THEpriceOFsoap

Do you think it's possible for Adolin to bring Mayalaran back from the dead?

94 posts in this topic

57 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

He said very clearly in the book why he does not want to become king. He feels they would not listen to him and he would be ineffective. They then picked Jasnah because she would be a better Queen. Highprince he was willing to do because he felt he would be effective at it. Again I feel you are painting this level of single mindedness that is discounting so many other aspects and levels of Adolin. 

Which is a cop out. It's literally the same job. How many times have we been told that each Highprince is essentially a king in their own right? If he can effectively be one, he can effectively be the other. 

57 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

And you are assuming he will be wrong about the extent of his abilities enough to get himself killed? To the extent that it is an assurety? That either he gets powers, or he will get himself killed. So I guess then he is a horrible soldier, and a short sighted commander that will get not only himself but his men killed because he will always go beyond what he is capable of. 

Personally I think Adolin is smart enough to realize when there is a task he is not suited for, and delegate it to someone who is. Personally I do not think Adolin is the type to suicidally compromise the success of a mission, because he has to be the one to do it. He learned his lesson from the shattered plains when Dalinar got surrounded. Kaladin told him to save the men, and Kaladin would handle getting Dalinar. Adolin didn't like it at the time, but he still did it because it was the right thing to do. Adolin with the thunderclast in thaylenah shows that growth. He didn't need anyone to force him. He realized for himself, and chose to do so. 

And I think you're missing my point completely. Without powers, he will be a liability in combat with the other radiants. He will either continue anyway, and eventually die in the process... Or he'll step back from combat in which case he will be effectively sidelined from his current story role. 

Adolin is able to stand with the other characters, even in the face of horrible odds. The entire reason people like him as the "normal" perspective is because we see the action from the perspective of people without powers... Which is a role that's going to be less and less viable. 

If he becomes like other characters you mentioned, Gawx, or Fen, or Sebarial, or any of the many generals, or Highprinces, or nobles or random other characters... He becomes a minor character who has multiple other people at the same level, in the same role, that are all doing the exact same things he is, and his story role essentially becomes "Shallan's husband, Dalinar's son, and Renarin's brother."

That's being sidelined. There would be absolutely nothing he is doing outside of his relationships to the other characters that isn't being fulfilled by a multitude of similarly minor characters.

57 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

why this is coming up in our current discussion?

Because it was a general statement and not directed at you. 

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6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Which is a cop out. It's literally the same job. How many times have we been told that each Highprince is essentially a king in their own right? If he can effectively be one, he can effectively be the other. 

I disagree. And I think the fact that Adolin sees a difference is what is important. He chooses one over the other. 

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

And I think you're missing my point completely. Without powers, he will be a liability in combat with the other radiants. He will either continue anyway, and eventually die in the process... Or he'll step back from combat in which case he will be effectively sidelined from his current story role. 

I am not missing your point, I just fundamentally disagree with it. It is presenting an absolute when there isn't one. You do not know that. You are not the writer. You are not deciding what happens with Adolin's story. Could that happen? Sure. So could any number of other possibilities. You can believe you will enjoy a certain story for Adolin more than another. But to state another theory would not happen because in your mind you will not like how you think it will play out and that is the only way it could play out? That I whole heartily disagree with. 

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Adolin is able to stand with the other characters, even in the face of horrible odds. The entire reason people like him as the "normal" perspective is because we see the action from the perspective of people without powers... Which is a role that's going to be less and less viable. 

And I disagree. Otherwise why is there visions Dalinar has with "normy" soldiers fighting? You are saying they aren't viable, so why are they there at all? Why have officers, and generals without powers? They are pointless right? Most of Dalinar's arc in Oathbringer involved him in a room, meeting with other leaders, discussing policy and ruling. How much of his present day narrative included him taking a sword and killing someone with his powers? None whatsoever. The closest is letting Fen's son run him through. Something tells me Adolin could have accomplished that without getting a sword through the chest and needing stormlight healing. 

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

If he becomes like other characters you mentioned, Gawx, or Fen, or Sebarial, or any of the many generals, or Highprinces, or nobles or random other characters... He becomes a minor character who has multiple other people at the same level, in the same role, that are all doing the exact same things he is, and his story role essentially becomes "Shallan's husband, Dalinar's son, and Renarin's brother."

And I disagree. Dalinar had that narrative and he is a main character. I see no reason why Adolin cannot continue without powers, or have a unique bond that does not give him full surges, and still have a narrative people can enjoy. I really dislike the false dichotomy that either Adolin goes the way you want him to, or he is irrelevant/will die. 

