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Mistborn vs Else


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13 minutes ago, Nameless said:

An aluminum dagger through the eye would kill a Radiant unless they took it out right away. Aluminum inflicted wounds cannot be healed as long as the aluminum remains in it.

If you give the Mistborn knowledge of how to kill a Radiant then you give the Radiant knowledge of how to defend.

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Just now, Booknerd said:

If you give the Mistborn knowledge of how to kill a Radiant then you give the Radiant knowledge of how to defend.

I'm just saying that an aluminum dagger could potentially one-shot a Radiant. It would also be fairly basic equipment for an era 2 or above Mistborn, unless you want to give them a gun.

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1 minute ago, Nameless said:

I'm just saying that an aluminum dagger could potentially one-shot a Radiant. It would also be fairly basic equipment for an era 2 or above Mistborn, unless you want to give them a gun.

What era two mistborn?

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35 minutes ago, Nameless said:

An aluminum dagger through the eye would kill a Radiant unless they took it out right away. Aluminum inflicted wounds cannot be healed as long as the aluminum remains in it.

Oh aluminum would definitely do it, but even a normal dagger to the brain seems like it would be bad news bears.

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23 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

If you give the Mistborn knowledge of how to kill a Radiant then you give the Radiant knowledge of how to defend.

Well, knowledge that aluminum is dangerous wouldn't really do much to change the Radiants fighting style would it? After all, the only weak spot on Plate is the same as it ever was. Might change how they use their Blade though considering that aluminum daggers could, at least partially, bock those

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2 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Well, knowledge that aluminum is dangerous wouldn't really do much to change the Radiants fighting style would it? After all, the only weak spot on Plate is the same as it ever was. Might change how they use their Blade though considering that aluminum daggers could, at least partially, bock those

Yes but surprise no longer works

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7 minutes ago, Nameless said:

If we are going to nerf the Mistborn, then why are we giving the Radiant full fifth-ideal powers?

Because Radiants can achieve that, no mistborn with the possible exception of Spook ever used four of the metals known now, so how on Earth do you propose one get's them? A Radiant can still get to fifth Ideal.

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12 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Because Radiants can achieve that, no mistborn with the possible exception of Spook ever used four of the metals known now, so how on Earth do you propose one get's them? A Radiant can still get to fifth Ideal.

Marsh has Atium. Harmony could make more. Straff had a secret stash of it. If a Mistborn were to be created from one of the remaining Lerasium beads, then they could potentially get all sixteen metals.

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1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

If you give the Mistborn knowledge of how to kill a Radiant then you give the Radiant knowledge of how to defend.

That is not a necessary assumption. It depends on the area we are talking about. If we are talking about a Mistborn arising in or after the Wax & Wayne era, such a Mistborn would presumably be equipped to fight allomancers, if he or she were equipped in any way at all. Obsidian knives are quite quaint. Aluminium daggers make a lot of sense. As would aluminium containers for their metals.

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7 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

And here we enter the area of unknowns. What does a coppercloud do to a spren's powers of observation? Are spren vulnerable to emotional allomancy? Can you use chrome against a spren? Can you sense a spren with bronze? What do zinc and brass do to a Knight Radiant? Can you make them not care enough to resummon their Plate?

Actually I would leave the hilt on. It may stop the Radiant from summoning his helmet. Notch some hooks into your blade. But those are details. That is indeed the basic tactic. If the Radiant is disabled more than a few seconds, he will die. If the Radiant gets a good strike with his Blade in, the Mistborn is dead. That means the Radiant could try to use a trap. This really boils down the unknowns and individual capabilities, not arcane powers.

For that you would need clearer differences. A Radiant without a Blade would die, unless he simply runs far away. I would bet on the Mistborn, if the Radiant had no Plate, but this is not a sure thing. If the Radiant has Plate and Blade, all bets will be of.

We can do a little intelligent speculation based on general realmatic theory and similar situations in the books. But the results of my deep dive will likely be different than others as more weight given to some evidence others may discount.  

Being honest,  based on the emotional makeup of these Radiants, I think emotional Allomancy would be most effective against them. It might not work against plate but as many have observed,  Radiants don't always use plate.  But as far as such tactics working against Spren themselves,  well Investiture resists Investiture.  Spren are in the simplest terms is pure Investiture with some personhood added. It will be difficult for any type of Allomancy to touch them. 

Speaking of Spren,  if the fight is on Roshar the Radiant has a huge advantage over most any magic user.

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1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Marsh has Atium. Harmony could make more. Straff had a secret stash of it. If a Mistborn were to be created from one of the remaining Lerasium beads, then they could potentially get all sixteen metals.

