Mistborn vs Else

[Frustration]

Just now, Oltux72 said:

While it lasts. And it will last minutes. Metals in a vial will last years and inside the Mistborn all day long. If the Radiant can force a quick confrontation he will win. If.

It lasts longer the more oaths you have

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

If the Mistborn can just fly away, he has an advantage.

If your dealing with a Skybreaker, or Windrunner that is not an option

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, no. Hoid detected Shallan. THe Radiant has no equivalent of tin and bronze and that will hurt. Againto an extent that is dependent to an extreme degree on environment.

I already talked about this

27 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

It's bronze base metal is pulling alloy is pushing, and then what?  If the Mistborn knows about illusions then the lightweaver knows about Bronze and  puts an illusion on a sphere to stage an ambush

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes. A straight exchange of blows ends with a Radiant win. But can the Radiant force that situation. Either can potentially kill the other. A squashed head will end a Radiant. A sufficiently deep fall will also end him.

And how do you propose the Mistborn get's either of those things done? all while avoiding being touched I might add.

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

While in Plate. It won't be worn 24/7.

And mistborn won't have metals swallowed 24/7

[+Oltux72]

3 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

It lasts longer the more oaths you have

Yes, let it last an hour. And it spoils in storage. That is why mission is the necessary parameter. If the Mistborn can wait a week until the Radiant runs dry, he has an advantage. Again context.

3 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

If your dealing with a Skybreaker, or Windrunner that is not an option

Again, that depends on the environment. The Mistborn is more agile but slower in most environments. How well can he hide?

3 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

I already talked about this

Not in a convincing manner. The Radiant while he is invested and using his powers will be detectable (maybe not Lightweavers or Truthwatchers). And tin and electrum will still work.

3 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

And how do you propose the Mistborn get's either of those things done? all while avoiding being touched I might add.

And mistborn won't have metals swallowed 24/7

A surprise attack at night would be the easiest option. Yes the Radiant has overkill. But dead is dead. The Mistborn has an advantage in that he has tin and bronze and does not glow at night. But it is not absolute. Yet there is the problem. This turns into a contest of tactics and skill of the fighters, not their powers. And of course it again depends on the environment. How easily can you hide?

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes, let it last an hour. And it spoils in storage. That is why mission is the necessary parameter. If the Mistborn can wait a week until the Radiant runs dry, he has an advantage. Again context.

If you Radiant can come in repeatedly multiple times and force the Mistborn to use Atium then they will run out That trick is not mutually exclusive

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Again, that depends on the environment. The Mistborn is more agile but slower in most environments. How well can he hide?

Wrong Radiants are faster and more maneuverable as they can go in all directions until they run out of stormlight.

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Not in a convincing manner. The Radiant while he is invested and using his powers will be detectable (maybe not Lightweavers or Truthwatchers). And tin and electrum will still work.

Electrum is not exactly the most useful thing, especially when you can use other metals, an electrum Misting maybe but I doubt Mistborn would take the time to learn how to use it.

5 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

A surprise attack at night would be the easiest option. Yes the Radiant has overkill. But dead is dead. The Mistborn has an advantage in that he has tin and bronze and does not glow at night. But it is not absolute. Yet there is the problem. This turns into a contest of tactics and skill of the fighters, not their powers. And of course it again depends on the environment. How easily can you hide?

 A Radiant would have to be stupid or the Mistborn stupidly over prepared in order for  any outcome other than a Radiant win.

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Windrunner: Fly outmaneuver the slower more erratic Mistborn and Sharblade them in the back

The Mistborn burns Atium, then stabs the Windrunner through the eyeslit with an aluminum dagger. Dead Radiant.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Skybreaker: Fly outmaneuver the slower more erratic Mistborn and Sharblade/ division them in the back

The mistborn burns Atium, dodges the Division/Shardblade, then burns duraluminum and pewter, punching through the Radiant's chestplate, then burns Chromium while touching the Skybreakers chest. They then shoot the almost immobile Radiant with a dozen or so coins. 