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

That's being sidelined. There would be absolutely nothing he is doing outside of his relationships to the other characters that isn't being fulfilled by a multitude of similarly minor characters.

I disagree. I have showed numerous examples of other characters that are just as successful in all the situations you are convinced with end in suicide for Adolin. You believe Adolin will develop powers and enjoy such a narrative? Great for you! Just like those who think he will not will enjoy that narrative, without it automatically meaning Adolin is irrelevant or die. Disregarding other theories in such absolutes helps no one, and only shuts off people from sharing their thoughts, and growing enjoyment of the series

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Because it was a general statement and not directed at you. 

Sorry but given your post started by addressing me, I assumed the entire post was directed at me

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31 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Most of Dalinar's arc in Oathbringer involved him in a room, meeting with other leaders, discussing policy and ruling.

And other than Dalinar, how many of those characters names do people remember? 

32 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

How much of his present day narrative included him taking a sword and killing someone with his powers? None whatsoever.

And how many characters are we going to have play the negotiator/peace broker? 

33 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I have showed numerous examples of other characters that are just as successful in all the situations you are convinced with end in suicide for Adolin.

I didn't say suicide. I said sidelined. And being that every one of those characters save Dalinar is a minor character, I think you're making my point for me. 

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9 hours ago, Calderis said:

Which is a cop out. It's literally the same job. How many times have we been told that each Highprince is essentially a king in their own right? If he can effectively be one, he can effectively be the other. 

Kohlin's are the exception as they actually act like highprinces to the king.  After and during a desolation and with Jasnah in charge I think that the highprinces in general will be getting back to their legally defined roles as stated by the sunmaker.

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

Without powers, he will be a liability in combat with the other radiants. He will either continue anyway, and eventually die in the process... Or he'll step back from combat in which case he will be effectively sidelined from his current story role. 

Or he will stay in combat providing a view of what the battle is like for the ordinary soldier as all these people with powers destroy large chucks of the field.

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

... Which is a role that's going to be less and less viable. 

Why?  As more and more of the cast gets more and more powerful I think it would become not just viable but necessary to have someone like Adolin around.

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

If he becomes like other characters you mentioned, Gawx, or Fen, or Sebarial, or any of the many generals, or Highprinces, or nobles or random other characters... He becomes a minor character who has multiple other people at the same level, in the same role, that are all doing the exact same things he is, and his story role essentially becomes "Shallan's husband, Dalinar's son, and Renarin's brother."

Adolin could still do a lot.  If he revives his blade and it confers any advantage(not just powers) he could found an institution to teach other to do the same.  This could be valuable, important, and interesting but not involve giving him any surges is all.

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

And other than Dalinar, how many of those characters names do people remember? 

All of them.  Like many sharders I am on my 15th reread.:D

 

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48 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Or he will stay in combat providing a view of what the battle is like for the ordinary soldier as all these people with powers destroy large chucks of the field.

 

53 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Why?  As more and more of the cast gets more and more powerful I think it would become not just viable but necessary to have someone like Adolin around.

Yeah... That seems like a one off scene that's depressing as hell. Canon fodder and survival at the whims of chance. We already got to see that in the vision where Dalinar lost an arm and had to be rescued by a stoneward. Fun times. 

54 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Adolin could still do a lot.  If he revives his blade and it confers any advantage(not just powers) he could found an institution to teach other to do the same.  This could be valuable, important, and interesting but not involve giving him any surges is all.

In order to teach others how to do what he did, he'd have to understand what he's doing. I don't think it will ever be common or easy.

And I've yet to see a compelling realmatic argument in how a spren could be healed without restoring what they lost.

56 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

All of them.  Like many sharders I am on my 15th reread.:D

You know I'm not talking about us here. :P

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I agree with both of you @Pathfinder and @Calderis.

I agree with @Pathfinder in that you don't need to be a radiant to be important, I believe Adolin, in his role as Highprince, can be of the same or more importance than any radiant.

I agree with @Calderis in that Adolin was teached to lead from the front so he will be in a position of danger, when fighting in the shattered plains he was mostly targeted by parshendi, in which he hold the advantage because he was a shardbearer, now he will be targeted by fused and thundercasts losing that advantage.

If he is to fight in the front and survive without powers, he needs, at least, a very good bodyguard. Because when fighting against a fused in OB and Szeth in WoR he lost both and being the leader of the army makes you a target.

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11 hours ago, Calderis said:

And other than Dalinar, how many of those characters names do people remember? 

