Cognitive Realm Mass Transit

[Bigmikey357]

It's a definite possibility.  After all, one has to transverse between planets to worldhop, they must be walking on something right?

As far as CR landscapes,  I believe the bead ocean and the glass waterways is local to Roshar.  Kelsier saw nothing of the sort when he was traipsing through Scadrial's CR, just a world of see through mist and faded reflections of the PR. And with the Dor running loose in Sel's CR I imagine that it looks more like some kind of sparkling hell. Point is, although I might not like it it's probably more feasible to build the system independently,  each local entity taking advantage of the unique qualities of their own CR's, and then connecting the lines later. My issue with that is that it lacks uniformity and so quality control will suffer. 

[+Oltux72]

15 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

I think planes are almost certainly your best option.  Too much of the CR is ocean for trains or cars.

A majority of the area of a terrestial planet is water. Hence most of the CR is land. The amount of freight an aircraft at that level of technology will carry is minimal. Unless you want to import airships, you will most likely lose money. Add to that the issue of reliability. Early aircraft weren't all that reliable. And if you go down in the CR you will almost certainly perish, unless you are found very soon. There is no water and they have no radios, which may or may not work in the CR anyway. Finally, how do you navigate? There are no stars and the sun is always at the same place in the sky.

[Karger]

15 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

A majority of the area of a terrestial planet is water

Yes but all of the particularities we have seen start in the middle of a CR ocean.  As to navigation once they have airplanes they will have radios(we have seen that the southern scadrains have both)

Edited December 25, 2019 by Ookla the Prolific

[Gilphon]

The CR doesn't do the water-land inversion thing everywhere. That's a Roshar thing. Like Scadrial's CR still has land where there's supposed to be land. And we haven't directly seen what it's like anywhere else.

[Steel Inquisitive]

23 hours ago, Gilphon said:

The CR doesn't do the water-land inversion thing everywhere. That's a Roshar thing. Like Scadrial's CR still has land where there's supposed to be land. And we haven't directly seen what it's like anywhere else.

Scadrial's CR is still inverted. The ground was made of mist. Our PoV character in the story could walk on it because they were dead. (Can't remember which forum I'm on lol) If you recall Hoid had to use a "boat".

Edited December 26, 2019 by Steel Inquisitive

[+Oltux72]

22 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Yes but all of the particularities we have seen start in the middle of a CR ocean.  As to navigation once they have airplanes they will have radios(we have seen that the southern scadrains have both)

Right, but this cuts both ways. You do not want to shove a whole aircraft through a perpendicularity, do you? So dou want to build a floating airport? The CR has no wind, so you could build a structure that would not withstand a storm. Yet by thatargumenyt you can also build a pontoon bridge.

Yes, they will have radios. But that does not tell us whether radios work in the CR.

[Karger]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You do not want to shove a whole aircraft through a perpendicularity, do you?

Assemble it via parts.  This is what we do in remote locations on earth.

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The CR has no wind, so you could build a structure that would not withstand a storm

But things do not manifest forever on the CR side.  Also you would need an enormous structure.

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes, they will have radios. But that does not tell us whether radios work in the CR.

Why would they not?  You can eat their they have gravity.  Physical law does not seem muted via the CR.

[+Oltux72]

On 26/12/2019 at 4:05 AM, Ookla the Prolific said:

Assemble it via parts.  This is what we do in remote locations on earth.

On dry land.

On 26/12/2019 at 4:05 AM, Ookla the Prolific said:

But things do not manifest forever on the CR side.  Also you would need an enormous structure.

That is more or less unavoidable. Airports that are supposed to be economical need to have a certain size. What you could do is materialize a temporary working platform, on which you can assemble the final structure made from components shipped from the PR..

On 26/12/2019 at 4:05 AM, Ookla the Prolific said:

Why would they not?  You can eat their they have gravity.  Physical law does not seem muted via the CR.

There are marked differences.

1. Where is the wind? You have dark land areas next to reflective oceans of beads. The land areas heat up faster if there is light. There ought to be wind.
2. What causes heat differences? The pseudosun certainly not.
3. Geometry of space must be off. Suppose you build a long tunnel. If the surface is truly flat, the tunnel is now too short.

[Karger]

14 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Where is the wind? You have dark land areas next to reflective oceans of beads. The land areas heat up faster if there is light. There ought to be wind.

The CR does not move nor does it have sunlight in the traditional sense.

14 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

What causes heat differences? The pseudosun certainly not.

Do we know of any heat differences?  Also these may be the expression of what is essentially feelings.

14 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Geometry of space must be off. Suppose you build a long tunnel. If the surface is truly flat, the tunnel is now too short.

