similar change that happened with Amaram and Sadeas; tower/hammer and tower/axe, the new glyphpair is visually distinct from the old one. Each glyph in the glyphpair can wind up looking however the individual wants; the name of the glyph determines what components can be used to construct it, but the artists who make the glyphs that form the glyphpair have freedom to make the overall image look like something distinctive. These glyphpairs wind up on banners and such, where it will make them easy to identify to people who don't need to be familiar with glyph components and how they're made. The highprince glyph, on the other hand, is a single glyph, and it is based on the family name. (The most complicated versions we see have every single letter, none excluded.) These are the ones I posted above. I don't think we see them described too often in the books, but they appear on maps; the camp map in Way of Kings, and the Battle of Narak map in Words of Radiance. They appear to be a more information-dense way of referring to highprinces. They're not as easy to distinguish; they all kind of look the same to me on first glance. But they'll take up less space than a glyphpair, so it seems scholars will use them to annotate maps. All that to say, there is only one glyph on the cape, so it's not a glyphpair. And it's not distinctively shaped like something else; the glyphpair we see in Dalinar's chapter heading is immediately recognizable as a tower and a crown. The spears themselves don't appear to be made out of glyph components, so I think they're an actual part of whatever this scene is that's being depicted. (It looks to me like a highprince has fallen, his cape is tied to a spear as a makeshift banner, it's inspiring the other spearmen, and the whole thing is happening during an eclipse.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necessary Eagle Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Brandon has said a) that Kaladin's icon is a pivitol scene we haven't seen yet and b ) book four is going to have a Very Important scene that he's really excited to finally be able to show us. I personally suspect that the book four scene is going to finally be the banner scene. Edited March 22, 2020 by Necessary Eagle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Kaladins not part of the scene I think, Syl have a different spear tip than the ones in the picture. Edited February 10, 2020 by ScavellTane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Pagerunner said: Glyphpairs and glyphs are two different concepts. A family will utilize a glyphpair which are two glyphs using some components in the name (like khokh and linil for Kholin). The glyphpairs among different members of a highprince's family get stylized differently; Elhokar and Dalinar both have khokh and linil, but Elhokar uses sword/crown, while Dalinar uses tower/crown. That's a similar change that happened with Amaram and Sadeas; tower/hammer and tower/axe, the new glyphpair is visually distinct from the old one. Each glyph in the glyphpair can wind up looking however the individual wants; the name of the glyph determines what components can be used to construct it, but the artists who make the glyphs that form the glyphpair have freedom to make the overall image look like something distinctive. These glyphpairs wind up on banners and such, where it will make them easy to identify to people who don't need to be familiar with glyph components and how they're made. The highprince glyph, on the other hand, is a single glyph, and it is based on the family name. (The most complicated versions we see have every single letter, none excluded.) These are the ones I posted above. I don't think we see them described too often in the books, but they appear on maps; the camp map in Way of Kings, and the Battle of Narak map in Words of Radiance. They appear to be a more information-dense way of referring to highprinces. They're not as easy to distinguish; they all kind of look the same to me on first glance. But they'll take up less space than a glyphpair, so it seems scholars will use them to annotate maps. All that to say, there is only one glyph on the cape, so it's not a glyphpair. And it's not distinctively shaped like something else; the glyphpair we see in Dalinar's chapter heading is immediately recognizable as a tower and a crown. The spears themselves don't appear to be made out of glyph components, so I think they're an actual part of whatever this scene is that's being depicted. (It looks to me like a highprince has fallen, his cape is tied to a spear as a makeshift banner, it's inspiring the other spearmen, and the whole thing is happening during an eclipse.) So I will be the first and foremost to say I am woefully uninformed about the glyphs, and how they function. I will give some of the impressions or things I thought were the case, with questions included. I understand what you are saying regarding the separate glyph pairs looking like the thing (for lack of a better word at this time). That the glyph is literally put in almost a cut out of that symbol, like you said Tower and Crown for instance. But I thought with the highprince glyph, it had some freedom to be formed so long as it keeps the same basics for the name? For instance with kholin you could kind of see a tower and crown in that glyph, and when I look at the original sadeas glyph, it looks like a tower in some portions, and like a hammer in others (the top curves pointing outwards). I thought that Amaram would have the same main highprince glyph since he was the new sadeas, so he would keep the highprince glyph, but since his is the tower and the ax, they highprince glyph would have been altered slightly to reflect that. Didn't Nazh's explanation say there was a degree of artistic license? Then there would be the glyph pairs that make it more obvious. The writing on the banner does seem to be white to me, and forest green would come out as black in a black and white drawing. I guess I took the scene as more representative than literal. One spear above the rest. Tied to Amaram/his banner. The other spears at their center of their shaft, or near their base seem to be shattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Dalinar becomes the shield protecting Roshar (Roshar is the circle behind the shield). Also, he uses part of Urithiru as a rocket ship. The tower isn't broken, part of it is lifting off. Szeth is watching Shinovar be destroyed. Notice the grass behind him like they have in Shinovar. THESE ARE THE DAWNSHARDS, OBVIOUSLY!