Truthless of Shinovar

The Rise of Skywalker SPOILER EDITION

34 posts in this topic

Meh. It was good, I enjoyed it, coolest part for me was probably Rey hearing the voices of the past Jedi. I loved Kylo's arc and redemption. Some cheesy parts, unneeded characters, plot wasn't Sanderson level or anything, didn't totally fulfill my expectations, but it was still a good movie. 

((Please don't freak out or anything, this isn't IMDb:ph34r:))

Actually, I take it back, one, and I looked for a little bit at all the reviews, one user on IMDb actually put it really good way that doesn't scream "If your a star wars fan you should love/hate [depending on the review] this movie!!"

"No movie can be perfect. Don't expect this one to be. That being said, it's a good end to the series. There's a lot of bias in these reviews. It's a great way to cap off this trilogy. Don't go in with expectations for it to be the best movie of the decade. Go in remembering all the reasons you love Star Wars, and you'll like it."

Edited by Ookla the Imperial
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I rewatched yesterday. I think that one is very average. It's confusing, convoluted, full of dumb plot solutions and with much more fanservice than acceptable. I would say this movie remember me a lot Aquaman, which I find entertaining but without any major cinematic value. Also technically speaking this movie had a dreadful editing, uninspired locations, dead photography, etc. The only thing I can praise in direction was the camera movement in Chewabacca rescue plot, it was nice, vivid and dynamic. I would give this movie a 6 out of 10 if I want to criticize only the movie itself. 

However, I really dislike TROS meaning as a final episode of a trilogy and final episode of Skywalker saga. It was so empty, emotionless and the story is full of coward decisions. I don't understand the point of bringing Palpatine back, Kylo was the enemy that was stabilished for this movie, I didn't buy his redemption arc. Why was so difficult giving him a antagonist ending ? To please Kylo and Rey shippers ?:mellow: 

The movie also fail in dramatic aspect. Did anyone had any time to breath after Chewbacca (fake) death? Or Leia death? Or C3PO sacrifice (though they cancell it moments later lmao). Instead there is too much time spent on cheap action and blaster fights. 

There is also a lesbian kiss, which I find coward, it was a way to say "we are progressives, can you see? Please stop asking for Poe and Finn romance". I mean, the kiss itself is alright, but they could at least make it meaningful with more significant characters. It's fine both Poe and Finn are straight, I just don't understand why is so hard to write about significant LGBT characters. 

Also, about Poe and Finn, I liked their couples, but the storyline didn't give them any time to grown unfortunately. I bet Finn couple was actually Rose, but JJ decided to exclude her because of some Reddit haters who can't stand her, another sad sign of cowardice. 

 

TROS is probably my second least favorite SW movie, behind only TPM. I hope the box office do alright, so maybe the next trilogy will be better planned story-wise and with a more clear direction and most important: DISCONNECTED OF THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY. This point is essential, even if degraded the movies popularity, it will be for the best. Star Wars needs to connect more with younger audiences, specially outside US 

Edited by IcaroRibeiro
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

However, I really dislike TROS meaning as a final episode of a trilogy and final episode of Skywalker saga. It was so empty, emotionless and the story is full of coward decisions. I don't understand the point of bringing Palpatine back, Kylo was the enemy that was stabilished for this movie, I didn't buy his redemption arc.

It actually makes the ending for the OT worse. Luke basically failed in his mission to revive the Jedi Order, with only one last apprentice alive. Leia's life's work with the New Republic is entirely shattered, with no real government noticed at the end. Han died, broken and alone by the hands of his own son. Remember, Hans appearance in this movie is Kylo's memory, not actually Han. 

13 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

Why was so difficult giving him a antagonist ending ?

Because he was never supposed to be an antagonist (unless they wanted to do a reverse OT Vader, where Kylo goes from conflicted to confident in his Dark Side allegiance). Snoke was supposed to be that, and then RJ killed him. It was hard to give an antagonist because neither director had a plan as to who the real antagonist was going to be and what to do. JJ had no plans for Episode VIII when he finished TFA. RJ had no plans for Episode IX when he finished TLJ.

13 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

To please Kylo and Rey shippers ?

I will never NOT say that Reylo feels like an abusive relationship. 

13 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

Also, about Poe and Finn, I liked their couples, but the storyline didn't give them any time to grown unfortunately. I bet Finn couple was actually Rose, but JJ decided to exclude her because of some Reddit haters who can't stand her, another sad sign of cowardice. 

Finn had Rey, but then Reylo got popular. Then there was Rose, but as you said, fan pressure probably made them back off. But Rey can't have both Kylo and Finn, because that'd be too much. So no one really wins. 

 

I'm going to make a bold claim and say that while TROS had a lot of similarities with Endgame* I say it didn't go far enough into those similarities (not that TROS could help it, but now knowing what we know). Turn Pasana into Tattooine, so the girl Rey gets the necklace from she also talks to at the end. Turn Kijimi into Kamino, but now the rain is snow because of the season change. The Resistance - now Rebellion - is hiding on their historic base back on Yavin IV, because why not at this point? Exogul is now Malachor, and it was the Jedi that destroyed the Wayfinders, not that only two exist. But whatever. We can't change the past; we can only move forward and occasionally re-contextualize it. 