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Dustbringer: (assuming abrasion works the same as edgedancer) Slide around confuse then Sharblade/ division

Mistborn: Flys into the air and hovers above the Dustbringer shooting coins and waiting for them to run out of Stormlight.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Edgedancer: Slide around completely heal from anything, and then Shardblade

Same as Dustbringer.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Truthwatcher: Observe your opponent know what they are doing, completely heal from everything and wait for it... Shardblade

Barrage of metal objects.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Lightweaver: Create distracer illusion, the Shardblade/soulcast

Detect the illusions with bronze, then wait for the Lightweaver to attempt to soulcast you, start burning all your metals as soon as they do, and kill them while they're distracted.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Elsecaller: Soulcast from CR

Die.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Willshaper: Shardblade

Float above them barraging them with metal until they run out of stormlight, then swoop in for the kill.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Stoneward: Trap opponent in case of solid rock then Shardblade 

float above the ground and pepper the Stoneward with metal, then swoop in for the kill once they run out of stormlight.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Bondsmith: Punch them until they stop moving and then remove the head.

Lots of metal throwing, followed by aluminum daggers.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

The Mistborn burns Atium, then stabs the Windrunner through the eyeslit with an aluminum dagger. Dead Radiant.

how is the Mistborn supposed to hit the Radiant with a dagger when they have a Lance/blade? and Atium can't make up for speed.

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Mistborn: Flys into the air and hovers above the Dustbringer shooting coins and waiting for them to run out of Stormlight.

And what do you do when they go inside? or divide your coins?

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Same as Dustbringer.

Regrowth/same as dustbringer

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Barrage of metal objects.

Again regrowth and just endless metal probably wouldn't break plate, even regular plate could take that so long as the Mistborn didn't keep pushing, and Shardplate weighs more than they do so your Mistborn goes flying

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Detect the illusions with bronze, then wait for the Lightweaver to attempt to soulcast you, start burning all your metals as soon as they do, and kill them while they're distracted.

Assuming you have time before becoming fire.

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Float above them barraging them with metal until they run out of stormlight, then swoop in for the kill.

again just throwing metal won't break plate

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

float above the ground and pepper the Stoneward with metal, then swoop in for the kill once they run out of stormlight.

Even assuming that you could break shardplate they just create a stone block above themselves and wait for you to run out of steel

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Lots of metal throwing, followed by aluminum daggers.

 again plate, immune to just standard metal, and Bondsmiths can generate Stormlight so good luck just waiting them out.

[NameIess]

33 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

how is the Mistborn supposed to hit the Radiant with a dagger when they have a Lance/blade? and Atium can't make up for speed.

Atium lets you see exactly what your opponent is going to do. Atium Mistings that burned it were instantly turned from three hundred ordinary soldiers into three hundred killing machines that slaughtered their way through thousands of Kolloss. The Mistborn could just dodge the Radiant's blade, get up close, and ram an aluminum dagger through their faceplate.

34 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

And what do you do when they go inside? or divide your coins?

Collapse the building on top of them, or just shoot too many coins at them.

35 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Again regrowth and just endless metal probably wouldn't break plate, even regular plate could take that so long as the Mistborn didn't keep pushing, and Shardplate weighs more than they do so your Mistborn goes flying

So get something a little bigger. A doorknob or something similar is exponentially bigger than a coin, and coins already go straight through people with no porblem.

37 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Assuming you have time before becoming fire.

Burn electrum. It should be fairly easy to tell when you suddenly turn into fire and burn your metals.

38 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Even assuming that you could break shardplate they just create a stone block above themselves and wait for you to run out of steel

Then you land away from them and watch them. Stormlight doesn't last forever.

39 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

 again plate, immune to just standard metal, and Bondsmiths can generate Stormlight so good luck just waiting them out.

Then go up close and melee them. They don't have a Shardblade or any offensive surges, and they might not even have Plate! Atium burning wins this every time.

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Atium lets you see exactly what your opponent is going to do. Atium Mistings that burned it were instantly turned from three hundred ordinary soldiers into three hundred killing machines that slaughtered their way through thousands of Kolloss. The Mistborn could just dodge the Radiant's blade, get up close, and ram an aluminum dagger through their faceplate.

That's like saying Batman can beat Flash because he knows where he is going to be hit, FlashRadiant is faster so all BatMistborn can do is watch as they die.

As  to the Mistfallen exactly how many of them survived? You forget That Hazekillers are a thing normal people can kill Mistborn.