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 The Herald icons all have distinct line patterns for their background. They're made distinctive by the shapes of the lines, curvature, and thickness/frequency of the lines. Hoid/Jester's line patterns are extremely similar to Jezrien's though. I wonder if this is an easter egg hinting about some future or past relation of Hoid to Jezrien's position amongst the Heralds, especially now that Jezrien seems to have...left. Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 On 2/18/2020 at 5:53 AM, Subvisual Haze said: The Herald icons all have distinct line patterns for their background. They're made distinctive by the shapes of the lines, curvature, and thickness/frequency of the lines. Hoid/Jester's line patterns are extremely similar to Jezrien's though. I wonder if this is an easter egg hinting about some future or past relation of Hoid to Jezrien's position amongst the Heralds, especially now that Jezrien seems to have...left. Hide contents Similar, but not the same: the lines behind Hoid all radiate upwards diagonally whereas Jezrien's seem to be radiating out from a circle, or at least the top two are diagonal and the bottom two lie flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatbringer Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) On 2/10/2020 at 7:05 AM, Dreamer said: All hail Highprince Stormblessed! Vaguely off-topic: Has it been theorized that Kaladin could in fact be appointed Highprince Sadeas? He's now a lighteyes and a Radiant from Sadeas who are running seriously short on leadership? Edited March 18, 2020 by Goatbringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Goatbringer said: Vaguely off-topic: Has it been theorized that Kaladin could in fact be appointed Highprince Sadeas? He's now a lighteyes and a Radiant from Sadeas who are running seriously short on leadership? Kaladin technically already owns the land by the Windrunner River iirc, that's north of the Kholin Princedom and south of Aladar and Roion. Highprince Roion was killed in the Battle of Narak. If Kaladin were to become a Highprince, he could also succeed Roion. Though admittedly Sadeas is more likely thematically. There's also the fact that Kaladin was from that region and served under their military. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 6 hours ago, Goatbringer said: Vaguely off-topic: Has it been theorized that Kaladin could in fact be appointed Highprince Sadeas? He's now a lighteyes and a Radiant from Sadeas who are running seriously short on leadership? Don't think it even matters that he came from the Sadeas princedom. I think it would be within the purview of the Queen. That is how they got support during the unification of Alethkar. If someone was a highprince they didn't like, they would outmaneuver them (through outright war, or Sadeas getting the kings boon to challenge to a duel), and then appoint someone more amendable to their cause. Now having said that, I don't believe that will happen, but I believe it is certainly mechanically possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Now to go back onto the topic, is there any significance to the two Interlude chapter headers? Why did some chapters have one or the other? Or did we switch from one to the other at some point? Was it just a stylistic choice? @Nit, you misspelled Stormlight on the tags as "Storlight" Edited March 18, 2020 by Dreamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channelknight Fadran Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 Anyone else see the mistborn aesthetic, or is it just me? The curve and the spikes/spears through it remind me of an upside-down version of Brass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What's a Seawolf? Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 Kaladin's symbol has always looked like an eclipse to me. As the series progressed and with the theorizing that Roshar will be destroyed and/or the good guys will flee to another planet, I've come to think that the background represents the closing of a portal. Kaladin takes over leadership of one of the groups, either the one that leaves Roshar (maybe after Dalinar Ascends?) or the one that stays behind, and one of the closing scenes of the front 5 books is Kaladin rallying the troops as their new reality sets in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channelknight Fadran Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 On 2/9/2020 at 10:11 PM, Dreamer said: Jester That ain't no jester, man. That boi be Hoid. Look out for him whenever this picture appears in your chapter heading. Note: Maybe you already know this, maybe you don't. If you already do, my apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said: That ain't no jester, man. That boi be Hoid. Look out for him whenever this picture appears in your chapter heading. Note: Maybe you already know this, maybe you don't. If you already do, my apologies. It's fine 'Jester', that's how I'm referring to the face because it is the face of a court jester, symbolic of Hoid's profession as the King's Wit and also his role as a wildcard. Yeah, I'm aware that the jester on the arch of a chapter heading means it's Hoid's chapter or has a Hoid appearance. I do talk about the symbol in this very topic with Subvisual Haze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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