 

Lucasfilm under Kennedy has always had a plan of how and when movies should come out. But I'm not sure how much thought they gave to what the movies should be about beforehand. I hope moving forward that if they write a trilogy or a planned series of movies, all of the movies are written before the first one comes out. Changes can be added on as the later movies develop, but having a plan as to where the characters need to go - and not just how they end - will create a far more consistent story. 

 

 

 

*This doesn't make it unique however. Endgame uses a lot of common tropes and tactics. But Endgame uses these tropes well and is the best comparison we can really come up with in our pop culture conscience. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved this movie. I felt it was an excellent capstone to the Star Wars saga, paying homage to every era of the Saga, scored by excellent John Williams music. Whatever anyone else says, I like this movie. Because, gosh dang it, let people enjoy what they enjoy! I know I shall

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A. I didn't mind not having to guess who would live or die, when or why. I'm tired of having to guess that elsewhere. In other words: kind of no point to include a character if they just randomly die as a "surprise" to make the story "edgy" or what. At least, if the story isn't *supposed* to be edge-or-what. And the STAR WARS sagas are more or less the definition of not-necessarily-edgy-or-what, if I'm not mistaken.

B. The villain seems random? Why more planetkillers? But original Palpatine and the second Death Star were already examples of those "problems." The Last Jedi brought in the deeper theme, which DOES resonate with Lucas' vision: the arms dealers, and in turn the military-industrial complex, of a superempire. Especially a superempire that emerges from a democracy (*cough* America, nuclear weapons, and the Trident submarines *cough*).

Also, with Darth Revan from the games being canonized, and the whole Mandalorian-ness of, well, The Mandalorian, I think the appearance of a huge fleet of planetkilling Star Destroyer ships might end up dovetailing with the Starforge concept in the game that Revan comes from. I mean, right now it's like, "And how did they build that???" but the STAR WARS Cinematic Universe is certainly not over with, so...

C. There are a lot of good Nausicaa homages/references. Rey of course already was that. But her talking down the underground worm, healing in general... Then Ren going into the Sith crypt, hella like Nausicaa/the Vai Emperor going into the Crypt of Shuwa (if you've read the graphic novels).

D. Besides, the BOOKS have included (I know, not canon, "until now" mwahaha) a cloned Emperor Palpatine, and a Force dyad (although I don't think that was the term) fighting him in the midst of a super-sized Force storm. Granted, that storyline just had one quasi-planetkiller Star Destroyer (IIRC it was called the Eclipse), and the ship was either 1/3rd or 2/3rd the power of the Death Star (the booklet I read about it said it could break the surface of a planet open but not destroy the whole thing) and the Force dyad was Luke and Leia, but so what?

/endrant, I'm not mad at anyone about it, but I felt like writing in an aggressive tone :P

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

B. The villain seems random? Why more planetkillers? But original Palpatine and the second Death Star were already examples of those "problems." 

Because Star Wars doesn't know how to deal with things other than escalating the conflict. At least they're genre savvy about it. DS2 I can deal with, as the surprise was that it was operational; Starkiller I can somewhat deal with, as it's an homage to the first two Death Stars, took decades to build, and showed us the threat level. The miniature Death Star cannon in TLJ was also cool, because it was a show of how technology has gone forward. But the entire fleet with planet-killers? That was a bit much. 

4 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

The Last Jedi brought in the deeper theme, which DOES resonate with Lucas' vision: the arms dealers, and in turn the military-industrial complex, of a superempire. Especially a superempire that emerges from a democracy (*cough* America, nuclear weapons, and the Trident submarines *cough*).

TROS makes me appreciate TLJ more, even if my major gripes with it still stand. I hope Lucasfilm keeps RJ around (especially after Knives Out) to do his trilogy outside of the Skywalker Saga. It reminds me - I'm listening to the Legendarium Podcast's review of this episode, and I believe one member said that RJ was the right director for the wrong movie. He shouldn't have done Episode VIII, but something else entirely. Either that or JJ and Terrio REALLY messed up with the plot in this one...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

But the entire fleet with planet-killers? That was a bit much. 

Well, the US started out with the weaker Hiroshima bomb, also had the Nagasaki one, kept building those and then outta nowhere almost they forge the Trident fleet, etc.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

Well, the US started out with the weaker Hiroshima bomb, also had the Nagasaki one, kept building those and then outta nowhere almost they forge the Trident fleet, etc.

But other types of warfare technology also developed, and we're not seeing that in Star Wars. America isn't the only superpower with nuclear weapons either. Russia has some, and so do others. Then there's mutually assured destruction. But Star Wars isn't going to show that, is it?

Also, it's not about the real-life implication right here - although that is a fair one. It's about the story implication. Serial escalation is a problem, because the threats just get bigger until it's almost too much to imagine or care about. The Death Star II in ROTJ worked because we had seen the effects of the first Death Star, so we knew the threat level. It wasn't necessarily escalation as it wasn't more powerful than the original at it's time of use (if I'm remembering correctly). Or as a more current example Avengers Endgame Spoilers:

 

Spoiler

Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet. The second Gauntlet isn't more powerful than the first, and Thanos is at a different stage in life with a different set of goals; but the threat level is the same. It's just scarier this time around because we have seen the consequences once before, and we now know what happens if the heroes lose. The threat, while the same as before, is more believable.  

