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The Kraken's Daughter

Why that particular spren?

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At the very end of OB, Hoid retrieves the Cryptic that was about to bond with Elhokar. He says he thinks the reason he came to Kholinar may have been to find that spren. I find myself wondering what's so special about this particular spren? It's described as small and trembling, so clearly it's upset by having lost its Radiant. (Thanks fer nuthin', Moash.) But I don't get the impression that this is just a random act of kindness like him uniting the little orphaned girl with the woman who lost her baby. This feels like something that's meant to have a larger importance, and I'm curious if any Sharders have theories about why. Could this Cryptic be its species' equivalent of an Ancient Daughter, a spren that was made in an earlier era and might have knowledge about Aharietiam and/or the Recreance? Is it some sort of leader among the spren that could give whoever bonds it extra influence in Shadesmar? Something else?

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I think it was just because Hoid really wanted Rosharan Lightweaving. 

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Lightweaving is best suited to Hoid's nature.

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Mhm. He wanted to be a Lightweaver, and that meant finding a Cryptic who'd been trying to bond somebody who didn't survive, and would be willing to bond whoever else came along out of desperation. That's a pretty specific set of requirements.

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10 hours ago, The Kraken's Daughter said:

At the very end of OB, Hoid retrieves the Cryptic that was about to bond with Elhokar. He says he thinks the reason he came to Kholinar may have been to find that spren. I find myself wondering what's so special about this particular spren?

I think it's because without Hoid interfering, the spren would have been found and killed by the Fused (it was hiding from them and they were tearing down the walls of the palace to find him). The way it went now, it lived and could become another person's Radiant spren, making it possible for other Cryptics to find other Radiants. And that means a lot. The whole battle of Thaylen Fields was won by a total of seven Radiants ... so every single spren saved and every single Radiant more means a great deal of benefit for the alliance and a great deal of pain for the Fused.

Edited by Elegy
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24 minutes ago, Elegy said:

I think it's because without Hoid interfering, the spren would have been found and killed by the Fused (it was hiding from them and they were tearing down the walls of the palace to find him). The way it went now, it lived and could become another person's Radiant spren, making it possible for other Cryptics to find other Radiants. And that means a lot. The whole battle of Thaylen Fields was won by a total of seven Radiants ... so every single spren saved and every single Radiant more means a great deal of benefit for the alliance and a great deal of pain for the Fused.

Seven radiants and Nightblood.

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Nightblood wasn't super helpful during that battle. He took down a Thunderclast and then almost killed two of the radiants. 

But really the most significant factor in that battle going the way it did was Dalinar giving everyone unlimited Stormlight. Jasnah and Shallan aren't gonna be taking down an army by themselves under normal circumstances. 

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Just stumbled over this relevant WOB:

Quote

Hoidonalsium

Was Hoid's Cryptic the same one that was meant for Elhokar?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Hoidonalsium

Is there anything more to the Cryptic than Pattern? Like Shallan's Pattern?

Brandon Sanderson

There's more to every individual! But it is not a more powerful Cryptic or anything like that.

Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

 

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On 12/22/2019 at 11:20 PM, Invocation said:

I think it was just because Hoid really wanted Rosharan Lightweaving. 

I agree, Hoid seems to be trying to collect every type of magic that he can possibly get around the Cosmere.

I don't think that there was anything really special about the Cryptic because regardless of who got it in the end, it was meant for Elhokar first.

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As @Elegy's wob proves, it's not an unusually powerful cryptic in any particular way.  There are tons of reasons that Hoid would want to bond a Cryptic (Lightweaving, Soulcasting, Truths rather than Oaths, etc.) but that doesnt answer why Hoid went to the effort to reach that one, and not some random one hanging around the Palanaeum. 

I think the reason he needed That particular Cyrpic is that he needed one that was desperate enough to say "Yes" to bonding with something as decidedly warped and no longer Human as he is (which is probably as distasteful to the average Spren as hemalurgy would be).  That cryptic made it to the Physical Realm but then lost the Anchor that called him (Elokhar), leaving him with barely any mind and stuck where the Fused could kill (or worse, Corrupt) him.  Hoid was offering a Deal: "Bond with Me and Ill save you from all this, say No and you are likely to Die."

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16 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Hoid was offering a Deal: "Bond with Me and Ill save you from all this, say No and you are likely to Die."

On the nicer side he was saving that cryptic's life too at great personal risk.

Edited by Ookla the Prolific
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49 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

On the nicer side he was saving that cryptic's life too at great personal risk.

I didnt mean to make that sound like a threat or a strong-arm move, just the reality of the situation for the Cryptic, assuming Hoid didnt have some other way to save it.  