7 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Collapse the building on top of them, or just shoot too many coins at them.

How do you collapse a building!!??! We are talking about a Mistborn keep your Fullborn out of this.

8 minutes ago, Nameless said:

So get something a little bigger. A doorknob or something similar is exponentially bigger than a coin, and coins already go straight through people with no problem.

Bigger is not better and the Coins going through people is irrelevant. Tod's workshop has an amazing video on You Tube about Arrows versus Armour and 160 draw weight bow was ineffective, what makes you think that coins would be different?

16 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Burn electrum. It should be fairly easy to tell when you suddenly turn into fire and burn your metals.

Could work but nothing stops them from trying again.

19 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Then you land away from them and watch them. Stormlight doesn't last forever.

As I said if you land They will trap you in rock prison then what do you do?

20 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Then go up close and melee them. They don't have a Shardblade or any offensive surges, and they might not even have Plate! Atium burning wins this every time.

If they don't have plate that could be a problem, but I think they do and that let's them move quicker and hit Harder than any Mistborn can manage

22 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Atium burning wins this every time.

Steelheart minor spoilers

Spoiler

Does Forunity win everytime? Nope

It's still a Brandon Novel so we can assume the same logic would apply here.

[NameIess]

6 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

That's like saying Batman can beat Flash because he knows where he is going to be hit, FlashRadiant is faster so all BatMistborn can do is watch as they die.

As  to the Mistfallen exactly how many of them survived? You forget That Hazekillers are a thing normal people can kill Mistborn.

Oh. I'm sorry. I didn't know Radiants had super-speed. My bad. The Misfallen died because they ran out of Atium. Those Hazekillers didn't have much luck killing a Mistborn without Atium, they mainly just distracted them, while allomancers came to back them up.

9 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

How do you collapse a building!!??! We are talking about a Mistborn keep your Fullborn out of this.

Duraluminum push/pull.

10 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Could work but nothing stops them from trying again.

Except that the Radiant now has a minor case of aluminum dagger in their head.

10 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

As I said if you land They will trap you in rock prison then what do you do?

You land 100 feet away, or on top of a building. Their abilities have limits.

11 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

If they don't have plate that could be a problem, but I think they do and that let's them move quicker and hit Harder than any Mistborn can manage

With Atium that is completely negated.

12 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Steelheart minor spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Does Forunity win everytime? Nope

It's still a Brandon Novel so we can assume the same logic would apply here.

Minor Steelheart spoilers:

Spoiler

A "spider-sense" is much different than seeing exactly what your opponent is going to do. With Atium, the Mistborn is pretty much unkillable. It wouold be 100 times harder  to checkmate them, as they would see that you're going to try it.

 

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Oh. I'm sorry. I didn't know Radiants had super-speed. My bad. The Misfallen died because they ran out of Atium. Those Hazekillers didn't have much luck killing a Mistborn without Atium, they mainly just distracted them, while allomancers came to back them up.

Kelsier Struggled with just them, and this is the guy that killed an inquisitor so, Hazekillers can beat Mistborn Kelsier is what we might call unusually talented.

And yes Radiants with Gravitation are superfast, when you can literally pick any direction and apply as many multipliers of gravity in that direction as you wish, than yeah Mistborn is virtually a sitting duck.

7 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Duraluminum push/pull.

Push flings them far enough away that the Radiant can recover, and a pull kills the Mistborn. And the whole building wouldn't fall that would imply a very low structural integrity.

9 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Except that the Radiant now has a minor case of aluminum dagger in their head.

Assuming that said Mistborn can get there in time, and can get through plate, and the Lightweaver isn't an archer as well.

10 minutes ago, Nameless said:

You land 100 feet away, or on top of a building. Their abilities have limits.

yeah like hundreds of feet of cliff, oh wait. 

12 minutes ago, Nameless said:

With Atium that is completely negated.

No it isn't Sharplate makes them faster they can say out of the way long enough for either Atium to fail or Checkmate whichever comes first.

And with all of these you ignore Plate Dalinar held a ChasmFiend, a thousand plus pound creature, with dead plate. And with how impenitible it is there isn't a thing the Mistborn can do about it plate is the automatic win card.

