Mistborn vs Else

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Tglassy said:

And if we're going to start going down the "I brought my attack dog with a built in Force Field",  "Well I brought my dinosaur, which eats forcefield dogs" path, then the Mistborn gets a Medallion that grants Feruchemical Steel, Feruchemical Pewter and Feruchemcial Gold and wins all fights ever due to compounding.  Or a Hemalurgic Spike that grants the same.  

Except that would be Mistborn+Medallions. The "Shardglasses" are Radiant+nothing. 

 

1 hour ago, Tglassy said:

This is supposed to be looking at a Base Mistborn vs a Base user of any SINGLE magic system.  I had originally included all 18 known metals, as that is the MIstborn's full power without any gimmicks.  They technically get more, as Atium can be combined with any metal and, presumably, so can Trellium and Ettmetal, but we don't know what those do.  Somewhere down the line someone decided I should be limited to what is in the books, but I don't understand that.  Just because Mistborn didn't have access to Chromium in the books didn't mean they didn't have them.  Spook likely would have had access, the man reigned a hundred years and Harmony directed him to find the other metals.  A Mistborn with all sixteen base metals plus Atium is at the very least a match for Knight Radiant, though its possible a lvl 5 Radiant would win out, as we've never seen one, and it's possible some orders would do better than others due to Surge combinations.  But with Chromium and Duralamin, I just don't see a Knight Radiant winning.  Pretty much ever.  A Duralumin enhanced Pewter Punch would very likely break shard plate and keep on going.  Vin headbutted a man and his HEAD EXPLODED.  And she was barely dazed.  And she wasn't even using her full strength to do so.  Shardplate is strong, but we don't even know how strong living plate is, and we do know regular shard plate can be cracked by someone falling a really, really long way and kicking it, like Kaladin did in the arena.  He had no extra strength, just more weight.  

Spook never had any Atium, the only person to currently have Atium is Marsh, all the rest was burned. Also, some metals are difficult or even impossible to make in those times. The way I see it, there should be three catergories:

1. Mistborn with steel, iron, tin, pewter, zinc, brass, gold, electrum, Atium, bronze, copper, duraluminum, and aluminum. For equipment, they have glass daggers, a coin pouch, and a Mistcloak.

2. Mistborn with all sixteen metals, but no Atium. For  equipment, they have aluminum daggers and a coin pouch

3. Mistborn with all metals we have seen in the books, equipped with aluminum daggers and a coin pouch.

This is my opinion on how the fights would go:

1. Radiants below third ideal have no chance unless they are from either the Skybreaker, edgedancer, Windrunner, or Dustbringer, and have the terrain advantage. With Plate, and possibly shardglasses, those orders win most of the time. The other orders have a chance once they get Plate, depending on how powerful living Plate is, they could possibly win.

2. Radiants without Plate lose to chromium unless they are either a Windrunner, Skybreaker, Edgedancer, or Dustbringer, and are in a position were they can use their full mobility, or a Lightweaver who fools the Mistborn with illusions. With Plate I think all the orders would win, unless chromium instantly destroys Shardplate.

3. before Plate, all orders lose. With Plate, only the Windrunners, Skybreakers, Edgedancers, and Dustbringers have a chance, and I think the terrain will decide the victor.

(I didn't include Stonewards because we haven't seen them in action yet)

On a side note, could Lightweavers make a bunch of fake Atium shadows to fool a Mistborn? I know that illusions can be detected by bronze, but it would still be extremely confusing and could help to negate the effects of Atium somewhat.

[Bigmikey357]

@Llstml

Elsecallers get no love? Nightcrawler who can Soulcast at Range or from the CR? What can a Mistborn do to defend against that?

[NameIess]

56 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Elsecallers get no love? Nightcrawler who can Soulcast at Range or from the CR? What can a Mistborn do to defend against that?

Burn all their metals? I forgot about them, I think that it would depend on how quickly they could travel to the Cognitive, and how resistant Mistborn are to Soulcasting.

[Tglassy]

1 hour ago, Llstml said:

Except that would be Mistborn+Medallions. The "Shardglasses" are Radiant+nothing. 

