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Fullborn vs Errbody


Bigmikey357

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Ok we have a Mistborn vs Else  thread and the topic of Fullborn came up. Now I believe that we can all agree that a Fullborn is the most combat capable,  most OP type of magic user in the Cosmere.  Nothing short of a Shard is beating a Fullborn one on one. So my question is simple.  What would it take to kill a Fullborn on a rampage? Could Nightblood do it? How much of a team would you need and what would be their composition? Would one type of magic user be enough or would it take several different magic systems? Or can it just not be done and someone would have to nuke a continent to get the job done? I'd appreciate your thoughts on the subject. 

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The thing about a fullborn is that they can compound all 16 metals, right. So you have absurd amounts of physical/mental speed, physical strength, healing, and even stuff like calories and hydration can be compounded via Bendalloy.

But then they ALSO have all the normal Allomantic metal effects on top of compounded feruchemical effects... If Nicrosil feruchemy does store pieces of your spiritweb (as, per WoB, Nicrosil's feruchemical storage is more akin to Copper in that it's contents are distinct pieces rather than just a reservoir of power), then Nicrosil compounding most likely results in at least a temporary net-gain in things like Allomantic potency. So, much like how the Lord Ruler could soothe a whole city in his sleep, this fullborn could at least do it while awake, and to be fair, he can also compound Wakefulness with bronze, which means he doesn't need to sleep at all.

I just think that Nicrosil compounding (if it works as I understand it to) and compounding in general makes a Fullborn too powerful if they're trying their damnedest to survive against a legitimate threat. TLR was only beaten because he didn't expect Vin to be able to push his Atiumminds, because they were charged and piercing his skin, and when they were removed, he was panicking to retrieve them and then grew too old too fast to be able to fight back effectively.

So, no, I think you would effectively need to nuke a fullborn (who is legitimately youthful rather than old but compounding Atium), they just have too many potent powers that they could use in concert to overwhelm anything in their way. Even nightblood requires physical contact, and he could compound speed or burn Bendalloy to evade him. Hm... Okay, maybe if a Steel compounder could sustain Nightblood AND get the speed boost, they MIGHT be able to get him. But afaik Nightblood cancels the power and just eats the investiture.

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There are two or three I can think of 1v1ing a Fullborn, but only with some Earth science knowledge, and waaay too much Investiture. A Lightweaver or Elsecaller making antimatter, a Lightweaver or Truthewatcher going gamma, and a Skybreaker or Windrunner making a black hole. Yes, they'd die too, but the Fullborn would be dead. And the planet.

 

Though, with further thought, an Elantrian might be able to, with enough knowledge, as well as our Wildcards of Hoid (Fullborn potentially+Lightweaver+Awakener, at least) and Frost (big fat question mark).

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The problem with fighting a Fullborn is that they can compound fortune. Difficult to get the drop on them when they have the equivalent of rank EX luck. It's like trying to kill Matt Cauthon from the Wheel of Time except that he is now also an Asha'man. 

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The thing that makes a Fullborn so blasted dangerous is Compounding. I mean the Mistborn power set is nearly broken already but but adding near infinite feruchemical stores on top of that? It's gonna be a bad day for most anyone that has to face that monster. To defeat that guy, therefore, one must find a way to deprive him or her of either Allomancy or Feruchemy, making them a much more manageable adversary.  Easier said than done amirighte? 

That being said, I believe the key to defeating a Fullborn lies in technology that isn't yet available in the books but should be theoretically possible to create.  We've already seen primer cubes at work. With a little research and a lot of trial and error I believe that field can be greatly expanded.  Imagine someone holding a leecher field with the range of, say a city block. Get in range of the guy, turn on the field, and move quickly to subdue the target. I'm certain that a fabrial could be constructed to create a similar effect. Put Vasher back in the researchers lab. He's already created Nightblood,  this should not be too much a stretch of his capacity. 

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5 hours ago, Dancer said:

The problem with fighting a Fullborn is that they can compound fortune. Difficult to get the drop on them when they have the equivalent of rank EX luck. It's like trying to kill Matt Cauthon from the Wheel of Time except that he is now also an Asha'man. 

Not luck exactly. Fortune is more inline with futuresight and similar things, atium works by Fortune to give an example. Not that it would make it any easier to take a fullborn on but it allows for a different avenue of attack without worrying about reality warping around you to benefit your opponent.

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13 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Ok we have a Mistborn vs Else  thread and the topic of Fullborn came up. Now I believe that we can all agree that a Fullborn is the most combat capable,  most OP type of magic user in the Cosmere.