[NameIess]

4 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

And yes Radiants with Gravitation are superfast, when you can literally pick any direction and apply as many multipliers of gravity in that direction as you wish, than yeah Mistborn is virtually a sitting duck.

Their reaction speed is the same as the Mistborn's, so the Mistborn can simply cut them out of the air.

5 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Push flings them far enough away that the Radiant can recover, and a pull kills the Mistborn. And the whole building wouldn't fall that would imply a very low structural integrity.

Pushing on one point in the support, and pulling on a lower one, while using pewter to keep yourself alive.

6 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Assuming that said Mistborn can get there in time, and can get through plate, and the Lightweaver isn't an archer as well.

The Lightweaver is in the Cognitive trying to soulcast.

6 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

yeah like hundreds of feet of cliff, oh wait. 

The Radiant was making handholds as they climbed. They didn't do the whole thing, then climb up.

7 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

No it isn't Sharplate makes them faster they can say out of the way long enough for either Atium to fail or Checkmate whichever comes first.

Hard to run away when they know what you're going to do before you do it. You try to back away, they shoot a perfectly aimed coin into your eyeslit. You don't seem to realize how OP Atium is.

8 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

And with all of these you ignore Plate Dalinar held a ChasmFiend, a thousand plus pound creature, with dead plate. And with how impenitible it is there isn't a thing the Mistborn can do about it plate is the automatic win card.

It doesn't matter how strong plate is, because if you can't hit your enemy, it won't matter. Also, the Parshendi managed to crack plate with an over-sized sling, the Mistborn can definitely generate more force than that.

[Frustration]

6 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Their reaction speed is the same as the Mistborn's, so the Mistborn can simply cut them out of the air.

1. Radiant has a Spren so they are more aware
2. The Radiant doesn't need any reaction speed, just hit the Mistborn with your body Plat will protect you

8 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Pushing on one point in the support, and pulling on a lower one, while using pewter to keep yourself alive.

Then the Mistborn is out of three metals while the Radiant is fine, Dalinar took a several hundred foot fall through several  houses again  in dead plate

10 minutes ago, Nameless said:

The Lightweaver is in the Cognitive trying to soulcast.

1. The archer thing is an alternative to soulcasting
2. When the Spren realises soulcasting wont work the Radiant will be informed
3. Again plate

13 minutes ago, Nameless said:

The Radiant was making handholds as they climbed. They didn't do the whole thing, then climb up.

They managed to warp stone for a significant distance away from themselves

13 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Hard to run away when they know what you're going to do before you do it. You try to back away, they shoot a perfectly aimed coin into your eyeslit. You don't seem to realize how OP Atium is.

1. I won't deny that I could be underplaying Atium, but logic dictates that even if you could see what someone is going to do before they do it, if they move faster than you it doesn't matter
2. Do you know how small eye slits are? a coin would not fit through there.

15 minutes ago, Nameless said:

It doesn't matter how strong plate is, because if you can't hit your enemy, it won't matter. Also, the Parshendi managed to crack plate with an over-sized sling, the Mistborn can definitely generate more force than that.

1. I agree if you can't hit your enemy it won't matter so how do you propose a Mistborn breaks plate and gets a hit in before it is fixed
2. Keyword there is crack not break, and I would say that is more a misunderstanding of Brandon on how hard regular plate is.

[NameIess]

4 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

• Radiant has a Spren so they are more aware
• The Radiant doesn't need any reaction speed, just hit the Mistborn with your body Plat will protect you

The Mistborn could simply burn Atium, see exactly were the Radiant will be, throw a dagger at were the Radiants eyeslit will be, then dodge. Atium allows you to process all the information you get. It allows you to see a certain amount of time into the future, so speed won't help the Radiant unless they have better reaction speed.

6 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Then the Mistborn is out of three metals while the Radiant is fine, Dalinar took a several hundred foot fall through several  houses again  in dead plate

1. Dalinar's Plate was basically ruined afterwards.

2. Dalinar's fall was cushioned by a building.

3. Rosharan gravity is lower than on other planets.

4. The point was to get rid of the Radiant's cover.

5. The Mistborn can just swallow some more metals.

8 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

• The archer thing is an alternative to soulcasting
• When the Spren realises soulcasting wont work the Radiant will be informed
• Again plate

1. Archery against someone who can push the arrows with their mind?

2. The Radiant will only realize this after they've devoted themsleves to it.

3. Dagger through the eyeslit.

10 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

They managed to warp stone for a significant distance away from themselves

Not significant enough that the Mistborn can't see it coming and dodge.