 

Spook never had any Atium, the only person to currently have Atium is Marsh, all the rest was burned. Also, some metals are difficult or even impossible to make in those times. The way I see it, there should be three catergories:

1. Mistborn with steel, iron, tin, pewter, zinc, brass, gold, electrum, Atium, bronze, copper, duraluminum, and aluminum. For equipment, they have glass daggers, a coin pouch, and a Mistcloak.

2. Mistborn with all sixteen metals, but no Atium. For  equipment, they have aluminum daggers and a coin pouch

3. Mistborn with all metals we have seen in the books, equipped with aluminum daggers and a coin pouch.

This is my opinion on how the fights would go:

1. Radiants below third ideal have no chance unless they are from either the Skybreaker, edgedancer, Windrunner, or Dustbringer, and have the terrain advantage. With Plate, and possibly shardglasses, those orders win most of the time. The other orders have a chance once they get Plate, depending on how powerful living Plate is, they could possibly win.

2. Radiants without Plate lose to chromium unless they are either a Windrunner, Skybreaker, Edgedancer, or Dustbringer, and are in a position were they can use their full mobility, or a Lightweaver who fools the Mistborn with illusions. With Plate I think all the orders would win, unless chromium instantly destroys Shardplate.

3. before Plate, all orders lose. With Plate, only the Windrunners, Skybreakers, Edgedancers, and Dustbringers have a chance, and I think the terrain will decide the victor.

(I didn't include Stonewards because we haven't seen them in action yet)

On a side note, could Lightweavers make a bunch of fake Atium shadows to fool a Mistborn? I know that illusions can be detected by bronze, but it would still be extremely confusing and could help to negate the effects of Atium somewhat.

I can probably agree with that analysis.  It's what I've been saying.  A Mistborn is at least the equal to a Radiant, though some Orders may be better than others.  

 

56 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

@Llstml

Elsecallers get no love? Nightcrawler who can Soulcast at Range or from the CR? What can a Mistborn do to defend against that?

Depends on whether or not Bronze can detect a Radiant using Stormlight in the CR, which I think they should, considering Vin could detect Kel's Cognitive Shadow.  And as long as they're burning metals, it would likely take more Stormlight than they hold to soul cast one.  Now, they could soul cast a stone cage around the Mistborn, and do other nasty things, and could keep from getting pinned down by one, but we don't know how much Stormlight it takes to cross over to the Cognitive Realm (It's a Surge, so it must take Stormlight), so we don't know how often an Elsecaller could actually use this.  There's always the talk about Soulcasting the Mistborn's metals, but there's too much about Soulcasting and Elsecallers we just don't know.  

[Bigmikey357]

16 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

I can probably agree with that analysis.  It's what I've been saying.  A Mistborn is at least the equal to a Radiant, though some Orders may be better than others.  

 

Depends on whether or not Bronze can detect a Radiant using Stormlight in the CR, which I think they should, considering Vin could detect Kel's Cognitive Shadow.  And as long as they're burning metals, it would likely take more Stormlight than they hold to soul cast one.  Now, they could soul cast a stone cage around the Mistborn, and do other nasty things, and could keep from getting pinned down by one, but we don't know how much Stormlight it takes to cross over to the Cognitive Realm (It's a Surge, so it must take Stormlight), so we don't know how often an Elsecaller could actually use this.  There's always the talk about Soulcasting the Mistborn's metals, but there's too much about Soulcasting and Elsecallers we just don't know.  

Detecting a presence in the CR isn't the same as knowing exactly where the person is well enough to point to them, but let us say that makes a difference. Even if they could, even if all went perfectly,  the Mistborn can see the Radiant perfectly, walking or running towards them in the CR, then what? Tranversing realms isn't in the Mistborn skill set. But the Elsecaller can strike from there, is especially equipped to effect people and objects from one realm to the other. If the Mistborn cannot detect the Radiant with fighting precision they won't even get a chance to run. And the beauty of it is, they don't even have to attempt to Soulcast the Mistborn,  just turn all their metals, all their weapons,  to smoke. If they're subtle and possess any knowledge of metallurgy they could even change the composition of their metals, make them think they have their metals and end up making them sick. And they don't have to touch the Mistborn at all.