Another example is Naruto. The fights got larger as the series went on, the enemies stronger, and the jutsu larger, until the final battle in the series started out as a giant kaiju/chakra-mech fight. Characters that were supposed to be measures of power were demoted to simply decent (Third Hokage, Third Tsuchikage, and even Kakashi to an extent). The skill, technique, and smarts of previous fights were abandoned for flashy moves. And a good amount of fans would say the Pain arc - the arc in which this started to become a visible problem - was the last good arc in the series. And this carried over to

Spoiler

Boruto. While Boruto has it's own fair share of problems - and many of them at that - one major gripe is that few villains feel threatening. The characters in the previous series - due to serial escalation - are gods among men. Why feel worried about a villain when Naruto can take them out in an instant? Why feel threatened when Sasuke can teleport at least three different ways? 

 

Serial escalation might be true to life in some aspects, but it is usually a sign of bad storytelling.

(A case of both good and bad elements of serial escalation is Avatar: The Legend of Korra. Season 1 has neutral examples, Season 2 has bad examples, Season 3 & 4 have good examples.) 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True, I am just being overly defensive of TROS :P All I can think is the superfleet must've been made using tech mentioned in KOTOR (well more than mentioned) and either the writers assumed the audience would recognize the possibility, forgot that they were referring to KOTOR implicitly, or are trying to help play the long game with the franchise, setting us up for more KOTOR tie-ins (like the Revan reveal).

EDIT: Because man did I do an Extended Universe dive today on SW superweapons, and the new trilogy's got nothing on those haha

Edited by Ripheus23
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

True, I am just being overly defensive of TROS :P

Lol it's all good! You made some great points and it's awesome that you like the movie! :D

13 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

All I can think is the superfleet must've been made using tech mentioned in KOTOR (well more than mentioned) and either the writers assumed the audience would recognize the possibility, forgot that they were referring to KOTOR implicitly, or are trying to help play the long game with the franchise, setting us up for more KOTOR tie-ins (like the Revan reveal).

Ohh! Good point there! 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was actually a star wars movie.  It did not try and pull three hundred got yeah moments like the last one and it actually clearly cared about that fandom.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that it kinda shoved a whole friggin trilogy into one movie, which means that it of course has bad stuff, but I would say mostly good stuff. 

 

I loved the the parallels between Rey and Kylo’s experiences and how they are breaking off from their respective grandfathers destinies. 

Anakin started good, but joined the dark side, then right before he died, he turned.

Kylo started out good, but joined the dark side, and then turned right before he died. 

Palpatine was rotten all the way, while Rey was trying to turn away from her destiny and stay good which she eventually did.

also Vader turned against palpatine at the last moment and in the last Jedi, kylo turned away from Rey.

much like his grandfather, kylo turned into a force ghost. He was also turned to the dark side through a traumatic event, guided by sideus.

rey guided kylo to the light side, the opposite of palpatine.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the movie was awful. Worst Star Wars movie by FAR. By the ending I was joking about "its not the worst, at least it didnt have ewooks", then, there they were. The plot is awful, the puns to Ryan Johnson are childlish and characters dont resonate at all.

Firstmistake? Bring Palpatine back in the intro. No explanation, no surprise, anything. Just Palpatine is back cause I just read it. Then cut to Kylo Ren killing who knows who and who knows where to get an important artifact. Why was it there? Who were those aliens? Who knows and who cares! Surely Abrams didnt care. 

And thats just the beginning. I wont go through the entire movie, cause its too darn long. But I wanna point out a couple of issues: 

The Millenial Falcon opens its door in the middle of space and nothing happens. No special suits, no explanation, nothing. (When they rescue Rey from that First Order ship).

Force healing? That thing that was so rare and hard to do that they trained special Jedi to do so? Lol, losers. Ask Rey, its easy peasy lemon squeezy now. 

Bringing people back from the death? Remember Darth Plagueis the Wise? He trained and trained and trained for years, and studied the Force for even more years. Now we have Kylo Ren who does it, again, easy peasy japaneasy.

That Palpatine is not Palpatine. That Palpatine is your average action movie villain, not the mastermind behind the fall of the Republic and the Jedi. He doesnt feel like him. 

Now whit "The Final Order". I mean. How? "But how what?" HOW?. EVERYTHING. How can Palpatine in 30 years gather more fleet than the whole fricking Republic, the CoIS and the Empire together?! Not only the tech. The crew. The materials. The money. HOW COULD THEY EVEN BRING THOSE TO THAT LOST IN LEGEND SITH PLANET?!. But of course. Hundreds or thousands of hiper-advanced-DeathStars battleships need one tiny comm tower. Like, we have one of those in my neighborhood for wifi lol. 

Leia dies off cam sending an audio to his son. Really. Our Leia. I grew up with her. I defeated the Empire by her side. I even survived the fricking yuuzhan vong, with her. And you kill her like that. Really. 

