Dandy_Dmitry

Bloodsealers Theories

7 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

There's not nearly enough Emperor's Soul topics on here so here I am. It's been briefly touched on in the Coppermind, but I think we can do better. 

 

-Lifeless versus skeletals--How do the Bloodseals compare to Biochromatic breath?

-Why Bloodsealing makes the object Unforgeable(?)

 

 

Edited by Dandy_Dmitry
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Posted (edited)

We don't exactly know much about Bloodsealing though, including the full range of what it can do. We understand very little of its mechanics, mostly through similar phenomena on other Shardworlds, specifically the one that you made comparison to, good catch there! 

We only know two effects of Bloodsealing:

1) Blood from a person can be used to create a seal to imprison. This is also where their name comes from

2) They can be used to create Skeletals

 

I'll go hunt down and put up the WoBs on Bloodsealing that are available to help in theory-crafting

The first WoB should also answer your first query, @Dandy_Dmitry

Spoilered for length, minor Warbreaker spoilers for first WoB

Spoiler
Quote

Bluebar

How does [Bloodsealing] actually work with [the skeletals]? Does it trap something inside the bones like a Command?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it works very similar to making Lifeless. Slight variations, but you are basically animating the bones by using Investiture that doesn't actually belong to them and tricking them into thinking that it does for a little bit of time and making it think it's alive again. And the fact that it's bones is really important for that, for Bloodsealing. But it's working in a similar way. The distinction is that with Lifeless you are actually using part of their own soul, right? And with Bloodsealing you're not.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

Quote

Bluebar

So does a Bloodseal have to be carved from bone?

Brandon Sanderson

Doesn't have to be, but usually is for various reasons.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

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Bluebar

Is there any requirement for how [a Bloodseal] is made, like location, like where the seal comes from?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there is some tradition tied to it, and that tradition is steeped in fact, but not all the traditions are necessary, if that makes sense. So they have more baggage to it than it actually needs, but some of the baggage has... Like the type of bone you're using, where you get the bone, and the location, and stuff is relevant, but some of the other things they put on it are not and also, it's not one hundred percent necessary.

Bluebar

So they think it might be necessary, but it's actually not?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

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Bluebar

Does the Bloodseal have to be made with the blood of whoever it's sealing?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

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Questioner

Does a Bloodsealer need to restamp the bones [of a skeletal] every twenty-four hours?

Brandon Sanderson

They do need to maintain the seals in the same way, it's not necessarily every twenty-four hours.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

Quote

Bluebar

Would animal bones work [for a skeletal]?

Brandon Sanderson

Animal bones can work and have been used before. They don't like them as much for various reasons. They're worse at following certain commands.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

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Questioner

Let's say a Bloodsealer got his hands on a Dakhor monk's bones. Could it still access the Dor. *Inaudible* Could they even be reanimated, and could they still be useful?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a really good question. So the bones are a conduit, much like Allomantic metal is. Allomantic metals are pretty easy to affect Investitures. I would say getting a-hold of a Dakhor monk's bones, likely, would work. Likely, they're not going to resist too much. But, I'm going to say harder to access the magic than you'd think, but easier than with regular bones.

So I'm going to give you a yes.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

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Questioner

Is Forgery completely distinct from Bloodsealing?

Brandon Sanderson

No.

Questioner

Are they distinct magic systems?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on your definition of a system. For instance, do you call Windrunning its own magic system, or would Surgebinding be the magic system? Or would you break it down further, and say Windrunning is further composed of two different systems...

Questioner

I guess I did just ask earlier if they're all manifestations of the same system.

Questioner

Like, more closely related, to maybe some of the other ones on Sel?

Billy Todd

So yes, they are more closely related than some others.

SpoCon 2013 (July 10, 2013)

 

That WoB also answers your second query, I believe. It convinces the Spiritual aspect of the bones that the Investiture coming in belongs to the bones.

We already know that a being's internal Investiture interferes with other Investiture.

~Mistborn spoilers~

Spoiler

This is why pushing/pulling on metals inside other people is so difficult

This, in addition  to the fact that it's hard to alter an already Invested object as per multiple WoBs.

This is what I suspect makes Forgery difficult with Bloodsealed objects.

Edited by Honorless
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37 minutes ago, Dandy_Dmitry said:

-Lifeless versus skeletals--How do the Bloodseals compare to Biochromatic breath?

About the same.

 

 

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Curious, I wonder about the extent blood sealer could utilize Investing the Dakhor bones. How would the Dor (or Aons  specifically, for that matter) affect Forged// Bloodsealed items? Because obviously with all magic systems it becomes noticeably harder to affect the Invested item, however the sheer amount of possibility is interesting to consider. The Dor can be used in such a variety of ways I would argue it's the strongest of the Cosmere. Just a thought. 

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25 minutes ago, Dandy_Dmitry said:

Curious, I wonder about the extent blood sealer could utilize Investing the Dakhor bones. How would the Dor (or Aons  specifically, for that matter) affect Forged// Bloodsealed items? Because obviously with all magic systems it becomes noticeably harder to affect the Invested item, however the sheer amount of possibility is interesting to consider. The Dor can be used in such a variety of ways I would argue it's the strongest of the Cosmere. Just a thought. 

The bones could be used to create a Skeletal without the bones resisting too much but there would still be some hoops to jump through to make the two magics play together and let the Skeletal access the Dakhor monk's magic.

Quote

Questioner

Let's say a Bloodsealer got his hands on a Dakhor monk's bones. Could it still access the Dor. *Inaudible* Could they even be reanimated, and could they still be useful?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a really good question. So the bones are a conduit, much like Allomantic metal is. Allomantic metals are pretty easy to affect Investitures. I would say getting a-hold of a Dakhor monk's bones, likely, would work. Likely, they're not going to resist too much. But, I'm going to say harder to access the magic than you'd think, but easier than with regular bones.

So I'm going to give you a yes.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

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So I interpreted these two WoB posted above in a certain way and I wonder if I am the only one:

 

Bluebar

Does the Bloodseal have to be made with the blood of whoever it's sealing?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

 

Questioner

Does a Bloodsealer need to restamp the bones [of a skeletal] every twenty-four hours?

Brandon Sanderson

They do need to maintain the seals in the same way, it's not necessarily every twenty-four hours.

 

 

So the first WoB say the bloodseal has to be made with the blood of whoever it's sealing. So it could mean on the surface that all blood seals require the blood of that which is being sealed. So to bloodseal a skeletal, then you would need the blood of the person whose bones it is. I would be on board with this, but then we have the WoB that the bones of the skeletal have to be maintained. If this was so, then the utility of the skeletals drops off sharply. You would need a fresh corpse, and have to drain every drop of blood. Then you would need an anti coagulate to keep the blood fresh over time, so you could re-stamp your skeletal every however long. The moment the blood goes bad, there goes your skeletal. Now that could be a limiting factor on the magic system, but I feel like that would be too much. I think the first WoB is referring to specifically the type of bloodseal that traps someone in the room, and tracks them. While the skeletal bloodseals work differently, potentially using the blood of the bloodsealer himself. At least those are my thoughts. 

 

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@Pathfinder, definitely not the only one; where the Investiture system's name comes from, and the comparison between Skeletals & Lifeless made me come to the same conclusion

Edited by Honorless
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