[Elanmorin]

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

We cannot assume anything about Plate, because living plate has only been shown in past visions.  

We've also seen Kaladin using a helm in the arena where he was able to keep it from shattering. It's reasonable to conclude that a Radiant can keep their Plate going longer at the expense of Stormlight. The question then becomes if the Mistborn with Atium do enough damage to deplete the Radiant's Stormlight before their Atium runs out. Doubtful, seeing as Kaladin was keeping the helm intact against shardblades which is reasonable to assume do more damage per hit against Plate than pushed coins.
 

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

 That visor slot is the plate's only weakness.  If they were able to to "Reconfigure" the plate so they could both see and not have that weakness, they wouldn't wait for a Mistborn to do so.  They'd just do it and make it a standard addition.

They can also make their shardblades into literally any weapon yet all the leftover blades are swords. Standard equipment against Thunderclasts/Fused need not be standard equipment against Mistborn. If you aren't fighting anything that can really punish you effectively and consistently for having a visor slit, like a Mistborn with Atium could, then there's no reason to specifically avoid it at the expense of diminished vision. 

I've looked through those stupid plastic "glasses" that have a bunch of holes in them. Can I see? Sure. Would I pick those unless absolutely necessary? No. 

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

I'd disagree with that, for reasons stated above.  Future Sight wins all.  If there's only one exhaust pipe in the entire space station that would allow for the space station to blow up, the Mistborn would hit it like bulls eyeing womp rats in their T-16 back home.  There only needs to be one chance for them to win, no matter how small, because that's what seeing the future does.  

Speed wins all but that's why I think an Era 2 Steel/Steel Twinborn wipes the floor with a full Radiant to the same extent that a full Radiant wipes the floor with an Era 1 Mistborn. 

Atium isn't an "I win button" like a shardblade hit is - it shows the paths available to the "I win button" if it happens to exist. I don't reject that Atium will show the Mistborn a path where they score a hit on the Radiant. I reject that Atium will show the Mistborn a path where they score a hit on the Radiant and not take a hit in the process. Future-sight only shows what's physically possible, and a full Radiant's abilities put a serious limit on what is physically possible for a Mistborn to do to them. 

I think all Atium will show the Mistborn is how to not die until it runs out and their eyes get burned out. 

4 hours ago, Tglassy said:

And if we're going to start going down the "I brought my attack dog with a built in Force Field",  "Well I brought my dinosaur, which eats forcefield dogs" path, then the Mistborn gets a Medallion that grants Feruchemical Steel, Feruchemical Pewter and Feruchemcial Gold and wins all fights ever due to compounding.  Or a Hemalurgic Spike that grants the same.  

Not sure where this is coming from. Unless I missed something no one is suggesting giving the Radiant any abilities that can't be reasonably explained as naturally available to the Radiant. Outside-the-box application of presumably existing abilities is in no way comparable to "lulz, give them the Elsecaller Honorblade. gg ez."

4 hours ago, Tglassy said:

This is supposed to be looking at a Base Mistborn vs a Base user of any SINGLE magic system. 

Pretty sure that's exactly what we are doing. 

4 hours ago, Tglassy said:

  I had originally included all 18 known metals, as that is the MIstborn's full power without any gimmicks.  They technically get more, as Atium can be combined with any metal and, presumably, so can Trellium and Ettmetal, but we don't know what those do.  Somewhere down the line someone decided I should be limited to what is in the books, but I don't understand that. 

We're going to disagree here, but if we're going for a "base" comparison as you say it's supposed to be then I'd say it's reasonable to use Mistborn from when they were naturally occurring (Era 1) with the metals that were commonly known and naturally occurring at that time.

If we did assume an Era 2 Mistborn then they don't get Atium but an Era 2 Mistborn wouldn't need Atium anyway since it's not unreasonable to give an Era 2 Mistborn Medallions and F-Steel is brokenly OP. 