I kinda liked The Force Awakens. I liked The Last Jedi. I hate The Rise of Skywalker. They didnt even showed the ghosts of our old characters ... Just voice. Really. They can bring back Harrison Ford for 2 minutes of screen, make a fully CGI Leia, but they cant show us the characters we love ... 

 

Awful, awful movie. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Diego98 said:

The Millenial Falcon opens its door in the middle of space and nothing happens. No special suits, no explanation, nothing. (When they rescue Rey from that First Order ship).

High atmosphere, not space. There was still wind before the Falcon comes in, and Finn's wearing a breather because it's high atmosphere. 

 

10 minutes ago, Diego98 said:

Force healing? That thing that was so rare and hard to do that they trained special Jedi to do so? Lol, losers. Ask Rey, its easy peasy lemon squeezy now.

...when in Canon other than two instances is Force Healing even shown? Because the major instance I can think of the character who healed someone else was DEFINITELY not trained...which Rey was. Rey's been training off screen, much like how Luke trained off screen between ESB and ROTJ in order to build a lightsaber, learn how to Force Choke, and overall have a demeanor change. Does Rey do things too easily at times? Absolutely. This wasn't one of them. If you're going to complain about Force Healing, complain about Kylo/Ben using it, not Rey.

12 minutes ago, Diego98 said:

Leia dies off cam sending an audio to his son. Really. Our Leia. I grew up with her. I defeated the Empire by her side. I even survived the fricking yuuzhan vong, with her. And you kill her like that. Really. 

The best of a no-win scenario. Carrie Fisher's death was traumatic for everyone, including this franchise. I didn't really like the Leia scenes either, but I admit Lucasfilm worked with what they had, doing the most honorable thing in their minds. 

13 minutes ago, Diego98 said:

That Palpatine is not Palpatine. That Palpatine is your average action movie villain, not the mastermind behind the fall of the Republic and the Jedi. He doesnt feel like him. 

I mean...he kinda was a pretty generic villain in the OT...it wasn't until the PT that he got fleshed out. As for brining him back, didn't they do that in Legends a couple of times too? I'm not defending it because I too think it was a terrible move, but it's not unique to Disney's Lucasfilm, so we can't say it's an original sin.

15 minutes ago, Diego98 said:

Bringing people back from the death? Remember Darth Plagueis the Wise? He trained and trained and trained for years, and studied the Force for even more years. Now we have Kylo Ren who does it, again, easy peasy japaneasy.

A couple of things here. Firstly, the "japaneasy" thing really ticked me off for some reason. Don't know why. But I don't know you and you don't know me so it's not important here or there.

Secondly, your info about Darth Plagueis is both wrong and non-canon anymore (the only mentions of Plagueis that are canon as far as I know are in Tarkin by James Luceno* and ROTS). He was never able to bring people back from the dead. Palpatine hinted that it was possible and then blatantly said he didn't know it, but Palps and Vader could discover that power together. And while my Legends experience is small compared to yours, the only character I can remember in Legends explicitly brining someone else back from the dead was Cade Skywalker in the Star Wars Legacy comics.

Third, Kylo Ren is ridiculously powerful. Like, more raw power than Anakin powerful (Anakin had the potential and the skill, but not the power due to his own personal conflicts, the corruption/grooming by Palpatine, and the overall declining power of the Jedi). 

Fourth, you're absolutely right, bringing people back from the dead with vaguely explained powers and plot was terrible. It neuters the Chosen One prophecy, seemingly disrespects George's ideas of what Star Wars was as well as what it should be; and goes against some of the set up rules of the universe. That being said, they have had instances of characters coming back from the "dead" in the new comics and shows. ...and had they tied that into the movie, it would have been FAR more forgivable. 

21 minutes ago, Diego98 said:

Now whit "The Final Order". I mean. How? "But how what?" HOW?. EVERYTHING. How can Palpatine in 30 years gather more fleet than the whole fricking Republic, the CoIS and the Empire together?! Not only the tech. The crew. The materials. The money. HOW COULD THEY EVEN BRING THOSE TO THAT LOST IN LEGEND SITH PLANET?!.

I believe it's implied that they built the Sith Empire/Final Order on Exogul. I think the fleet was the largest in the galaxy at that time, not the largest ever. The New Republic was all but destroyed in TFA, and the First Order was pretty weakened after TLJ; so it's not THAT surprising that the Sith Empire/Final Order fleet would be the largest in the galaxy at the time. It's just...not good or fun writing that Palpatine had another, ANOTHER secret army out there waiting. 

 

*And yes, I'm aware Luceno also wrote Plagueis and there are some light connections. Enough to consider it head-canon; but there aren't enough to explicitly call it canon, as you seem to be doing in your post.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/28/2019 at 2:53 PM, Ookla the Prolific said:

It was actually a star wars movie.  It did not try and pull three hundred got yeah moments like the last one and it actually clearly cared about that fandom.

This one felt the least like a Star Wars movie to me. It felt like a JJ Abrams-made sci-fi movie set in the Star Wars world, but not a Star Wars movie. And I say this as a person who adores TFA. TROS had so few Star Wars transitions, none of the new ships that Star Wars is known for, and none of the heart that I associate Star Wars with. Or maybe that's me being jaded. 