The bearer of Yelig-Nar equipped with Blade and Plate may stand a chance, if he lives long enough to train his powers.

13 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

  Nothing short of a Shard is beating a Fullborn one on one. So my question is simple.  What would it take to kill a Fullborn on a rampage? Could Nightblood do it?

Presumably if you hit him. Big if.

13 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

How much of a team would you need and what would be their composition? Would one type of magic user be enough or would it take several different magic systems? Or can it just not be done and someone would have to nuke a continent to get the job done? I'd appreciate your thoughts on the subject. 

His weakness is on the supply side. Metalls don't grow on trees or are a side effect of storms. A Fullborn without fuel is just a Feruchemist.
His range over water is also limited. A Fullborn can actually walk on water (in fact a Feruchemist can), but the range is limited by his metalls. So it is again a question of terrain. If he is in range of a city or industrial with metals , you will run out of luck. Get the nukes ready.

If you absolutely need to confront him, you will need mobile forces, like Skybreakers, Windrunners, Mistborn, Elsecallers, Willshapers and Elantrians (in Arelon). Use allomantic grenades. Radiants armed with medaillons could be a good option.

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9 hours ago, Dancer said:

The problem with fighting a Fullborn is that they can compound fortune. Difficult to get the drop on them when they have the equivalent of rank EX luck. It's like trying to kill Matt Cauthon from the Wheel of Time except that he is now also an Asha'man. 

Fortune is not like luck.  In fact using it might make it easier for our team to win as everything in the SR notices and some may object to such a use of it.

Edited by Ookla the Prolific
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I'd think your best bet is too get an aluminum spine in him. Per the most recent Hemalurgic spike chart, it removes all powers. I'd think your best bet is too not fight him, but rather get someone who is unlikely to be paid any attention close and get the spike in. 

I'd go with a Truthwatcher for an Illusion and the healing in case it goes badly. Alternatively, a sufficiently powerful Soulcaster with enough practice might be able to form an aluminum spike in the right spot (assuming your Fullborn isn't too highly invested). 

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8 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

I'd think your best bet is too get an aluminum spine in him. Per the most recent Hemalurgic spike chart, it removes all powers. I'd think your best bet is too not fight him, but rather get someone who is unlikely to be paid any attention close and get the spike in. 

I'd go with a Truthwatcher for an Illusion and the healing in case it goes badly. Alternatively, a sufficiently powerful Soulcaster with enough practice might be able to form an aluminum spike in the right spot (assuming your Fullborn isn't too highly invested). 

Wow! Uh . . . you win.

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I would definitely assume that a Fullborn is too highly invested for Soulcasting a spike inside their body to be possible. Like a garden-variety Fused is too invested to be soulcast directly.

But I concur that an Aluminium spike is the best weapon for the job. That and Nightblood are the only surefire ways to kill a regenerator, and Nightblood is big and attention-grabbing and therefore wouldn't work on somebody who can compound physical and mental speed. But even then, compounding both kind of speed, senses and fortune making the prospect of catching him by surprise a logistical nightmare. 

Though I feel like noting that a Fullborn probably wouldn't survive taking a nuke to the face, because the concussive force would rip the goldminds off his body. So it's not like there's nothing that can take a Fullborn down. The issue, at least to me, is making sure they don't or can't dodge the lethal attacks.

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The consensus seems to be either a sneak attack with an aluminum spike or an ettmetal bomb to the face. I could imagine either approach working,  though I'd attempt to opt for stealth first; I'd rather not ruin an entire continent.  

Speaking of explosions,  I still like the idea of drawing the Fullborn into a leecher field then detonating a bomb while he has no access to kinetic investiture.  Or we can get snipers with aluminum bullets. Fun ideas all.

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2 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

The consensus seems to be either a sneak attack with an aluminum spike or an ettmetal bomb to the face. I could imagine either approach working,  though I'd attempt to opt for stealth first; I'd rather not ruin an entire continent.  

Speaking of explosions,  I still like the idea of drawing the Fullborn into a leecher field then detonating a bomb while he has no access to kinetic investiture.  Or we can get snipers with aluminum bullets. Fun ideas all.

