What are the Dawnshards

[Karger]

My favorite Dawnshard theory is that they are superfabrails that do surges(like soulcasters) but on a huge scale.  So they got An earth environment to Roshar by Transporting it From Ashyn and then used Cohesion and Tension to make it stay that way with mountains.

[Elegy]

8 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

My favorite Dawnshard theory is that they are superfabrails that do surges(like soulcasters) but on a huge scale.  So they got An earth environment to Roshar by Transporting it From Ashyn and then used Cohesion and Tension to make it stay that way with mountains.

Yep, it's the most plausible theory. The Shattered Plains might also be a result of superpowered Division. That would basically make them ... the Divided Plains!

[The Deity]

 

@SirWolfe That’s a good point I hadn’t considered that. I had always thought that grass in Shinovar survived because the highstorms couldn’t reach it. Though, it makes me wonder if they tried elsewhere. 

[Solant]

5 hours ago, Elegy said:

Yep, it's the most plausible theory. The Shattered Plains might also be a result of superpowered Division. That would basically make them ... the Divided Plains!

My favorite Shattered Plains theory is still the idea that it was done with super charged Lightweaving. A surge controlling light and sound waves could do a whole lot of damage in the hands of someone strong and sinister enough. 

[+Q10fanatic]

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Dawnshards as Surge-multipliers. To me, that sounds suspiciously close to the angreal/sa'angreal from WoT.

[mathiau]

If the dawnshard are big fabrals, maybe Urithiru is a dawnshard?

[Use the Falchion]

On 1/5/2020 at 11:41 AM, Q10fanatic said:

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Dawnshards as Surge-multipliers. To me, that sounds suspiciously close to the angreal/sa'angreal from WoT.

I mean, the Unmade (and more than one of the Heralds) have been compared to the Forsaken a couple of times by fans, so it's not too big of a leap. 

[+Child of Hodor]

6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

I mean, the Unmade (and more than one of the Heralds) have been compared to the Forsaken a couple of times by fans, so it's not too big of a leap. 

Yes, and the 10 orders of Knights Radiant are similar to the Aes Sedai's Ajahs. 

Each Order / Ajah is color coded and attracts people with certain personality / character traits.

Windrunners (Sapphire Blue) excel at leadership - Blue Ajah is focused on pursuing noble causes and one of their members is most often elected leader of all the Ajah's (Amyrlin Seat).

Elsecallers / Brown Ajah are focused on scholarship. 

Red Ajah hunts down male channelers / modern Skybreakers hunt down proto-radiants. 

Both are feared and reviled in society. KR are thought to have betrayed humanity long ago. Male Channelers go crazy. 

Both organizations are headquartered in a giant tower.  

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

Yes, and the 10 orders of Knights Radiant are similar to the Aes Sedai's Ajahs. 

Each Order / Ajah is color coded and attracts people with certain personality / character traits.

Windrunners (Sapphire Blue) excel at leadership - Blue Ajah is focused on pursuing noble causes and one of their members is most often elected leader of all the Ajah's (Amyrlin Seat).

Elsecallers / Brown Ajah are focused on scholarship. 

Red Ajah hunts down male channelers / modern Skybreakers hunt down proto-radiants. 

Both are feared and reviled in society. KR are thought to have betrayed humanity long ago. Male Channelers go crazy. 

Both organizations are headquartered in a giant tower.  

1. There are 7 Ajahs(8 if you count black)
2. Brandon has a thing with the number 10, and 16 look at most of his books you'll find them.
3. I was unaware that the Orders were color coded.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Booknerd

[Quantus]

3 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Brandon has a thing with the number 10, and 16 look at most of his books you'll find them.

Per WOB 16 is a Significant Number across the cosmere, 10 is Significant specifically within the Rosharan System (though he said Braize is uniquely 9-centric), and there is significant recurrence of the number Five surrounding Nalthis. 

3 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

I was unaware that the Orders were color coded.

Each Order has an associated Essence, gem etc, and each displays a corresponding "glow" color to their Stormlight, plate, etc.  Windrunners are Blue/Saphhire, for example, and we saw the pattern hold true for the other Orders that were shown in the Visions.  

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Ten_Essences

[Frustration]

8 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Per WOB 16 is a Significant Number across the cosmere, 10 is Significant specifically within the Rosharan System (though he said Braize is uniquely 9-centric), and there is significant recurrence of the number Five surrounding Nalthis. 

 

In Era 1 mistborn there are ten basic metal's In Warbreaker we see the 10 heightening at the top.

[Quantus]

1 minute ago, Booknerd said:

In Era 1 mistborn there are ten basic metal's In Warbreaker we see the 10 heightening at the top.