TLJ does a LOT wrong, but at least it had the heart of Star Wars to me. 

 

Edit: Also sorry about the double posting. I couldn't figure out how to add quotes to a previous post.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

High atmosphere, not space. There was still wind before the Falcon comes in, and Finn's wearing a breather because it's high atmosphere. .

Its almost the same. You cant breathe at high atmosphere. Not a Jedi, not a Sith. (Plo Koon maybe, and thats because of his race). And you cant ride those sheep-cow things in high atmosphere neither. 

 

12 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

 

...when in Canon other than two instances is Force Healing even shown? Because the major instance I can think of the character who healed someone else was DEFINITELY not trained...which Rey was. Rey's been training off screen, much like how Luke trained off screen between ESB and ROTJ in order to build a lightsaber, learn how to Force Choke, and overall have a demeanor change. Does Rey do things too easily at times? Absolutely. This wasn't one of them. If you're going to complain about Force Healing, complain about Kylo/Ben using it, not Rey.

The problem is that something really unique and powerful gets treated like the most common thing. Force healing, at least in Old Canon, has always been really hard to do. 

 

26 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Secondly, your info about Darth Plagueis is both wrong and non-canon anymore (the only mentions of Plagueis that are canon as far as I know are in Tarkin by James Luceno* and ROTS). He was never able to bring people back from the dead. Palpatine hinted that it was possible and then blatantly said he didn't know it, but Palps and Vader could discover that power together. And while my Legends experience is small compared to yours, the only character I can remember in Legends explicitly brining someone else back from the dead was Cade Skywalker in the Star Wars Legacy comics.

Third, Kylo Ren is ridiculously powerful. Like, more raw power than Anakin powerful (Anakin had the potential and the skill, but not the power due to his own personal conflicts, the corruption/grooming by Palpatine, and the overall declining power of the Jedi). 

Fourth, you're absolutely right, bringing people back from the dead with vaguely explained powers and plot was terrible. It neuters the Chosen One prophecy, seemingly disrespects George's ideas of what Star Wars was as well as what it should be; and goes against some of the set up rules of the universe. That being said, they have had instances of characters coming back from the "dead" in the new comics and shows. ...and had they tied that into the movie, it would have been FAR more forgivable. 

He was only mentioned once in movies (havent read those books, I just read the New Jedi Order saga)

 

Thats it. Darth Plagueis. Not because of raw power. Because of knowing how to use it. Who trained Kylo? Another behind the scenes plot that doesnt get explained and we just gotta believe it? Yes, bringing people back from dead via Force was possible in the old canon. It was very hard to do. Why could Kylo do it? The special bond between him and Rey? What bond? Why is it there? Has it been explained? Luke and Leia were closer by blood and affections, yet they couldnt teleport objects between them. 

28 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

 

I believe it's implied that they built the Sith Empire/Final Order on Exogul. I think the fleet was the largest in the galaxy at that time, not the largest ever. The New Republic was all but destroyed in TFA, and the First Order was pretty weakened after TLJ; so it's not THAT surprising that the Sith Empire/Final Order fleet would be the largest in the galaxy at the time. It's just...not good or fun writing that Palpatine had another, ANOTHER secret army out there waiting. 

 

It is said in the movie that there are a hundred (or thousand, dont remember right) of those ships on Exogul. Fully crewed, functional and improved Death Stars. A hundred. A fricking hundred. Nor the Clone Wars Republic or the Empire at his full potencial had that weaponry. Palpatine was plotting to build the Death Star for decades. Now in 30 years he has at least 100 upgraded versions of that. Yeah, I get it. The tech was already discovered, so now its easier to replicate. But a hundred, by himself. No economic support from the Empire, or the First Order. And without anyone noticing it. And in a planet only a Lord Sith could ever find (or someone with that map thingy, but there are only two because ... Reasons). Can you imagine how many people its necessary to fully crew each of those ships? Not talking about material or resources. Just people. To build it, to crew it, to maintain it. How? How? 

 

The Old Canon had its plot holes and mistakes. Yes, Palpatine was back there too. But via cloning technology, not reviving because ... Who knows? 

 

(Gosh quoting a post in a mobile phone is HARD. Actually harder than force healing nowadays ...)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

none of the new ships that Star Wars is known for

Um.  We saw more star wars ships then in any other movie.

46 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

TROS had so few Star Wars transitions

Why do we want those exactly?

46 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Or maybe that's me being jaded. 

Seems much more likely to me at least. 

46 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

TLJ does a LOT wrong, but at least it had the heart of Star Wars to me. 

I am not saying you are necessarily wrong but I would like you to point out what exactly this "heart" is.  None of the emotional beets from TLJ are things I would associate with Star Wars normally.

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

Palpatine back in the intro. No explanation, no surprise, anything

To be fair this was most likely not JJ's fault he did not have control over the last movie.

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

The Millenial Falcon opens its door in the middle of space and nothing happens. No special suits, no explanation, nothing. (When they rescue Rey from that First Order ship).

They probably have one of those field locks higher up on the door.  Also we saw the same thing in empire on that asteroid.

