Scaldrian metals with other magic systems

[Koloss17]

im Thinking of merging some magic systems for an RPG, specifically scaldrial and some other one. I’m wondering what the 19 metals would do to other magic systems. Here’s my list of ideas thus far:

iron: might be able to force someone to dismiss their shardblades by pulling them away from them and mess with people with Shardplates, but not very efficiently.

steel: might stab someone with their own shardblade and be more efficient with attacking Shardplate users.

with both of these, you could use the Shardplated person as a puppet of sorts.

tin: probably notice heightenings easier and be better at aura recognition.

pewter: could crack shardplates easier

zinc: not much change

brass: not much change

bronze: depending on whether it senses investure, you could sense Radiants and people with breath.

copper: if it can suppress investures presence, then it could suppress the glowing of a radiant or the color deepening of breath.

gold: not much change

electrum: not much change

aluminum: if it can zap inner investure, it can destroy blood forgery or essence forgery. Feruchemy could do some wonky things with returned and essence forgery. What would it store? Who knows. Could destroy some radiant bonds or other abilities like sand mastery too.

duralumin: if it releases investure you are using, then it can give Radiants a super burst of health or over invest something. Can do some cools stuff with connection and their spren.

Nicrosil: if it boosts investure, it could do what duralumin does, but to others. It will be feruchemantically powerful for Radiants and storing breath

Chromium: is pretty darn overpowered. Can obliterate awakeners, sand masters, and Radiants. Also could probably kill nightblood.

Cadmium: not much change

bendalloy: not much change

atium: not much change

lerasium: not much change

harmonium: if it copies investure related abilities, pretty much makes everyone much more dangerous.

 

I would like to know other cosmerian applications  if there is any. I also am kinda speculating for some things, and I might have thought that some things apply to more general stuff than it really is. I would love feedback on my thoughts and on other new thoughts, cuz I want my RPG to be correct with cosmerian stuff.

 

 

[GoWibble]

Just saying, RPG is hard to deal with all of the possibilities. Good luck! I think that the Rosharan magics and the Scadrial metals pair kind of well, though. good luck and at me when you start it!

 

[Weltall]

If you're asking how the allomantic powers would work against other magic systems, there's a couple things to keep in mind when building your RPG:

- Things that are Invested are themselves resistant to being affected by Investiture, the more heavily Invested the greater the resistance. There's a long WoB here that goes into A-Iron/Steel being used against Invested objects which you might find useful. The short version is that pushing/pulling Shardplate is going to be extremely difficult and a Shardblade even harder, to the point that under normal circumstances they're not going to be affected by F-Iron or Steel. You'd probably need a duralumin/nicrosil boost to have any effect.

- A lot of the magics seen in one system are related to magics seen in others. A-Electrum for example works similarly to Sak's talent from Sixth of the Dusk and A-Copper works like Kokerlii's talent, or vice versa. So if you've got one magic system that looks like it does similar things to another, they're generally working on the same fundamental principles. That might help you figure out some interactions. I don't think that a coppercloud is going to hide the visual effects of someone's Breath aura but it might prevent people who have means of detecting Investiture from sensing that so-and-so has a whole lot of Breath. We do know a coppercloud can hide things within it from BioChromatic lifesense.

- A-Bronze is confirmed to work on all kinds of kinetic Investiture. That means that it could be used to detect a Radiant holding Stormlight and if they're actively using a Surge while the Seeker is looking, there would be a distinct 'pulse' that could identify which Surge it was, just like there is for allomancy. We've also got WoBs that a Seeker could 'hear' the Rhythms on Roshar but they wouldn't necessarily understand them without additional help. By extension a Seeker could sense Sand Mastery, Awakening, active uses of AonDor etc. One last caveat, A-Bronze generally doesn't work on Investiture that's just sitting and not doing anything, unless you're talking about extremely high concentrations of it like a Perpendicularity. This is why it's so hard for a Seeker to detect feruchemy.

- Aluminum is a Cosmere-wide Investiture sink and does wonky things within every magic system. It's known as Ralkalest on Sel and can't be Forged, it can't be Awakened and leaving enough of it in a recently deceased body could prevent them from Returning but just killing someone with an aluminum weapon won't do it, it can't be affected by Surgebinding (except that you can Soulcast things into aluminum, but not the other way around) and can do things like block spanreed communication and hide Surges from detection if you do it within an aluminum-lined room. We know that aluminum resists the supernatural (but not purely physical) cutting power of Shardblades.

- A-Chromium could definitely drain Breath or Stormlight (like a larkin) and could be used to kill a Lifeless or Returned by draining the (Divine) Breath giving them life, but it doesn't work instantly so you'd need to hold on to the target long enough to get all the Investiture and chromium burns quickly. It would probably not work to destroy a Shardblade (much less Nightblood) since they're so Invested that you'd need a ton of chromium and lots of time and Nightblood certainly isn't going to give you that before it (or its wielder) decides you're Evil and need to be Destroyed. However, we do have WoB that a Leecher who's using their powers could prevent someone from summoning a Shardblade in the first place.