The metals at least are confirmed by WOB to just be a combination of in-world misunderstanding with active misinformation from the Lord Ruler, so there's no larger significance there.  Thats a lot of why Leras tried to use the number 16 as a clue to the people, and why it didnt really work (because they didnt know enough of the wider cosmere to recognize it).

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Quantus said:

The metals at least are confirmed by WOB to just be a combination of in-world misunderstanding with active misinformation from the Lord Ruler, so there's no larger significance there.  Thats a lot of why Leras tried to use the number 16 as a clue to the people, and why it didnt really work (because they didnt know enough of the wider cosmere to recognize it).

The number is still 10. just Like there are more heightenings but we only see 10.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Booknerd

[Quantus]

If you are just saying that the Number 10 was mentioned in the Era1 text, then sure because the discovery of the 11th was a major plot point.  But Im not sure I see your point?  We have WOB that it was just an in-world misunderstanding and not Cosmere significant, and we have another that 10 is only significant in the Rosharan system.  

[mathiau]

11 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

The number is still 10. just Like there are more heightenings but we only see 10.

There may be more than 10 heightenings.

In mistborn it was obvious from the start there was at least 11 metal and seemed likely their was 12, from the second book it was obvious there would be 16 metal.

also there was not 16 metals but at least 75

[Frustration]

11 minutes ago, Quantus said:

If you are just saying that the Number 10 was mentioned in the Era1 text, then sure because the discovery of the 11th was a major plot point.  But Im not sure I see your point?  We have WOB that it was just an in-world misunderstanding and not Cosmere significant, and we have another that 10 is only significant in the Rosharan system.  

I'm saying 10 shows up everywhere even outside of Roshar Just because it isn't "significant" doesn't mean it isn't there. Just like for Brandon Mull his number is 5 look at most any book and you'll find it 10  is just a default number to Sanderson.

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

I'm saying 10 shows up everywhere even outside of Roshar Just because it isn't "significant" doesn't mean it isn't there. Just like for Brandon Mull his number is 5 look at most any book and you'll find it 10  is just a default number to Sanderson.

And what Im saying is that according to Sanderson himself the appearance of the number 10 is not his "default" number by any stretch, rather it has meaning and significance to Roshar specifically.  Cosmere-wide the default Number of Significance is 16.  Ten is definitely going to show up in other places because, you know, people use numbers, but outside of Roshar the it's just  a 23 Enigma.  

 

Quote

 

Herald (paraphrased)

Is there more significance to the 10 other planets around the Rosharan star system and them being gaseous? We know that Roshar's moons have unnatural orbits; so there seems to be some astronomical manipulation in the system.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes there is significance of 16 in cosmere and 10 in Rosharan system.

Herald (paraphrased)

The outer 10 gas giants in the Rosharan system suggest a tie to the number 10 that predates the arrival of the current Shards. Is the prominent numerology we see around the cosmere an inherent property of the planets, rather than the Shards who invest them?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Big RAFO.

Herald (paraphrased)

Would Ashyn/Braize share the 10-centric numerology of Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes 10-centric is for the entire Rosharan planetary system...wait Braize is 9-centric.

Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016)

 

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

I'm just curious, there are 16 Allomantic metals, 16 Feruchemical metals, there are 16 Shards of Adonalsium. Are there 16 surges?

Brandon Sanderson

No.

Questioner

So there's no correlation?

Brandon Sanderson

10 is an important number on Roshar.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 7, 2018)

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Is there a reason, with 16 being such an important number, that there are only 10 orders of Radiants

Brandon Sanderson

That is relevant.

Questioner

Am I going to have to read and find out?

Brandon Sanderson

Let's just say 10 is a number that is relevant to Roshar and its inhabitants.

Questioner

And what's the significance of the number 10?

Brandon Sanderson

The significance is that it is very significant.

Questioner

Will we find out by reading it?

Brandon Sanderson

Maybe, that's why you're getting a RAFO. Potentially.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 7, 2018)

 

 

[Honorless]

Was the disaster of Ashyn a mistake? Or did something make the people consider it their last resort?

[Use the Falchion]

5 hours ago, Honorless said:

Was the disaster of Ashyn a mistake? Or did something make the people consider it their last resort?

Maybe a feint or calculated destruction? Make Ashyn looks so destroyed that whoever - whatever (Odium) - was targeting them simply deigned it no longer worth the effort? Maybe a feint gone wrong?