4 hours ago, Tglassy said:

But with Chromium and Duralamin, I just don't see a Knight Radiant winning.  Pretty much ever.  A Duralumin enhanced Pewter Punch would very likely break shard plate and keep on going.  Vin headbutted a man and his HEAD EXPLODED.  And she was barely dazed.  And she wasn't even using her full strength to do so.  

With Stormlight speed, Plate, and Blade, I just don't see a Mistborn winning. Pretty much ever. A Duralimin enhanced Pewter Punch might shatter a plate section (and be rebounded in the process) and then their eyes get burned out. A Mistborn in melee with a Radiant is a dead Mistborn. 
 

[Tglassy]

You've made your case, I've made mine.  Without more information, such as just how strong duralumin enhanced pewter is or how much pressure it would take to shatter Plate in one blow, or how much stormlight Plate drains or how much a Radiant can hold once they get plate, there's not going to be an answer.  I think Vin could head butt a Radiant in Plate with Duralumin Pewter and at the very least shatter the plate (and no, Vin wouldn't have her head split because Pewter strengthens the body). You don't.  There's no way to quantify that.

 

But we don't know if shattering Living Plate even matters, or if they can just reform it.  It's possible forming Plate takes a ridiculous amount of Stormlight, and reforming it after its shattered would be too cost prohibitive.  We just don't know, so we can't quantify.  We don't know how difficult it would be for an Elsecaller to hop to the other side and find the Mistborn and soul cast something on his person.  In actuality, that might now work, at least not on Roshar, because the Mistborn would have moved the PR vials from where they were in the CR, and they'd be lost somewhere in the vast sea of the CR, slowly making their way to wherever the Mistborn is, but still unfindable.  It's also possible that soul casting from a distance doesn't allow for precise things like "Find the metal inside that vial and turn it into flour."  We also don't know just how much Stormlight a Radiant can hold at lvl 5, and how efficient it would be.  It's entirely possible that at lvl 5, they're so powerful that even a Fullborn would have a hard time killing them, speed or no.  We just don't know, as there's only one in the books, and he was already a Harald.  

 

On the Mistborn side, we don't know how long each metal actually lasts when its burned.  Brandon plays with that in the books, only having it run dry at plot convenient times.   A dose of Pewter is only supposed to last for ten minutes of straight burning, and Ham advised not to burn at all times, but only when you needed it, but later Vin keeps it on twenty four seven, and we never see her choking down pewter dust like we see Spook do with Tin.  We don't know how Chromium works with something like the Surge of Division, as its possible that it could defuse any surge affecting the MIstborn (like adhesion).  We don't know how long it would take for Chromium to drain a Radiant of their stormlight, or if it would do anything to shard plate at all.  We don't know if a punch from a Duralumin enhanced Pewter burn would be able to crack Shardplate, shatter Shardplate, or not leave a dent.  We don't know if there's a way to hit a Radiant through the eye slit that would incapacitate them long enough for a Mistborn to take advantage (although remember, Kal did that to a full Shardbarer who had plate and blade, and he wasn't even really a squire yet, though he was using Stormlight, if only a little, so obviously running up to a Shardbarrer and slamming something into their face through the visor is possible, even for a normal person, much less a Mistborn).  

 

I'm not sure how much more use this particular conversation can be until we get more numbers.  

[Elanmorin]

5 hours ago, Tglassy said:

 It's entirely possible that at lvl 5, they're so powerful that even a Fullborn would have a hard time killing them, speed or no.  We just don't know, as there's only one in the books, and he was already a Harald.  

Nah, I'm biased as hell towards Stormlight Archive and even I'm going to give that fight to a Fullborn 9 times out of 10. 10 times out of 10 if they're too invested for an Elsecaller/Lightweave to soulcast from a distance. 

5 hours ago, Tglassy said:

I'm not sure how much more use this particular conversation can be until we get more numbers.  

But arguing about things that don't actually matter is fun. 

What am I supposed to do now? Get off my butt and organize the garage and basement like my wife's been asking me to for months? 