Hope some of that helps.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Weltall

[Karger]

57 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

with both of these, you could use the Shardplated person as a puppet of sorts.

This would be extraordinarily difficult.

58 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

tin: probably notice heightenings easier and be better at aura recognition.

We don't know that.  It does not seem to do much to magical senses otherwise mistborn burning it with bronze would notice.

[Koloss17]

Maybe tin would let you see the difference in color more easily?

also does my other stuff like duralumin affect investure or just allomancy?

also also if a returned stored identity, would it be his identity or the person he used to be? Same with a person using an essence mark. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Koloss17

[Halyo_Alex]

9 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

also also if a returned stored identity, would it be his identity or the person he used to be? Same with a person using an essence mark. 

People always seem to think of Identity as something greater than it seems to be, currently. At the moment, we know for sure that Identity "keys" investiture to you, specifically. Like an Unkeyed metalmind has power stored but with no label telling the universe who it belongs to, so it's just like "uhhh okay" and lets anyone with the appropriate feruchemy tap the metal because it can't compare the Identity label of the power to whoever's trying to access it.

[Koloss17]

My line of thinking with aluminum, Nicrosil, and duralumin is this: 

chromium can wipe all forms of investure, so Nicrosil, it’s opposite, would release all forms of investure.

i think aluminum and duralumin are just like chromium and Nicrosil but personal, so they should work like chromium too. 

Is this right?

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

also also if a returned stored identity, would it be his identity or the person he used to be? Same with a person using an essence mark. 

As mentioned, that's not how Identity as we understand it works. Now, messing with Identity can be used to make certain magics that are naturally keyed to an individual either usable by everyone or at least usable by anyone who currently has a 'blank' Identity:

Quote

Djarskublar

*inaudible* [I asked if it would be possible to recall Breaths from an object that you had not placed there if the Awakener who did place them there had no Identity at the time.]

Brandon Sanderson

So, this is a very detailed, specific question, if you didn't hear it. It's dealing with the idea of Investiture and Identity, and things like this. If you can unkey the magic with Identity, for almost any case, it's going to make it much easier for other people to use. That's gonna be a blanket statement through the cosmere. If you can blank your Identity, it's at least gonna be able to be used by someone else with a blank Identity. Sometimes it's keyed, so the blank will not work with somebody who is themselves keyed. But if you can blank and they can blank, you can almost always guarantee the magic will be able to be used.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Per this WoB Identity manipulation can definitely be used to access Breath in an object someone else Awakened, though whether it requires a blank Identity on both sides or just on the part of the original Awakener isn't certain. Breath is interesting because it rekeys itself to the Identity of its recipient whenever it's passed using the 'My life to yours' Command.

Storing Identity would also leave you open to a whole lot of things including making Forgery easier to use on you but it wouldn't let you use any Essence Mark because those are still designed to work on a particular individual with a distinct Identity. By extension it would also mean that if you had one of your own, you couldn't use it while you had a blank Identity.

36 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

chromium can wipe all forms of investure, so Nicrosil, it’s opposite, would release all forms of investure.

i think aluminum and duralumin are just like chromium and Nicrosil but personal, so they should work like chromium too. 

Is this right?

Since aluminum/chromium are known to work on non-Scadrian magics it's a safe assumption that yes, a duralumin/nicrosil burst would do similar things to enhance non-Scadrian magics. With Surgebinding the effect would probably be pretty much the same, forcing all the Stormlight into whatever application of the magic the user is attempting (at least until the duralumin/nicrosil runs out) and resulting in a sudden burst of power. AonDor might be similar to what happened the first time Raoden successfully drew an Aon and wound up igniting part of the library by accident.

[Koloss17]

So if a nicroburst bursted an awakener while they are awakening something, what would happen?

Edited January 13, 2020 by Koloss17

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

On 13/01/2020 at 8:23 PM, Koloss17 said:

So if a nicroburst bursted an awakener while they are awakening something, what would happen?

I'm guessing nothing spectacular. Nicrosil greatly increases the speed at which investiture is expended/transfered, overcoming challenges with allomancy, but would probably have little to no effect on things that don't have a maximum rate of investiture expenditure. Awakening happens nearly instantly. Feruchemic stores can be expended at any desired rate. More permanent aons might be effected (Dor energy channeling at a quicker rate, thus magnifying the effect), but I'm not sure about the nearly instantaneous single use aons. And that all assumes that either Aons are tied to the caster or you can nicroburst a non-living entity like an Aon directly. Sand Mastery would be wonky, with your sand and water both going really quickly. 

[Koloss17]

Oooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh!A million thanks! You’re the best! My brain cells understand now!

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

Oooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh!A million thanks! You’re the best! My brain cells understand now!

You're welcome. Though as always, this is just my own understanding based on the books. I'm not versed enough in the words of Brandon to throw any of that out anymore, so someone else might have something else to add in.