11 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

• I won't deny that I could be underplaying Atium, but logic dictates that even if you could see what someone is going to do before they do it, if they move faster than you it doesn't matter
• Do you know how small eye slits are? a coin would not fit through there.

1. Actually, logic dictates that if I see exactly were the blow is going to land, I can dodge easily.

2. Kaladin got an entire spearhead through one, so coins could definitely fit.

13 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

• I agree if you can't hit your enemy it won't matter so how do you propose a Mistborn breaks plate and gets a hit in before it is fixed
• Keyword there is crack not break, and I would say that is more a misunderstanding of Brandon on how hard regular plate is.

1. Duraluminum-pewter punch, followed by chromium.

2. Even if live Plate regens faster, it will probably take a lot of Stormlight, and as such cracking it would be very useful for draining the Radiants Stormlight.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

The Mistborn could simply burn Atium, see exactly were the Radiant will be, throw a dagger at were the Radiants eyeslit will be, then dodge. Atium allows you to process all the information you get. It allows you to see a certain amount of time into the future, so speed won't help the Radiant unless they have better reaction speed.

Lash themselves toward Mistborn until they break the Sound barrier, dodge that.

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

1. Dalinar's Plate was basically ruined afterwards.

2. Dalinar's fall was cushioned by a building.

3. Rosharan gravity is lower than on other planets.

4. The point was to get rid of the Radiant's cover.

5. The Mistborn can just swallow some more metals.

Dalinar's plate was dead, and that was more extreme

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

1. Archery against someone who can push the arrows with their mind?

2. The Radiant will only realize this after they've devoted themsleves to it.

3. Dagger through the eyeslit.

1. There are stone arrowheads, or obsidian
2. Put the decoy far enough away you can get out with enough time

7 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Not significant enough that the Mistborn can't see it coming and dodge.

Perhaps

8 minutes ago, Nameless said:

1. Actually, logic dictates that if I see exactly were the blow is going to land, I can dodge easily.

2. Kaladin got an entire spearhead through one, so coins could definitely fit.

1. If you know where I'm going to hit but I move twice as fast I'm going to hit you
2. It was a knife not a sear

11 minutes ago, Nameless said:

1. Duraluminum-pewter punch, followed by chromium.

2. Even if live Plate regens faster, it will probably take a lot of Stormlight, and as such cracking it would be very useful for draining the Radiants Stormlight.

1. And when you get knocked down? hen what
2. And it takes all the pewter and some Dur-aluminum from the Mistborn I think the Radiant gets the better end of the deal as it get's the Mistborn close and they have to turn Atium off before or won't have any after

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Booknerd said:

Lash themselves toward Mistborn until they break the Sound barrier, dodge that.

Okay. Easy. They can see a few seconds into the future. They dodge that. Now the Radiant is out of Stormlight, and the Mistborn still has plenty of Atium left.

2 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Dalinar's plate was dead, and that was more extreme

We don't know if live Plate actually increases in strength, and all of my points still stand.

3 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

• There are stone arrowheads, or obsidian
• Put the decoy far enough away you can get out with enough time

1. So the Mistborn dodges them.

2. You mean the decoy that the Mistborn knew was a decoy and ignored?

4 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

• If you know where I'm going to hit but I move twice as fast I'm going to hit you
• It was a knife not a sear

1. Plate doesn't give that much of an advantage against normal people, let alone a pewter-enhanced Mistborn.

2. The Mistborn has 3 or 4 times as much time to dodge, no problem.

3. It was a spear. Kaladin tried to hit the Shardbearer with a knife throw, but he missed. His spearhead had been cut off, and he grabbed that and slammed it through the eye slit.