So people don't remember Jasnah? Renarin? Rysn? Rock? We only see Jasnah in combat once through out the entire novel. We see Renarin in combat once throughout the entire novel. We see Rysn in combat once throughout the entire novel. We see Rock in combat once throughout the entire novel. It is a straw man argument. Adolin should get powers. If you think he should not get powers, then you think he should be irrelevant or die. They are not mutually exclusive. 

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And how many characters are we going to have play the negotiator/peace broker? 

Why is it you act like the only roles in existence are either fighting in the front, or being wallpaper? Dalinar was not only a negotiator/peace broker. He was a general and a leader. He is the one that figured out Thaylenah would be attacked instead of Jah Keved. Oathbringer the novel is the best argument that we have that shows a book does not have to only be about using powers to fight. 

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I didn't say suicide. I said sidelined. And being that every one of those characters save Dalinar is a minor character, I think you're making my point for me. 

You said if Adolin did not get powers he would either not be around during the action and thereby be sidelined, or get into a situation that is beyond him and result in him dying. The only way Adolin would get him into a situation where he would die from overwhelming powers is if he was suicidal. That is disregarding his tactical intelligence, and experience in favor of "I have to be the one to do this!" .There is literally a rant from Adolin in the novels about the responsibility of leaders to let those better suited to do their jobs. I mean at this point I am just saying it till I am blue in the face. No powers does not automatically mean irrelevance and death. There are plenty of relevant characters with no powers, and there are plenty of relevant characters not in combat. It is a straw man argument. No powers and irrelevance/death are not mutually exclusive and it is disingenuous to say otherwise. 

9 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Or he will stay in combat providing a view of what the battle is like for the ordinary soldier as all these people with powers destroy large chucks of the field.

Why?  As more and more of the cast gets more and more powerful I think it would become not just viable but necessary to have someone like Adolin around.

Adolin could still do a lot.  If he revives his blade and it confers any advantage(not just powers) he could found an institution to teach other to do the same.  This could be valuable, important, and interesting but not involve giving him any surges is all.

And that is my point. Your theory is perfectly valid. There are plenty of great plot points there and I wish you luck with it!

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

Yeah... That seems like a one off scene that's depressing as hell. Canon fodder and survival at the whims of chance. We already got to see that in the vision where Dalinar lost an arm and had to be rescued by a stoneward. Fun times. 

Oh my god. Seriously? How about leading normal troops in a decisive route like Adolin did by digging into the buildings of Narak? How about using conventional warfare to combat the fused? Adolin leading a bastion of normal humans defending a city. Fused swoop in expecting token resistance, when Adolin suddenly calls the command, and ballista fitted with oil cans and flaming bolts are revealed and fired. One fires the oil can into the air, the other hits the oilcan, splattering the oil in the air setting it ablaze catching the fused in AOEs. Brandon has drawn on generals of the past. That was a real tactic during real battles. But yeah, total uselessness right? Total irrelevance. 

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In order to teach others how to do what he did, he'd have to understand what he's doing. I don't think it will ever be common or easy.

Based on your theory sure. Based on my theory I disagree. 

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And I've yet to see a compelling realmatic argument in how a spren could be healed without restoring what they lost.

Which is why my theory has a bondsmith doing it.

 

On Page 591 of Words of Radiance, Adolin lectures Dalinar on the importance of delegation and letting those more capable, or less valuable do their jobs. In this circumstance Dalinar was the highprince keeping his people together. Now Adolin is. 

"To get there, we're going to need you. An that means you need to let us watch out for you. I'm sorry, Father, but once in awhile you just have to let someone else do their job. You can't fix every problem with your own hands."

 

So I have shown Adolin's own words about the importance of delegation. I have shown in book examples of when Adolin is out of his depth, he defers to those better suited in that circumstance, and then finding another way to help. I have shown numerous characters that are beloved regardless of page length and PoVs. I have shown characters disliked regardless of page length and PoVs. I have shown narratives with tons of pages that some people disliked. I have shown narratives with barely any pages that people have adored. I have shown ways that Adolin without powers can still be effective and still be important. 

So in summation:

1. Adolin without powers does not mean he will end up irrelevant or dead

2. If you believe Adolin will develop powers, I wish you luck with your theory!

3. Page count, PoV number, and "relevance" should not be a metric in which to judge a theory. They are arbitrary numeric values with no factual backing that adds nothing to discussion. 

5 hours ago, lccaseiro58 said:

I agree with both of you @Pathfinder and @Calderis.