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I will need a moment to locate it but I believe there is a WoB that says Hoid wanted to become a knight radiant, which is why he was tracking the people becoming radiants, and he specifically wanted to become a lightweaver because of the illusion magics let him accomplish what he already does but "easier". Those might be a few WoB combined, but I am pretty sure there is one that is pretty explicit that he wants to be a lightweaver in particular. I will update when I pull them up. 

 

found them! (though I think there is one more to locate)

 

Stormlightning

If Hoid could have picked to join any order of the Knights Radiant, regardless of the Oaths he had to swear, just the powers, would he have picked Lightweaver?

Brandon Sanderson

He would have.

Stormlightning

Tell me more!

Brandon Sanderson

Lightweaving matches him very well, he's quite familiar with it and experienced with it. He's very good at using it and he likes it.

It's the fulfillment of a long, long quest of his to finally get full access to Lightweaving.

Stormlightning

Even though he had some sort of Lightweaving?

Brandon Sanderson

He did have some sort of, yes. He's a very very happy Hoid.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 7, 2018)

 

 

 

Kim Jenson

Does Hoid have any rules, self-imposed or otherwise, about how much he can interfere with what is going on on whatever planet he is currently on? And why does he take such an active part on Roshar, compared to the other planets he has visited?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid has a few rules of thumb, but he does not have the same rules that the Shards have to follow, which is basically one of the big points that makes Hoid do what he does. He has to watch out, because drawing their attention at the wrong time can be very dangerous. But that's not necessarily a rule, it's more of a "be careful." He's defined by the fact that he doesn't have to follow the rules. And he's also defined by the fact that he intervenes when a lot of others think that one should not intervene, as made evident by the chastisement he receives from Frost. So, I would say, no and yes. There are some weird limitations on him related to things in his past that you will find out about eventually, but those are not really about intervening.

Why Roshar more than others? There are a couple of reasons for this. One is: the way he is intervening on Roshar is something that is directly involving the main characters of the book I'm writing. He actually has done a lot on other planets as well, you just haven't seen it because he hasn't been as involved with the main characters. Why is he involved with the main characters? Well, he is trying to get to be a Knight Radiant, and he wants to be involved with the people who are becoming Knights Radiant, because he wants to figure out how that magic works and specifically how you can get off-world with it, which is the real trick on Roshar. So he, in this specific instance, is really involved with those characters because of that reason. A lot of the other places he will go, the magic is already extant, and it's not like Roshar, where the magic has not been around for a while. So he is kind of by necessity more involved in the plot.

YouTube Livestream (Jan. 11, 2020) Edited by Pathfinder
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So something that we do know is Hoid has an innate sense of where he has to be at certain times, not necessarily what he needs to do, but when and where to be somewhere. I think he realized the reason he felt that he had to be in Kholinar at the time was what he gained, being a spren bond. I don't believe the individual spren in itself is special besides the fact that this opportunity was a thing that was going to happen, if you catch my drift. 

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Ive always wondered if Hoid helped set up Elokar's death in some way, or if he was just at the right place at the right time. He keeps saying he will do evil things, and I am itching for this to be one of them. 

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On 1/15/2020 at 11:03 AM, Pathfinder said:

I will need a moment to locate it but I believe there is a WoB that says Hoid wanted to become a knight radiant, which is why he was tracking the people becoming radiants, and he specifically wanted to become a lightweaver because of the illusion magics let him accomplish what he already does but "easier". Those might be a few WoB combined, but I am pretty sure there is one that is pretty explicit that he wants to be a lightweaver in particular. I will update when I pull them up.

 

Thanks for finding those! Of course, Hoid wanting to become a Lightweaver raises questions of its own: What Truths would he speak to gain Lightweaver powers? I can think of two moments in SA that have felt like he was revealing something personal. One was when he told Dalinar that he shouldn't trust Hoid too much because he would "let this world crumble, with tears yes, but I would let it happen" if necessary to achieve his goals. The other is when he tells Shallan that he's old, and you get the definite impression that, as in many stories, immortality is not all it's cracked up to be. (That, in turn, makes me wonder if the goal he alluded to in the Dalinar quote is to find some way to stop being immortal. Then again, I don't know if Brandon would see that as too derivative, since mortality was the great prize in Highlander and possibly other stories dealing with immortality as well.)

 

On 1/19/2020 at 0:53 AM, teknopathetic said:

Ive always wondered if Hoid helped set up Elokar's death in some way, or if he was just at the right place at the right time. He keeps saying he will do evil things, and I am itching for this to be one of them. 

Yeah, that quote to Dalinar I referenced above makes me wonder when the other shoe's going to drop. I don't know about him setting up Elhokar's death, since he seemed to be working against the Fused a little bit (giving Azure those metal plates to shield the Soulcasters), but I suspect we are going to see him getting in the heroes' way at some point.

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