Both Marsh and Harmony follow an almost non-intervention code of conduct, and there will be very little left of Final empire stockpiles, IF they can be found

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1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Both Marsh and Harmony follow an almost non-intervention code of conduct, and there will be very little left of Final empire stockpiles, IF they can be found

Well, if the battle is on Scadrial, or any planet besides Roshar, it isn't going to go well for the Radiant. No Stormlight, unless they have perfect gemstones, and even then it would be a highly limited amount, unless they are right next to a perpendicularity.

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1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Well, if the battle is on Scadrial, or any planet besides Roshar, it isn't going to go well for the Radiant. No Stormlight, unless they have perfect gemstones, and even then it would be a highly limited amount, unless they are right next to a perpendicularity.

Why would the Radiant be anywhere but Roshar? Even assuming they find a way off, they're going to carry stormlight, and even without stormlight they are still able to kill Mistborn, it just gets  a lot more difficult.

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Any planet but Roshar would put Radiants at a disadvantage. Even assuming they have enough Stormlight for the fight, most other Cosmere worlds have a higher gravity than Roshar and not by an insubstantial amount either. For the Radiant every movement would be more difficult and sluggish.

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13 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Any planet but Roshar would put Radiants at a disadvantage. Even assuming they have enough Stormlight for the fight, most other Cosmere worlds have a higher gravity than Roshar and not by an insubstantial amount either. For the Radiant every movement would be more difficult and sluggish.

You ignore the strength plate gives, they would barely notice.

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1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

You ignore the strength plate gives, they would barely notice.

They would notice. Even with the strength Plate gives, it still would lack compared to if they were on Roshar. The only Orders that would really be able to ignore it are Windrunners and Skybreakers

 

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59 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

They would notice. Even with the strength Plate gives, it still would lack compared to if they were on Roshar. The only Orders that would really be able to ignore it are Windrunners and Skybreakers

 

Brandon has compared plate to a +50 strength with men having a base of like 7 so, even if normal movement required 9 they won't notice.

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2 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Brandon has compared plate to a +50 strength with men having a base of like 7 so, even if normal movement required 9 they won't notice.

The issue, and it's one I'm not sure if Brandon has considered and it's definitly one the fandom doesn't fully appreciate. Growing up on a planet with lower gravity would make the average person physically weaker. So a Scadrian would be inherently stronger than a Rosharan. At less than 3/4 gravity, that would have a significant impact on their strength. Also, it doesn't matter how much stronger the Plate makes them, if they are used to how it feels on Roshar there is going to be a noticeable difference on another world. Gravity isn't something that can be ignored, no matter how strong you are (not counting the Gravitation Surge). 8 of the Orders would be reasonably affected by the higher gravity. Several of the feats shown on Roshar, by those with Plate and those without (such as jumping chasms for those with Plate or Parshendi) is likely only possible because of the lower gravity. I'm not discounting the strength of Plate (Dalinar caught a Chasmfiend after all) but someone used to how they can move on Roshar is in for a nasty surprise on Scadrial

Edited by StanLemon
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Something to consider while making debates

Kaladin glanced toward Rock, who stood over Amaram's body, looking down, the enormous bow held limply in one hand. How had he drawn it? Stormlight granted great endurance, but it didn't vastly improve strength.

Edited by StanLemon
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7 hours ago, StanLemon said:

The issue, and it's one I'm not sure if Brandon has considered and it's definitly one the fandom doesn't fully appreciate. Growing up on a planet with lower gravity would make the average person physically weaker. So a Scadrian would be inherently stronger than a Rosharan. At less than 3/4 gravity, that would have a significant impact on their strength. Also, it doesn't matter how much stronger the Plate makes them, if they are used to how it feels on Roshar there is going to be a noticeable difference on another world. Gravity isn't something that can be ignored, no matter how strong you are (not counting the Gravitation Surge). 8 of the Orders would be reasonably affected by the higher gravity. Several of the feats shown on Roshar, by those with Plate and those without (such as jumping chasms for those with Plate or Parshendi) is likely only possible because of the lower gravity. I'm not discounting the strength of Plate (Dalinar caught a Chasmfiend after all) but someone used to how they can move on Roshar is in for a nasty surprise on Scadrial

The debate is not Scadrian Vs. Rosharan it's Radiant Vs. Mistborn, Hoid has shown us that you don't need to come from either of those planets to be one. Plus Chromium is the one big advantage a Mb has over a Kr. What if the Knight radiant had access to the surge of gravitation? They would be able to stay high above where a Mistborn could reach, and even without it with a six foot long sword it's pretty easy to keep an opponent from touching you. Also Sanderson has already answered this:

Maria Goulet‏

Radiant vs. Mistborn: who wins?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on the situation and the Radiant order.

This seems to imply that some, if not most Radiant orders could take a Mistborn. I don't doubt that it some Radiant orders would be beaten. I just feel like saying the Mistborn is the most dangerous non-shard being in the Cosmere is a bit presumptuous.

Also Double post

Edited by HemalurgicStickBreaker
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