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

Force healing? That thing that was so rare and hard to do that they trained special Jedi to do so? Lol, losers. Ask Rey, its easy peasy lemon squeezy now. 

It is not new.  Obi-Wan does it in the very first movie to heal Luke's concussion.  Rey is also wicked powerful(she has all the power of two really powerful beings).

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

Bringing people back from the death

Near death.  We don't know if Rey was actually alive.

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

That Palpatine is not Palpatine. That Palpatine is your average action movie villain, not the mastermind behind the fall of the Republic and the Jedi. He doesnt feel like him. 

Palps has always been a bit like that TBH.  Their is a reason why Vader toys sell better.  This story was about Rey not about Palps.

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

Now whit "The Final Order". I mean. How? "But how what?" HOW?. EVERYTHING. How can Palpatine in 30 years gather more fleet than the whole fricking Republic, the CoIS and the Empire together?!

I don't think he did.  His fleet was big but we have seen bigger.  The only fleets that could have opposed it were destroyed in movie one by star killer base.

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

Hundreds or thousands of hiper-advanced-DeathStars battleships need one tiny comm tower. Like, we have one of those in my neighborhood for wifi lol. 

Actually yeah.  Assuming no interference as many people as necessary should be able to listen in on the same radio frequency or did you think when you turned on a radio someone else's cut out? 

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

Leia dies off cam sending an audio to his son. Really. Our Leia. I grew up with her. I defeated the Empire by her side. I even survived the fricking yuuzhan vong, with her. And you kill her like that. Really. 

Considering that they were working with limited materiel as the actress playing Leia was unavailable for the movie (on account of being dead) I think they did a great job.  Also her last act is to redeem someone else and save the galaxy.  That is the princess I remember.

1 hour ago, Diego98 said:

make a fully CGI Leia

She was not CGI she was old materiel put in over current materiel.   Look up the process.  The director wanted to be respectful.

Edited by Ookla the Prolific
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Diego98 said:

You cant breathe at high atmosphere.

Which is why Finn had the breather and why the closed the door as soon as Rey got on the Falcon. As for the battle on Exogul...you're right about that. Huh.

10 hours ago, Diego98 said:

The problem is that something really unique and powerful gets treated like the most common thing. Force healing, at least in Old Canon, has always been really hard to do. 

Again, this is all over Disney and is serial escalation. So it's a symptom of a problem, but not the problem itself. Rey was shown healing things earlier on, and clearly has a knowledge of what healing is and how to do it. What more do you want? The problem shouldn't be her healing things. 

10 hours ago, Diego98 said:

He was only mentioned once in movies (havent read those books, I just read the New Jedi Order saga)

Ah, gotcha!

10 hours ago, Diego98 said:

Thats it. Darth Plagueis. Not because of raw power. Because of knowing how to use it. Who trained Kylo? Another behind the scenes plot that doesnt get explained and we just gotta believe it? Yes, bringing people back from dead via Force was possible in the old canon. It was very hard to do. Why could Kylo do it? The special bond between him and Rey? What bond? Why is it there? Has it been explained? Luke and Leia were closer by blood and affections, yet they couldnt teleport objects between them.

And that clip never said anything about brining back the dead. Palpatine said Plagueis could stop his "loved ones" from dying, but not bring them back. That's a different set of powers. Plagueis couldn't do it. I'm assuming Kylo could only do it because 1) Rey gave some of her life-force to him earlier on to heal and 2) they were connected. As it goes, the special bond was...weirdly explained I completely agree. Snoke bridged their minds in TLJ, creating the bond in the first place, and now it's actually some sort of prophecy? That was pushing it. A lot. 

10 hours ago, Diego98 said:

A hundred. A fricking hundred. Nor the Clone Wars Republic or the Empire at his full potencial had that weaponry. Palpatine was plotting to build the Death Star for decades. Now in 30 years he has at least 100 upgraded versions of that. Yeah, I get it. The tech was already discovered, so now its easier to replicate. But a hundred, by himself. No economic support from the Empire, or the First Order. And without anyone noticing it. And in a planet only a Lord Sith could ever find (or someone with that map thingy, but there are only two because ... Reasons). Can you imagine how many people its necessary to fully crew each of those ships? Not talking about material or resources. Just people. To build it, to crew it, to maintain it. How? How? 

I mean, they were on the edge of Outer Space, and he did have at least one planet of loyal volunteers...Again, it's flimsy and stupid, but not immersion breaking for me.

10 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Um.  We saw more star wars ships then in any other movie.

New ones? Every movie added new ships or SOMETHING to the world. We got carriers and Boba Fett in ESB, Scout Troopers and Walkers in ROTJ, all sorts of new things in TPM, AT-TE's and all of the other Clone War tech in AOTC, some tech that bridged the Clone Wars and the OT in ROTS and Solo, at least Starkiller Base in TFA (and sleeker designs of older ships, but that only works once), "Gorilla" walkers, miniature Death Star tech, and the skimmers on Crait in TLJ. 

To your point, we got the little speeders on Pasana, but that's all that sticks out to me after two viewings...and those don't really excite my inner-child. 

10 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Why do we want those exactly?