Why not merge the ideas of aluminum spike and aluminum bullet? we've already seen that Wax can shoot a hemalurgic bullet and have it work as intended, snipe a hemalurgic aluminum bullet quietly enough, in a loud enough area, that the Fullborn can't pick out the sound of the shot. Problem solved, and you don't even need to go for a kill-shot. Once his/her powers are gone, the Fullborn is just a normal (albeit very angry) person. You could then arrest them or what have you, no murder needed. :D

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On 12/31/2019 at 5:28 PM, Halyo_Alex said:

Why not merge the ideas of aluminum spike and aluminum bullet? we've already seen that Wax can shoot a hemalurgic bullet and have it work as intended, snipe a hemalurgic aluminum bullet quietly enough, in a loud enough area, that the Fullborn can't pick out the sound of the shot. Problem solved, and you don't even need to go for a kill-shot. Once his/her powers are gone, the Fullborn is just a normal (albeit very angry) person. You could then arrest them or what have you, no murder needed. :D

Hitting bind points with a spike when someone is tied up is difficult itself. Now trying to hit a bind point, on a moving target, at a large enough distance that the Fullborn won't be suspicious is going to be damnation near impossible. You would need something like A-Atuim to have any chance of doing it with your first shot because one shot is all your going to get. Even then if your not skilled enough it doesn't matter how much Atuim you can burn you won't be able to hit the bind point.

Edited by Dancer
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Just now, Dancer said:

Hitting bind points with a spike when someone is tied up is difficult itself. Now trying to hit a bind point, on a moving target, at a large enough distance that the Fullborn won't be suspicious is going to be damnation near impossible. You would need something like A-Atuim to have any chance of doing it with your first shot because one shot is all your going to get. Even then if your not skilled enough it doesn't matter how much Atuim you can burn you won't be able to hit the bind point.  

Perhaps we need a Chromium compounder at the helm (proverbially) both to throw a primer cube to Leech the fullborn's metals, and to compound Fortune to know just which way to shoot to get the desired effect.

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Much of the Lord Ruler’s true power came from his total control of information. 
 

To get a leg up on all future born fullborn, a similar disinformation campaign could work, convincing people they don’t exist thus preventing their self-discovery or inserting a non-existant weakness into the lore. Back them into a corner always works as well. 

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Something people are forgetting is that our Fullborn may be compounding Pewter. That makes him a lot tougher and harder to hurt. He’s also compounding gold, so he’s constantly healing damage as it occurs. And Zinc, so he’s very aware of everything happening around him and is able to parse out all the information he gets from burning Tin - which is boosted.

Silenced guns are still very loud; they just won’t blow your eardrums when you pull the trigger. And the sound is distinctive. I’d suggest trying that during a fireworks display. The sound will blend in.

We don’t know how Alluminum spikes work. We don’t know what it means that it ‘removes all powers.’ Hemalurgy takes things; a spike doesn’t grant attributes unless it’s been charged. We are missing something important, and shouldn’t use it as a method until we know more.

Regular aluminum wounds can’t be healed until the aluminum is removed. But someone constantly healing could probably survive until they’ve pulled it out.

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4 hours ago, Llstml said:

I would bring in Dalinar and Jasnah, have them go to the cognitive realm, then have Dalinar supercharge Jasnah while she soulcasts the fullborn to smoke.

Considering how Invested a Fullborn is, there is a good chance that won't work

Edit: to put into perspective just how Invested a Fullborn is, Wax while holding the Bands which would have just had a fraction of the Investiture a Fullborn could have on them was the second most Invested non Shardic entity we have seen.

Edited by StanLemon
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4 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Considering how Invested a Fullborn is, there is a good chance that won't work

Edit: to put into perspective just how Invested a Fullborn is, Wax while holding the Bands which would have just had a fraction of the Investiture a Fullborn could have on them was the second most Invested non Shardic entity we have seen.

Unless they're tapping/burning at the time it doesn't really matter. Without using metals an allomancer or feruchemist is about as Invested as a regular person.

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5 hours ago, Agent34 said:

Unless they're tapping/burning at the time it doesn't really matter. Without using metals an allomancer or feruchemist is about as Invested as a regular person.

There is literally no reason a Fullborn would NOT be continually tapping there metal minds.  At the very least, they'd be tapping Brass and Gold to have full wakefulness and healing at all times.  

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6 hours ago, Agent34 said:

Unless they're tapping/burning at the time it doesn't really matter. Without using metals an allomancer or feruchemist is about as Invested as a regular person.

That is an interesting point, and it raises some questions about Kelsier in Mistborn Secret History, as he lasted much longer than the others who died. Perhaps that is because he was burning Malatium at the time, but it might also be that due to his connection to Preservation as a Mistborn, the investiture that makes up that connection was being consumed to sustain him - in short, if it wasn't because he was burning Malatium at the moment of his death, and as Leras said a Feruchemist would also list longer than a regular person, it could be that the connection to the power gives the soul more power even when the power isn't being used.

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