No it just does not correspond perfectly to real space.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Ookla the Prolific

[erude1]

Another thing to consider here, and I might be off mark, but- does the CR have air like the PR does? If not, you're going to have trouble getting any regular airplane off the ground... gotta generate that lift somehow. Maybe through Investiture means? I doubt at that point it would look like any plane we've seen before. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by erude1
Typo

[Honorless]

36 minutes ago, erude1 said:

Another thing to consider here, and I might be off mark, but- does the CR have air like the PR does? If not, you're going to have trouble getting any regular airplane off the ground... gotta generate that lift somehow. Maybe through Investiture means? I doubt at that point it would look like any plane we've seen before. 

Strangely enough (in retrospect), it does. Here's a WoB on the phenomenon:

Quote

Pagerunner

If you need to bring food into Shadesmar, why don't you need to bring air?

Brandon Sanderson

Y'know, we actually talked and thought about this. There are certain things I just decided for narrative reasons... I wanted Shadesmar to be travelable and I wanted it to be a real place, and so I just made air, I came up with kind of my own hacks. There are times I do this for narrative reasons. 

Let me give you an easier example. In the Mistborn books, and I've told people this before, I was working on speed bubbles. Slowing down time, speeding up time in a small little bubble around you, right? I went to Peter and I'm like, "This is what I'm going to do, what are the problems with this?" And he's like, "Well, redshift." Which means that basically you would be irradiating everyone with the light coming from inside the speed bubble. I'm like, "alright, we're just going to say that doesn't happen." This is where the line between for me science fiction and fantasy exists. When I'm building my story, I do try to have one foot in science with things like this. But I tend to work backward... A lot of science fiction starts with what we have now and extrapolates forward to [an] interesting, plausible premise. For my fantasy works, I start with some cool idea. And then I work backward in plausibility, trying to justify it. And we kind of meet in the center, but at the end of the day I am breaking the laws of thermodynamics, right? Just straight-up breaking laws-- I mean, we have our whole Realmatic Theory and stuff like that, but at the end of the day, I am trying to tell stories where certain extreme situations exist. Like, I bent over backwards to make the science of Roshar work with the greatshells, but at the end of the day, we still have to have a magical solution, right. To get beasties as big as we want to do, it doesn't matter how high your oxygen content is, if you've got .7 gravity or not, all these concessions we've made: the square-cube law says those things crush themselves. You just can't have things this big. And so we built in a magical solution. The spren creating this symbiotic bond is making it so these things don't crush themselves. 

And when I was looking at Shadesmar, there are a couple things-- what I want for the narrative is this place. I am going to work backward and try to make as many concessions and nods toward science as I can. But the air one, I just said "You know what? There's just gonna be air in Shadesmar. I am just gonna make it so that you can." I want you to be able to walk between the planets on Shadesmar, I don't want people to have to worry about bringing a Windrunner with them and plants or whatever to get oxygen. I'm just gonna make that the case. Your in-world answers, I'm like "Well, air kind of permeates and has escaped through and things," but really do we have an oxygen cycle there? We've got plants, but are they really--

The answer is, there is air in Shadesmar because I want there to be air in Shadesmar. 

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

 

[erude1]

18 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Strangely enough (in retrospect), it does. Here's a WoB on the phenomenon:

 

Full speed ahead then

[+Oltux72]

7 hours ago, erude1 said:

Another thing to consider here, and I might be off mark, but- does the CR have air like the PR does? If not, you're going to have trouble getting any regular airplane off the ground... gotta generate that lift somehow. Maybe through Investiture means? I doubt at that point it would look like any plane we've seen before. 

As Kaladin did not keep accelerating but reached a final speed, air still causes friction.

On 28/12/2019 at 11:26 PM, Ookla the Prolific said:

The CR does not move nor does it have sunlight in the traditional sense.

Well, if visible light does not behave like in the PR, why would radio waves?

 

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, if visible light does not behave like in the PR, why would radio waves?

The CR does not have a sun to produce light. 

[Honorless]

12 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

The CR does not have a sun to produce light. 

Or rather we do not know the properties of its strange small sun

[Karger]

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

Or rather we do not know the properties of its strange small sun

OK.  The strange "sun" of shadesmar does not produce anything with the same properties as light.

[+Oltux72]

Just now, Ookla the Prolific said:

OK.  The strange "sun" of shadesmar does not produce anything with the same properties as light.

Yet people can see something in the CR. There is light or something acting like light. And we have Kaladin observing a lack of radiated heat from the fire at the light house.
So, is this because the objects emitting the light are not "real" or is this physics of the CR?

[Karger]

12 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

So, is this because the objects emitting the light are not "real" or is this physics of the CR?

The fire is also not fire.  It does not consume fuel and it can be moved as we see in Mistborn Secret History.  We still have no indication of different physics.