[Koloss17]

How about a prepared electrum steelrunner forger?

you know how you die and are immune to atium

you got a belt with aluminum encased stamps that you use on the coins thrown at ya, and when you get close enough, you essence stamp em to not get snapped.

the one problem is having enough knowledge of the person to know how where and why they snapped, but that would probably take a month max. In that month, you can be storing your speed and you’re good!

 

 

 

[Karger]

7 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

you got a belt with aluminum encased stamps that you use on the coins thrown at ya, and when you get close enough, you essence stamp em to not get snapped.

 

8 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

the one problem is having enough knowledge of the person to know how where and why they snapped, but that would probably take a month max. In that month, you can be storing your speed and you’re good!

That kind of stamp would likely not take for very long if at all.  It is a very interesting approach to battle but you need to read someone's diary and being an exceptional forager to make that kind of thing work.  If you don't know who you are up against or they did not keep records you are in big trouble.

[Tglassy]

There are certainly combination powers that could take on Mistborn.  That's why I specified any Single power set from any single system, because a Mistborn or Feruchemical Radiant is possible.  Technically, any mixture of powers is possible with Hemalurgy.  A Feruchemical Radiant would wipe the floor with a Mistborn. 

[Koloss17]

47 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

There are certainly combination powers that could take on Mistborn.  That's why I specified any Single power set from any single system, because a Mistborn or Feruchemical Radiant is possible.  Technically, any mixture of powers is possible with Hemalurgy.  A Feruchemical Radiant would wipe the floor with a Mistborn. 

Ooooooooooooooohh my bad!

[Pathfinder]

So first and foremost @Tglassy I just want to make clear I agree at this stage there is just too much we do not know. I agree with you in that regard. My comments below regarding soulcasting is not with the intent of proving a point, or proving you wrong. Just adding information regarding soulcasting in particular that I have learned through a lot of reading and research. So anything I say regarding soulcasting in contrary to your statements, is not to say "this is why a radiant would win over a mistborn". All it is saying is, actually we do know this, or we did see that. Also it is not meant to be corrective of you. Again, just intending to share information. 

 

 

On 1/11/2020 at 7:54 PM, Tglassy said:

Depends on whether or not Bronze can detect a Radiant using Stormlight in the CR, which I think they should, considering Vin could detect Kel's Cognitive Shadow.  

I will need to check to be sure, but I do not believe Vin detected Kelsier via bronze. She felt his presence because of her strong connection to him, just like Spook. The mistspirit alternated between preservation trying to guide her and ruin trying to mislead her, not Kelsier. But again I will need to confirm it, I could be remembering incorrectly. 

Quote

And as long as they're burning metals, it would likely take more Stormlight than they hold to soul cast one.

The WoB I posted earlier states soulcasters (the fabrial) are used to pushing through innate investiture. That they are so used to it, soulcasters (the fabrial) could soulcast full metal minds.

Quote

 Now, they could soul cast a stone cage around the Mistborn, and do other nasty things, and could keep from getting pinned down by one, but we don't know how much Stormlight it takes to cross over to the Cognitive Realm (It's a Surge, so it must take Stormlight), so we don't know how often an Elsecaller could actually use this.  

In the deleted scene with Jasnah, she had gemstones hidden sewn into her dress. She used the stormlight to heal from the stabbing, and Ivory pulled her into the cognitive realm with transportation. So Jasnah, injured, and having already used stormlight to heal from a hidden cache small enough to not glow strong enough to see through cloth, was enough to transfer to the cognitive realm. 

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There's always the talk about Soulcasting the Mistborn's metals, but there's too much about Soulcasting and Elsecallers we just don't know.  

And I cannot wait to find out more!

On 1/12/2020 at 10:32 AM, Tglassy said:

We don't know how difficult it would be for an Elsecaller to hop to the other side and find the Mistborn and soul cast something on his person.  In actuality, that might now work, at least not on Roshar, because the Mistborn would have moved the PR vials from where they were in the CR, and they'd be lost somewhere in the vast sea of the CR, slowly making their way to wherever the Mistborn is, but still unfindable.  It's also possible that soul casting from a distance doesn't allow for precise things like "Find the metal inside that vial and turn it into flour."    

