Stoneward Oaths(examined via various systems of martial mentalities including Just War Theory, Spartan Ethics, and SEAL training)

[Karger]

Per the request of @Honorless I am doing an analysis of stonewards oaths.  This is going to be extreamly difficult because with the exception of Willshapers(which I will most likely do next) we have the least information on them.  In fact unless you count Taln no Stoneward has had a POV chapter.  Additionally ideals of martial mentality and morality very greatly across cultures and times with no unifying ideals like justice or the Hippocratic oath binding them together.  Because of this I have had to use several different ideologies to try and deduce Stoneward ideals along with my standard Radiant ideal theory.

For those of you who don't know I believe that Radiant Oaths (with the exception of Lightweavers) follow a pattern.  The first ideal is constant, the second is about service, the third is about fairness, the fourth is about trust and the fifth is about the ultimate goal.  This belief fuels all of my theories. 

The first ideal for Stonewards is of course the same "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."  This is always the first ideal. 

Thankfully(for me) we also have a potential ideal for a second oath.  "I will stand where others fall."  This ideal reflects the duty of a Stoneward.  To persevere when no one else can.  Taln of course exemplifies this in his many final stands and in his refusal to give in at the hands of the fused.  This is a basic idea in warfare at the ground level.  For example the Spartan Ethos states that men should "...not surrender or retreat in battle" and “Hell Week(training for SEALs)” requires 90 percent mental and only 10 percent physical strength and capability. 

The second ideal is a great idea if you happen to be pointed in the right direction however service is not enough(as Kaladin discovered).  If you get six second ideal Stonewards in a room and tell them to agree on a course of action before leaving then only one of them can leave without braking their oath.  This approach is clearly flawed and both Roshar and Earthan history bear the consequences.  Thankfully both human philosophers and (hopefully) Rosharan Spren have come up with a solution to this issue.  It is here that we turn to Just War Theory.  Just War Theory states that before embarking on a course of action the resulting conflict must be in a just cause, have the right intention, have a strong probability of success, be a proportional response, and last resort(it also states that this has to be authorized by a legitimate authority but we will get to that latter).  Therefore for a third Stoneward ideal I think it should be "I will not embark on a course of action unless the resulting conflict is just, reasonable and has worthwhile results."

The third ideal helps with some of the comedically bad problems that Stonewards have(see how the 10 orders do everyday things thread if you don't believe me) but it does not quite help with everything.  Thankfully not all of us are stonewards but that means that sometimes things are too hard for us.  Both literature and history have many examples of strait forward people dealing with others who are more eclectic, esoteric or simply have different goals and ideologies.  Dalinar and Kadash are a great example of this.  Both are Alethi war veterans who prefer blunt and straight forward arguments, both are greatly concerned with the nature of divinity yet they can't make it through a conversation without it becoming an argument. 

Sparta's solution to this problem was a certain cult of obedience to Sparta with manners of dress and speech dictated by custom and credo to be identical to that of all other Spartans.  Similarly low level soldiers all where uniforms and have credos of behavior that they are expected to follow.  However what happens when our Stoneward needs to interact with a Lightweaver?  Just War Theory offers part of the answer.  As you may recall it states that legitimate authority is necessary to authorize action.  Broadly this is to stop independent actors from starting wars that they cannot stop.  Specifically this insures that conflicts involve people who are trained in medicine and diplomacy rather then who ever happens to have a bunch of guns.  Along with trust from my theory of Radiant oaths this gets us the ideal.  "I will depend on others to do their own tasks even if their methods and beliefs are alien to me."

With those four oaths out of the way a Stoneward still wants the final ideal.  This is the ultimate question for a Stoneward.  What kind of world do they want to live in?  I would say the ultimate goal of a Stoneward is live in a world in which people have the courage to approach and fulfill their dreams.  So there final ideal should be "I will help others to persevere longer then I can."

My pattern of radiant oaths theory can be found here.

Spoiler

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Karger

[Honorless]

That last oath was beautiful, Karg!

It's weird that Elsecallers & Truthwatchers are also among the Orders we still know so little about given that two of the main cast belong to these Orders, Jasnah and Renarin, plus two more for Truthwatchers (Ym and the Stump). We know that they were scholarly and their Divine Attributes. We know that the Elsecallers were prime liaisons to Shadesmar and that the Truthwatchers were secretive. Both did vital research for the Radiants. Can you also put them on your to-do list? 

[Karger]

23 minutes ago, Honorless said:

That last oath was beautiful, Karg!

Thanks glad someone enjoys it.  I become worried I was loosing cohesion(no pun) near the ending.

23 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Can you also put them on your to-do list? 

I eventually plan to do all of them but that will take time.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Ookla the Prolific

[Jenet]

I really love these posts, Ookla! I have nothing to add yet, but yes, keep them coming, they keep me thinking and wondering, seeing new angles all the time. Thank you.

[Karger]

On 1/9/2020 at 2:42 AM, Jenet said:

Thank you.

Your welcome.  I have another one out now.

[Karger]

I am going to do an update trying to integrate my 9 ideal theories and pattern of radiant oaths with the new radiant information.  I am starting with Stoneward because I think I got a few things right.  Also I really could use input from the rest of you.  This is new territory for all of us.  Our stoneward information is below spoilered for length.

Spoiler

Stoneward oaths focus on team dynamics, on learning to work with others, and on being there for those who need them. They put the interests of others before their own, and will not bend their Ideals for the sake of convenience.

Stonewards are the infantry and ground troops of the Radiants and are renowned as their finest soldiers. (A title that, on occasion, the Windrunners dispute.) They tend to attract those who are most interested in warfare, prowess with weapons, or athletics of any sort. They like a challenge, and in times of peace are seen engaging in (and running) various sporting events of both a military and non-military nature. Many enjoy the outdoors, and you’ll find exploration enthusiasts among them, as well as those who just like the fresh air. They tend to be known for their can-do attitudes and for taking on enormous projects (sometimes more than they can handle). However, most agree that the primary attribute of the Stonewards is their dependability. Though sometimes gregarious, they are never flighty. If a Stoneward is your friend, they will be there for you, and that is a core tenet of their Order—to be there when they are needed. Another key attribute is their ability to take a difficult situation with few resources and make something better of it. Though not known as inventors or creators, they are good at improvising solutions to problems in the moment.

I think the fifth oath works really well with the stated selflessness of the stonewards(I also really don't want to change it) and nicely the fourth works well with their team dynamics.  We already got the second ideal so no huge surprises there.  The trouble lies with the third ideal.  Stonewards do seem to be comprised largely of professional soldiers so I do think that they will know the value of avoiding conflict but this desire is not in the description.  Is it just that this oath worded differently or am I missing something.

 

[Honorless]

Yeah but do the edits in new posts!

I... am very attached to certain topics... 

[Karger]

55 minutes ago, R J said:

Yeah but do the edits in new posts!

That could get confusing.  I will make any updates as edits but I am not sure keeping them all the same is necessarily a good idea.

[Honorless]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

That could get confusing.  I will make any updates as edits but I am not sure keeping them all the same is necessarily a good idea.

But you will preserve the original post of the topic? 

[Karger]

Just now, R J said:

But you will preserve the original post of the topic? 

Of course.  That will show development.