7 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

• And when you get knocked down? hen what
• And it takes all the pewter and some Dur-aluminum from the Mistborn I think the Radiant gets the better end of the deal as it get's the Mistborn close and they have to turn Atium off before or won't have any after

 1. Knocked down by what?

2. The Radiant is out of stormlight, they can't summon their Shardblade, their armor has a whole  in it's chest and has locked up, and they have a Mistborn holding an aluminum daggers already touching them with one hand. Mistborn wins.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Okay. Easy. They can see a few seconds into the future. They dodge that. Now the Radiant is out of Stormlight, and the Mistborn still has plenty of Atium left.

Wow if only people had realised you could dodge bullets, that would be so helpful.

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

We don't know if live Plate actually increases in strength, and all of my points still stand.

Falling into the rift is a lot more damaging than a building falling on you

4 minutes ago, Nameless said:

1. So the Mistborn dodges them.

2. You mean the decoy that the Mistborn knew was a decoy and ignored?

1. Man if only Amaram had thought of that
2. Are they Mistborn or Omniscient?

5 minutes ago, Nameless said:

1. Plate doesn't give that much of an advantage against normal people, let alone a pewter-enhanced Mistborn.

2. The Mistborn has 3 or 4 times as much time to dodge, no problem.

1.  uh, yes it does, this is something that takes a long time to control it is more than just stronger it gives you speed
2. And the Bondsmith has more chances to hit, eventually the Mistborn fails to move in time

11 minutes ago, Nameless said:

3. It was a spear. Kaladin tried to hit the Shardbearer with a knife throw, but he missed. His spearhead had been cut off, and he grabbed that and slammed it through the eye slit.

Brandon what sort of crap are you writing there is a reason visors exist it's because seeing out of a helmet is hard due to small eye slit/holes no standard spear is making it in.

14 minutes ago, Nameless said:

1. Knocked down by what?

2. The Radiant is out of stormlight, they can't summon their Shardblade, their armor has a whole  in it's chest and has locked up, and they have a Mistborn holding an aluminum daggers already touching them with one hand. Mistborn wins.

1.   (I originally meant the force of breaking armor) The Radiant, do you think they are just going to sit there? Even if you dodge under their swing, they kick you, it is insanely hard to hit someone who sees you coming(unless you are moving faster) without getting hit yourself. And don't even start on sneaking up on then, they have a spren and they will see you
2. Again if you can land the hit first.

 

[+Oltux72]

One thing more, unless the Mistborn is surprised or in a desperate hurry, the fight will be at night. That is the time Mistborn operature and where tin and bronze give them the largest advantage. Especially against a glowing enemy.

A question that was neglected in this thread is the mobility and sensory of the Radiant's spren. Also the assumption that an exchange of blows would come quickly and would last. That is highly unlikely. People wish to live. What you would rather see is a game of hide and seek, where one party strikes at a perceived clear advantage, the other party setting traps and the attacker quickly retreating and the attacked fleeing, unless at a clear advantage. Such a fight would last for days.

Also some orders of Radiants have a capacity to construct fortifications and weapons. They will use it..

[NameIess]

14 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Wow if only people had realised you could dodge bullets, that would be so helpful.

If you can see exactly were the bullet is going to land, then yes, you can. 

Minor Steelheart spoilers:

Spoiler

Fortuity can dodge, bullets, and he only has a danger sense, not the ability to see a few seconds into the future.

 

14 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Falling into the rift is a lot more damaging than a building falling on you

The primary point is to get the Radiant out of cover.

14 hours ago, Booknerd said:

• Man if only Amaram had thought of that
• Are they Mistborn or Omniscient?

1. Man, if only Amaram had been in a fit state of mind, critically injured, and Rock hadn't shot him in the back.

2. As I said, allomantic bronze can detect illusions.

15 hours ago, Booknerd said:

•  uh, yes it does, this is something that takes a long time to control it is more than just stronger it gives you speed
• And the Bondsmith has more chances to hit, eventually the Mistborn fails to move in time

1. Yes, but even if it makes you 2x as fast as a  normal person, a Mistborn with pewter is fast enough that with Atium, they can still dodge easily.

2. Why? Atium lets you react to everything, so that won't happen until the Mistborn runs out.

14 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Brandon what sort of crap are you writing there is a reason visors exist it's because seeing out of a helmet is hard due to small eye slit/holes no standard spear is making it in.

Well, it did.