[Frustration]

I just found something that could be relevant in the ARS ARCANUM at the end of WoK we find this quote "I'm not certain yet how the ten levels of Voidbinding or it's cousin the Old Magic fit into this paradigm,[chart of essences] if indeed they can. My research suggests that indeed, there should be another series of abilities that is even more esoteric than the Voidbindings." This could be in reference to Surgebinding as that isn't specifically mentioned, but I think that it is indeed the Dawnshards. esoteric is of note, meaning rare or belonging to few, which doesn't do use much help but I felt it could be relevant. Another thing I noticed is this is reminding me of

Mistborn spoilers

Spoiler

Allomancy is a parallel to Surgebinding, both grant new abilities.

Hemalurgy is a parallel to Voidbinding(in a sense, both magic of the antagonist, twist what already existed)

Feuralchemy would parallel the Dawnshards in some way, perhaps.

Note: this is all speculation, and Almost all my Mistborn knowledge is secondhand so I could be wrong.

 

[Robot]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:48 AM, Booknerd said:

I just found something that could be relevant in the ARS ARCANUM at the end of WoK we find this quote "I'm not certain yet how the ten levels of Voidbinding or it's cousin the Old Magic fit into this paradigm,[chart of essences] if indeed they can. My research suggests that indeed, there should be another series of abilities that is even more esoteric than the Voidbindings." This could be in reference to Surgebinding as that isn't specifically mentioned, but I think that it is indeed the Dawnshards. esoteric is of note, meaning rare or belonging to few, which doesn't do use much help but I felt it could be relevant. Another thing I noticed is this is reminding me of

Mistborn spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Allomancy is a parallel to Surgebinding, both grant new abilities.

Hemalurgy is a parallel to Voidbinding(in a sense, both magic of the antagonist, twist what already existed)

Feuralchemy would parallel the Dawnshards in some way, perhaps.

Note: this is all speculation, and Almost all my Mistborn knowledge is secondhand so I could be wrong.

 

I disagree that voidbinding is a corruption, if Odium was in contact with Ashynians I'd say it predates surgebinding. From my pov I see voidbinding as most likely being one of two things:

 

1) The original powers the human immigrants had, this is what I think most likely. To me it's very important that there were going to be 9 heralds, since it implies a 9 centric culture.

 

2) Something the humans serving Odium/the fused got after the invasion, basically odiums version of the herald powers.

 

I don't know how relevant this is, but here is a segment of the back text from WoK. I think shardwielding could potentially be Dawn shard wielding instead of dead spren wielding.

 

"The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key."

I wanna say something about hemalurgy too, but I don't know how to use spoilers :c

[+Child of Hodor]

3 hours ago, Robot said:

I disagree that voidbinding is a corruption, if Odium was in contact with Ashynians I'd say it predates surgebinding. From my pov I see voidbinding as most likely being one of two things:

1) The original powers the human immigrants had, this is what I think most likely. To me it's very important that there were going to be 9 heralds, since it implies a 9 centric culture.

 

2) Something the humans serving Odium/the fused got after the invasion, basically odiums version of the herald powers.

I think it's 2). Odium's number in the Rosharan system is 9. 9 Unmade, 9 Heralds quit, there are 9 orders of Fused. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/173/#e8598

10 is the magic number in all Roshar planets except Braize, where Odium is stuck. 10 would be the number on Ashyn, although the way people access it is different.  WoB:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/33/#e2745

I really want to know how the Heralds were made and why they added Taln. Did they come to him with 9 and Honor demanded a 10th, so Taln was chosen because he and Shallash were close (plus he's a great fighter?). Did someone get swapped out? Very interesting that the last minute addition was the one that didn't quit. 

Guess I'll find out in 2034 or so. 

[Goatbringer]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:43 PM, earthexile said:

I believe the Dawnshards are epic-scale fabrials, designed for the purpose of terraforming. Roshar is covered with what looks to me like the scars of human experimentation. I think structures like the Windblades and Urithiru were probably Soulcast, or otherwise constructed with gigantic surges. The Purelake is also suspicious to me. And clearly Shinovar itself was Soulcast into being a piece of an entirely different world. Now there's a cache in Aimia of these ultimate devices, and anyone who used one as a weapon would be able to cause absolutely ridiculous levels of destruction.

I like this theory. Terraforming certainly makes sense given that in Oathbringer they pretty much say that Shinovar was given to the humans... why would it have looked like that before the humans arrived in Roshar? There's also the whole question of the Shattered Plains and how they got that way. Terraforming with the Dawnshards sounds like it could be the answer to the whole third magic system (besides Surgebinding/Honor and Voidbinding/Odium) as it has a distinctly Cultivationy bent to it: growth, change, life, etc.