So we do know that you can soulcast at range, with your eyes closed, at a moving target while the source remains stationary. We also know you can multi target moving targets and they do not have to be along an analogous path. In the alley the two men fled in opposite directions. In both men, they bodies were selected in exclusion from their clothes. So there does seem to be some selective capabilities for ranged soulcasting. 

Also I had mentioned earlier that in full disclosure it could be debated (meaning I have discussed this topic in the past, and there are people with differing opinions on it, that I will not relate as I do not want to misrepresent them), but from Renarin's perspective, he watches Jasnah soulcast a man to crystal, throw him back, he hits someone, they turn to crystal, and fly back with the same force, then another, and then ending with a fourth. She then touches a wall turning it to smoke collapsing the alley, and then as she runs up them, Jasnah soulcasts the steps. Then, after all that, he feels the surge of stormlight and power from Dalinar bringing the realms together. So I read that as those three things were done before the realms were brought together, and any elsecaller of the same oath level as Jasnah at the time of that scene could accomplish those feats. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Pathfinder

[NameIess]

A Zinc ferring could probably kill a Mistborn by Storing Mental speed, then tapping it in order to predict the Mistborns next move, then react based on that at the last second like Vin did, only considerably more easily. It would take the Mistborn being dumb enough to attack at close range as opposed to shooting them with coins from a distance.

[StanLemon]

1 hour ago, Llstml said:

A Zinc ferring could probably kill a Mistborn by Storing Mental speed, then tapping it in order to predict the Mistborns next move, then react based on that at the last second like Vin did, only considerably more easily. It would take the Mistborn being dumb enough to attack at close range as opposed to shooting them with coins from a distance.

Possibly, but if a Mistborn held back and fired off coins in sprayed masses it would be hard for the Ferring to avoid that no matter how fast they think

[NameIess]

46 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Possibly, but if a Mistborn held back and fired off coins in sprayed masses it would be hard for the Ferring to avoid that no matter how fast they think

I said that.

[Friendshipspren]

On 12/27/2019 at 1:08 PM, Dancer said:

A lot of these match ups come down to the skill of the individual combatants. If an Elsecaller is as skilled as Jasnah and has enough Stormlight then I don't care who you are, you are going to be Soulcast.

Very skilled Mistborn have a slew of abilities like steel sight, leeching any type of Investiture and as Brandon has confirmed being able to anchor speed bubbles around them allowing for F-steel speeds. If they were smart they would also use emotional Allomancy as a weapon making their opponents have huge mood swings like crippling depression to intense fear to overwhelming joy mid fight. Obviously your run of the mill Mistborn is not this skilled and would most likely lose to a full Feruchemist 6-7/10. 

What about Aluminum ? Suppose the mistborn burns it , would it make him immune to soulcasting ? 

We already know it would negate the damage from threnodite withering.

Also oh yeah I hadn't considered that anchored steel bubbles would counter F-speed. Noice. 

But I don't understand y u think ur run of the mill mistborn wouldn't be that skilled. 

In TFE, almost every mistborn was noble and deception was everything and so most nobles didn't practice much fearing spies who could report to other houses. 

Kelsier had an advantage in that he being a Mistborn himself would scout the surrounding to make sure it was safe for valette to train. Not to mention none of the houses even considered valette enough threat to waste spies on her.

Kelsier also had training from another mistborn and Vin had Kelsier and the crew to train her.

Elend had Vin to train him.

We have all seen how much they progressed.

Not to mention they didn't have access to 7 metals 

And the main reason the other mistborn were not so skilled was BECAUSE of the focus on atium which meant they neglected the other metals. What does it matter how good you are at emotional manipulation when your opponent could see ur every future move before even you did. 

In era 2 and 3 should a Mistborn appear , I'm sure he or she will become highly skilled in all metals. Will this person have other mistborn to train them ? I'm guessing no. But they don't have to worry about spies or house politics and are free.

They will also have lots of mistings to train under. They could just claim to be a misting of one kind and learn and move on to being a misting of another kind. 