14 hours ago, Booknerd said:

•   (I originally meant the force of breaking armor) The Radiant, do you think they are just going to sit there? Even if you dodge under their swing, they kick you, it is insanely hard to hit someone who sees you coming(unless you are moving faster) without getting hit yourself. And don't even start on sneaking up on then, they have a spren and they will see you
• Again if you can land the hit first.

1. Atium? Regular people with Atium were able to slaughter their way through Kolloss that are about 4-5 times stronger than normal people, and have six foot long swords. A Mistborn will have no problem.

2. Atium? Seriously, the Radiant can't beat Atium. I have argued for a Radiant beating a Mistborn in the past. I still think that the Radiant cannot beat the Mistborn in close combat with Atium involved.

[StanLemon]

One thing I've noticed in this debate on the pro-radiant side is a lot of assumptions without book backing. First, there is zero evidence that living plate is tougher than regular plate. I've seen a post about the belief that living plate didn't have eye slits, but Dalinar's vision contradicts that. A lot of pro-radiant side people are making arguments about metal running out but ignore that Stormlight would also run out, and unlike Mistborn, the same source of Stormlight powers ALL of their powers so they are likelyto run out of their power source before a Mistborn.  Brandon has said that an Atium Misting could beat a Radiant, so a Mistborn is even more likely to win with Atium.

While I have said before, I do believe that the average 5th Ideal Radiant would more often than not win against an average Mistborn. What I'm tired of is the belief that Radiants are unstoppable though. The desolation prove that isn't the case. We already have seen exploitable weaknesses in Plate and with Radiants. 

[NameIess]

3 hours ago, StanLemon said:

While I have said before, I do believe that the average 5th Ideal Radiant would more often than not win against an average Mistborn. What I'm tired of is the belief that Radiants are unstoppable though. The desolation prove that isn't the case. We already have seen exploitable weaknesses in Plate and with Radiants.

I agree.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, StanLemon said:

One thing I've noticed in this debate on the pro-radiant side is a lot of assumptions without book backing. First, there is zero evidence that living plate is tougher than regular plate. I've seen a post about the belief that living plate didn't have eye slits, but Dalinar's vision contradicts that. A lot of pro-radiant side people are making arguments about metal running out but ignore that Stormlight would also run out, and unlike Mistborn, the same source of Stormlight powers ALL of their powers so they are likelyto run out of their power source before a Mistborn.  Brandon has said that an Atium Misting could beat a Radiant, so a Mistborn is even more likely to win with Atium.

While I have said before, I do believe that the average 5th Ideal Radiant would more often than not win against an average Mistborn. What I'm tired of is the belief that Radiants are unstoppable though. The desolation prove that isn't the case. We already have seen exploitable weaknesses in Plate and with Radiants. 

You forget that the desolations where fought against hundred foot monsters of stone, and creatures that can take Shardblade hits.

Two the visions also don't show Shardblades taking multiple forms but we know for a fact it happens.

Third a Radiant doesn't need Stormlight to be powerful they still have shards take away a Mistborns metals and they are powerless.

Fourth Atium is not an instant win card, Yomen had Atium but Elend still got away, and Radiant s can move faster and more accurately.

7 hours ago, Nameless said:

If you can see exactly were the bullet is going to land, then yes, you can. 

Minor Steelheart spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Fortuity can dodge, bullets, and he only has a danger sense, not the ability to see a few seconds into the future.

 

With something the size of a person moving that fast even if you do Dodge(which they won't) The shockwave will incapacitate the Mistborn.

 

7 hours ago, Nameless said:

1. Man, if only Amaram had been in a fit state of mind, critically injured, and Rock hadn't shot him in the back.

2. As I said, allomantic bronze can detect illusions.

1. If your back is turned then good luck

2. Yes, the decoy Illusion.

[StanLemon]

2 hours ago, Booknerd said:

You forget that the desolations where fought against hundred foot monsters of stone, and creatures that can take Shardblade hits.

What creatures take Shardblade hits?

2 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Two the visions also don't show Shardblades taking multiple forms but we know for a fact it happens.

They don't show the Radiants in battle at all. Also, the see through part of Plate is described as not purely transparent, that the slits are still necessary for proper vision

2 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Third a Radiant doesn't need Stormlight to be powerful they still have shards take away a Mistborns metals and they are powerless.