Because it's a stylistic transition unique to Star Wars. Like how now after Deadpool we associate the "three point landing" as a "superhero landing," the transitions help us know we're in Star Wars.

10 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Seems much more likely to me at least. 

You're not wrong. A lot of problems I have in the movie aren't always related to the movie itself. But I'm always trying to talk about the ones related to the movie.

10 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

I am not saying you are necessarily wrong but I would like you to point out what exactly this "heart" is.  None of the emotional beets from TLJ are things I would associate with Star Wars normally.

Oh absolutely, most of the emotional beats in TLJ fall completely flat. The only two that worked was everyone on the Falcon in the end (which is totally where they should have ended the movie. Nobody needed Broom Boy), and when Luke walked in at the end.

But Star Wars is about Hope, Community, and Dreams. It's about becoming a better person than you were, and overcoming your past. It's about redemption, and how those who want to be redeemed can find it (which excluded Kylo, as for the past two movies he didn't really want it outside of one moment). And not to mention more than a little politics. TLJ plays and twists these themes in interesting - if not annoying and offensive - ways. And more importantly, it keeps the integrity of Lucas' vision with Star Wars. George wanted to push the boundaries of cinema technology and storytelling with Star Wars - especially the prequels. You see this with some of the weirder ideas he put into The Clone Wars cartoon, specifically the Mortis arc (which many fans adore...I am not one of them). RJ wasn't afraid of going weird either, but the weirdness was always rooted back into something familiar (Rey and Ren's bond echoing how Luke and Leia could sense each other; the trippy cave echoing Luke's own cave adventure on Dagoba).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Palpatine was always supposed to come back.”

I’m pretty sure Kathleen Kennedy said that. Yeah right, Kathy.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

? Every movie added new ships or SOMETHING to the world

We got Ren's new class of TIE and some awesome call outs to older ships but honestly I don't know why you want Disney to work so hard to sell more toys.

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Because it's a stylistic transition unique to Star Wars. Like how now after Deadpool we associate the "three point landing" as a "superhero landing," the transitions help us know we're in Star Wars.

It was unique to George's Star Wars.  After the prequels I well... Anyway as far as it goes from a director's stand point I do not really think they are objectively a good choice stylistically. 

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Oh absolutely, most of the emotional beats in TLJ fall completely flat. The only two that worked was everyone on the Falcon in the end (which is totally where they should have ended the movie. Nobody needed Broom Boy), and when Luke walked in at the end.

This I almost entirely agree with.  Luke walking out and afterward no one dies except Luke.  I think to myself.  Why could we have not gotten THIS Luke a good hour ago.  This guy is Boss!

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

And not to mention more than a little politics

The original series contained no politics.  Most people think this is where Star Wars was at its best.

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

TLJ plays and twists these themes in interesting - if not annoying and offensive - ways

So they get an A for effort?  I agree that what they were trying to do might have been interesting but when it comes to a movie I have payed to watch I have to set a higher bar.  TLJ did not deliver the product I payed for(emotion).  The fact that they tried to do so really does not help much.

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

. And more importantly, it keeps the integrity of Lucas' vision with Star Wars.

I still do not get why Lucas gets to decide what is and is not Star Wars.  Star Wars belongs to the fans not the man who created the first movies and especially not to the man who created the prequels.  His vision does not really matter to me if it is one I do not connect with. 

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

George wanted to push the boundaries of cinema technology and storytelling with Star Wars - especially the prequels. You see this with some of the weirder ideas he put into The Clone Wars cartoon

I do not give him credit for the awesomeness that is Clone Wars Animated Series. 

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

the trippy cave echoing Luke's own cave adventure on Dagoba).

This is an excellent example of something that fell flat.  Luke's cave adventure makes sense.  It can be interpreted and the force trying to tell him about Vader as an indication that he is really fighting himself not an external threat or that his fear and anger are ultimately self defeating.  On the other hand Rey's experiences don't inform the viewer, the plot, or even Rey's own character development.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

It was unique to George's Star Wars.  After the prequels I well... Anyway as far as it goes from a director's stand point I do not really think they are objectively a good choice stylistically.

Maybe they aren't, but they're still in the DNA of Star Wars. Even the Disney Era films have had them, albeit in decreasing amounts. 

 

7 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

This I almost entirely agree with.  Luke walking out and afterward no one dies except Luke.  I think to myself.  Why could we have not gotten THIS Luke a good hour ago.  This guy is Boss!

Ha! Thanks for the chuckle. I needed it. 

7 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

The original series contained no politics.  Most people think this is where Star Wars was at its best.

Except the Ewoks being stand-ins for the Vietcong, or the Emperor being based off of Nixon. 

7 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

So they get an A for effort?  I agree that what they were trying to do might have been interesting but when it comes to a movie I have payed to watch I have to set a higher bar.

They get an B for trying and not pulling back any punches. 

7 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

TLJ did not deliver the product I payed for(emotion).  The fact that they tried to do so really does not help much.