Emotional allomancy would be priced more since now you don't have to worry about house wars much and have to focus on peaceful negotiations more. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing

[Frustration]

I am tired of people overstating Mistborns powers, yes you could in theory drain a Radiants Stormlight, but first you have to touch someone who can one shot kill you. Vin got trapped for days on end in a stone box, not exactly a great track record. A prepared Feuralchemist would mop the floor with any Mistborns barring being buffed with the power of Preservation. Vasher showed that giving even a few breaths to someone unprepared can through them off long enough to kill. There are so many ways a Mistborns dies in any senario they are far from invincible. 

[Lightblood]

I say you arm a knight radiant with a larkin so when a mistborn uses chromium you suck it right back out of him. 

Genius if I do say so my self

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, Lightblood said:

I say you arm a knight radiant with a larkin so when a mistborn uses chromium you suck it right back out of him. 

Genius if I do say so my self

Why a Larkin just shove a shardblade through their eye.

[Pathfinder]

6 hours ago, Lightblood said:

I say you arm a knight radiant with a larkin so when a mistborn uses chromium you suck it right back out of him. 

Genius if I do say so my self

I believe chromium erases the investiture, not consume it. So if the mistborn used chromium, there wouldn't be anything to suck back out unless that mistborn burned other metals, in which case the larkin would theoretically eat the investiture coming in from the metals resulting in the mistborn burning without gaining any effect. Possibly. 

[Karger]

9 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I believe chromium erases the investiture, not consume it. So if the mistborn used chromium, there wouldn't be anything to suck back out unless that mistborn burned other metals, in which case the larkin would theoretically eat the investiture coming in from the metals resulting in the mistborn burning without gaining any effect. Possibly. 

The investiture is not kinetic until the metal is burned but larkin tend to get kinetic investiture so they would probably be able to stop chromium. 

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coltonx9

Are there types of Investiture that the larkin can't consume?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I would say that there are, but it's going to depend on the state they're in. Pure Investiture, a larkin is always going to probably be able to grab, but lots of people can get pure Investiture. Kinetic Investiture they're are gonna have a good chance at being able to grab, but they can't get everything.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

 

[Pathfinder]

31 minutes ago, Karger said:

The investiture is not kinetic until the metal is burned but larkin tend to get kinetic investiture so they would probably be able to stop chromium. 

 

Only commenting to clarify what I believe lightblood was saying, thereby clarifying the intention of my response.

Lightblood said "use chromium to suck it right back out of him"

I took that to mean the radiant has stormlight. The mistborn uses chromium to suck out the investiture from the radiant. The larkin then sucks out the investiture back out of the mistborn. 

If I read that correctly, then to my knowledge, that is not how that works. The chromium would have destroyed the investiture of the radiant. the mistborn would have never sucked the investiture out. So going on that scenario and that scenario only, there would be no investiture for the larkin to then suck back. 

If however the mistborn was burning other metals, then the larkin could eat that. 

To further illustrate in numerical order:

 

1. radiant has stormlight

2. mistborn uses chromium to drain radiant's investiture

3. mistborn now has radiant's investiture

4. radiant uses larkin to suck the radiant investiture of the mistborn back out

 

Since using chromium means the investiture is "destroyed" (I use quotes because I do not mean the investiture is annihilated. I mean it is just gone from this situation), then this scenario should end at line 2. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Pathfinder

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I took that to mean the radiant has stormlight. The mistborn uses chromium to suck out the investiture from the radiant. The larkin then sucks out the investiture back out of the mistborn. 

If I read that correctly, then to my knowledge, that is not how that works. The chromium would have destroyed the investiture of the radiant. the mistborn would have never sucked the investiture out. So going on that scenario and that scenario only, there would be no investiture for the larkin to then suck back. 

This does raise the interesting question of where the investiture goes and how it gets there when chromium is used.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Only commenting to clarify what I believe Booknerd was saying, thereby clarifying the intention of my response.

Booknerd said "use chromium to suck it right back out of him"

 

That was Lightblood not me get the person you are talking about right.