Without Stormlight they only have their Blade, dangerous but as we have seen in the books, not unstoppable by any means

2 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Fourth Atium is not an instant win card, Yomen had Atium but Elend still got away, and Radiant s can move faster and more accurately.

Yomen never even tried to stop Elend personally. Yes, it isn't an instant win card but it's damnation near close to one. Kaladin being a nigh impossibly skilled at fighting might be able to overcome it but most Radiants wouldn't be able to

Also, Radiants don't move faster and especially not more accurately. Stormlight doesn't give them better dexterity like Pewter does, and other than Edgedancers they don't show any ground speed faster than Pewter gives.

 

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

What creatures take Shardblade hits?

Some fused can.  At least on certain parts of there bodies.

5 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

They don't show the Radiants in battle at all

Not true.  We have seen brief instances of engagements of both a stoneward and an edgedancer in OB and WoR respectively.

6 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Without Stormlight they only have their Blade, dangerous but as we have seen in the books, not unstoppable by any means

And plate potentially.  This is enough to stand against a Mistborn at close range provided that they don't have a huge atium serplus.

7 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Yomen never even tried to stop Elend personally. Yes, it isn't an instant win card but it's damnation near close to one. Kaladin being a nigh impossibly skilled at fighting might be able to overcome it but most Radiants wouldn't be able to

Atium is actually not super amazing against an opponent that can afford to make a few mistakes.  It runs out too quickly and it the right radiant can checkmate you with a bit of effort.

9 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Also, Radiants don't move faster and especially not more accurately

Stormlight "perfects" according to Teft in WoKs and according to Kaladin in WoR it does increase speed as well.

10 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Stormlight doesn't give them better dexterity like Pewter does, and other than Edgedancers they don't show any ground speed faster than Pewter gives.

If it increases there speed then it should increase their balance and general dexterity.  Shallan is also able to keep pace with and then outrun several members of her guard who are probably in better shape then her and have longer legs.

[StanLemon]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Some fused can.  At least on certain parts of there bodies.

I must not be able to recall that, because I can't think of an example in the books. I'd appreciate one.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Not true.  We have seen brief instances of engagements of both a stoneward and an edgedancer in OB and WoR respectively.

Admittedly I did forget this.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

And plate potentially.  This is enough to stand against a Mistborn at close range provided that they don't have a huge atium serplus.

Plate without Stormlight is a hindrance, not a boon. Without Stormlight it is a bunch of heavy metal you are lugging along.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Atium is actually not super amazing against an opponent that can afford to make a few mistakes.  It runs out too quickly and it the right radiant can checkmate you with a bit of effort.

Brandon disagrees. He straight up said that an Atium Misting could beat Kaladin. 

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Stormlight "perfects" according to Teft in WoKs and according to Kaladin in WoR it does increase speed as well.

I never said it didn't increase speed. But they haven't done any feats of speed greater than Pewter. And "perfects" is a stretch to say that it does all the things Pewter does.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

If it increases there speed then it should increase their balance and general dexterity.  Shallan is also able to keep pace with and then outrun several members of her guard who are probably in better shape then her and have longer legs.

Actually no, you can move faster without having better dexterity or balance. Why "should" it increase balance and dexterity? Steel Feruchemy doesn't. Speed can be explained via the increase of strength Stormlight gives

[Agent34]

4 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Brandon disagrees. He straight up said that an Atium Misting could beat Kaladin. 

Quote

Questioner

Who do you think would win, an atium misting, or Kaladin with Syl?

Brandon Sanderson

The atium misting, as long as they have enough atium, is probably got an advantage, but Kaladin can fly. So, I would bet on Kaladin, meaning he flies up high, waits 'til they run out of atium, then gets them.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

The WoB in question.

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Agent34 said:

The WoB in question.

Well, Kaladin has only Blade, not Plate. A Mistborn who is evaded in that matter would seek to hide himself while observing the Windrunner. While a Mistborn would likely run out of Atium before Kaladin runs out of Stormlight, Kaladin likely runs out of Stormlight before a Mistborn runs out of tin.

Then this turns into a game of hide and seek.