That's how TROS feels to me. Any shock or emotion they tried to give, they immediately backed out on. Chewie's dead? NOPE, he's alive two scenes later. Kijimi's blown up, along with these two characters we just got to know? NOPE, they're alive and well! Poe's given up because no one answered the call? NOPE, everyone's here to save the day. Rey's tempted to join the Dark Side? NOPE, not even once. Finn and Poe are about to die? NOPE, because their banter gives it away, and Hux HAS to be the traitor.*

Nothing stays after the movie is gone. The status quo is back to normal - or worse, probably -  and I HATE that. 

7 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

I still do not get why Lucas gets to decide what is and is not Star Wars.  Star Wars belongs to the fans not the man who created the first movies and especially not to the man who created the prequels.  His vision does not really matter to me if it is one I do not connect with. 

Again, how I feel about TROS. One of the on-going jokes is that TROS was written by Reddit, and it's not hard to see why. All of the major complaints from TLJ and the ST as a whole were addressed in pretty cheesy ways to seemingly satiate fans. Holdo Maneuver mentioned outright by storming name; Rey Nobody retconned to being both a Palpatine and a Skywalker by the end of the movie; Reylo in general; Rose's reduced screentime; Palpatine back because Snoke failed; a reason as to why Snoke failed...belonging to the fans is a legitimate thing, but "written by fans," or at least giving the appearance of that isn't good. 

7 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

This is an excellent example of something that fell flat.  Luke's cave adventure makes sense.  It can be interpreted and the force trying to tell him about Vader as an indication that he is really fighting himself not an external threat or that his fear and anger are ultimately self defeating.  On the other hand Rey's experiences don't inform the viewer, the plot, or even Rey's own character development.

I mean, it's supposed to say that Rey's parents don't really influence who she can become. Her story is her own. This is backed by the reveal that she's supposedly a nobody. Rey is Rey, not a legacy character. But this was retconned.

7 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

I do not give him credit for the awesomeness that is Clone Wars Animated Series.

It was his idea, and he pushed it forward, personally worked on it, and personally funded it. He deserves that credit. Filoni also deserves that credit, but there's more than enough credit to go around. What George - and his apprentice Filoni - needed was a counterbalance. In the OT it was Kasdan who provided that counterbalance. In TCW it was Filoni. In the PT he had none, and that's why things went off. 

*Hux being a traitor has been a rumor since pre-TFA days, so take from that what you will. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Maybe they aren't, but they're still in the DNA of Star Wars. Even the Disney Era films have had them, albeit in decreasing amounts. 

You must be one of the only fans asking for my advertising in your movies.  As to the DNA of star wars.  A farm boy working hard to do the right thing is the DNA of star wars.  Having new ships is not.

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Except the Ewoks being stand-ins for the Vietcong, or the Emperor being based off of Nixon. 

That is you reading things in.  A causal view could still say no politics and be correct.

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Again, how I feel about TROS. One of the on-going jokes is that TROS was written by Reddit, and it's not hard to see why. All of the major complaints from TLJ and the ST as a whole were addressed in pretty cheesy ways to seemingly satiate fans. Holdo Maneuver mentioned outright by storming name; Rey Nobody retconned to being both a Palpatine and a Skywalker by the end of the movie; Reylo in general; Rose's reduced screentime; Palpatine back because Snoke failed; a reason as to why Snoke failed...belonging to the fans is a legitimate thing, but "written by fans," or at least giving the appearance of that isn't good. 

This I somewhat agree with but TLJ was so bad I kind of am glad they decided to get rid of it.  I would have preferred a total remake of both movies but if that has to wait so be it.

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Nothing stays after the movie is gone. The status quo is back to normal - or worse, probably -  and I HATE that. 

I like that.  I want star wars to be star wars.

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Filoni

Has worked hard on Mandolorian.  By rating the best TV show ever in star wars.  George produced the prequels. 

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

*Hux being a traitor has been a rumor since pre-TFA days, so take from that what you will. 

Why does this matter?

Edited by Ookla the Prolific
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

That is you reading things in.  A causal view could still say no politics and be correct.

The Vietnam War was inspiration for George when he created the original trilogy. It’s not just reading things in.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Jaywalk said:

The Vietnam War was inspiration for George when he created the original trilogy. It’s not just reading things in.

OK sure it served as inspiration.  I don't know what JJ looked to but from what I can tell it reminds me of the popular uprisings of eastern Europe during the end of the cold war.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so here is my problem with the movie. A problem I know a lot of people may not have but I do. I have only watched the movies. I have not watched any of the animated series. I have read like one SW book. So I am pretty ignorant of the expanded universe beyond the movies. My issue is from what I understand some is canon and some is not and I am not really sure how it is decided what becomes canon other than what Disney decides to be important to the future stories. That being said coming from my perspective a lot of the movie comes across as confusing. I had to start scouring the internet after the movie to understand half of what happened. Especially since things like bringing people back from the dead were introduced as a power of the dark side in the movies. If coming from the perspective of just watching the movies most of the "reveals" just do not make much sense or hit home until I read on the internet why they were significant or even possible in some cases. 

 

That being said it was not completely bad and I was entertained by a lot of the movie. Taken in the context of this last trilogy alone I really liked Rey and Kylo as characters and their arcs even if I am still a little confused on why they both did not vanish after dying.. 

 

Edited by StormingTexan
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.