I agree with @Pathfinder in that you don't need to be a radiant to be important, I believe Adolin, in his role as Highprince, can be of the same or more importance than any radiant.

Thank you!

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I agree with @Calderis in that Adolin was teached to lead from the front so he will be in a position of danger, when fighting in the shattered plains he was mostly targeted by parshendi, in which he hold the advantage because he was a shardbearer, now he will be targeted by fused and thundercasts losing that advantage.

Personally I think if that is the case, Adolin and Co would take advantage of that. Knowing the fused would target him, they would set up scenarios where they could ambush or crush the fused that foolishly thought to go after a "vulnerable" Adolin. 

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If he is to fight in the front and survive without powers, he needs, at least, a very good bodyguard. Because when fighting against a fused in OB and Szeth in WoR he lost both and being the leader of the army makes you a target.

And from Adolin's own words, that means letting the people who are capable, do their jobs. Dalinar even had powers, but he still let Kaladin do his job of guarding him. Adolin even lectures Shallan about her guards. 

Thank you @iccaseiro58 (won't let me tag you for some reason), for taking the time to read, listen, and truly considering what is being said. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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People are allowed to disagree with each other sure. Giving all opinions equal weight is never going to happen beyond empty words. Insisting that me stating my opinion and reasoning is somehow shutting down discussion is not something I agree with, and not going to change my arguments. 

If this discussion has resulted in anything, it at least had a lurker send me this extremely relevant WoB to Adolin's personality that I'm going to go and enter into Arcanum. 

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Question:

In a recent WoB, you have stated you considered Adolin to be young, hotheaded, and impulsive. However, the narrative of Oathbringer seems to draw a very different portrayal of Adolin: he comes across as very level-headed. Hence, has Adolin's character changed since the early books? Should readers interpret Adolin as level-headed or impulsive?

Answer:

It's not really my place to argue questions like this--I need to write the text, and leave it for readers to interpret. However, I see Adolin (though growing and changing) still as being hotheaded. He refuses the throne, he repeatedly takes on foes much bigger and more dangerous than himself, he leads the charge in the assault on the palace, he decides to bring everyone to his tailor without consulting them on the idea.

Adolin is a guy who follows his gut. At the same time, he's a trained duelist--and has been prepared for battlefield command since his childhood. When you're in the middle of a war (or an event like the collapse of Kholinar) you need to be able to take command and make decisions. He'd be a terrible soldier and commander if he couldn't do this.

The fact that, despite his training, he does things like attack Sadeas and try to take on a Thunderclast by himself is the proof of his character.

If she agrees, I'll add in the questioners name for proper attribution, but for the time being, seeing as she didn't want to post it herself, I'll leave her anonymous. 

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On 12/23/2019 at 10:24 AM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

No but I can see him skating around gracefully like a Hocky player with an enormous Shardblade . In Edgedancer Nale described the edgedancer as dominating a battlefield like ribbons cutting thru the army ! Now tell me can’t picture that!

 

In your example war machine has the same physical abilities as iron man . In fact war machine has offensive weapons while iron man original concept was he was only supposed to have defensive weapons.  Iron man Powers was primarily his ingenuity . Iron man 3 and Endgane really touched on this 

I really like your reason though to be honest . I had no idea that support characters roles in a story were so limited. It makes sense . However I think Brandon is breaking that troupe. Look at bridge 4 . Teft and Lopen are Radiants now and have power . They function off screen , at least they have limited POV like in interludes . Squires can fly and lash and heal . Adolin will need those things or he will be a crutch throughout the story .

Yeah, that is a good point.  And to be fair, I'm not saying that support characters "must" have limited roles.  It's just that in a lot of cases if everyone in the story including the secondary and tertiary characters have the same powers as the main characters it reduces the feeling of the main characters being special.  It makes the radiants feel that much more powerful if you have a guy like Adolin who on Page 1 of tWoK was one of the most powerful people on Roshar gradually become relatively less and less powerful.  It's a good measuring stick for our main characters' progress.

I'm a little torn on the whole "secondary characters becoming radiants" issue though.  On the one hand, as I mentioned above, having too many people become too powerful takes away our point of reference for how powerful they are.  On the other, realistically we need a lot of radiants.  The impression we get (this may ultimately prove to be wrong) is that a force of hundreds of radiants is necessary to fight Odium and that the spren themselves recognize this and try to form bonds in times of need to create more radiants.  So, we're probably going to have a lot of radiants by the end of SA5.  With that in mind, it does make sense for at least some of those new radiants to come from the ranks of our secondary characters.

From my perspective though, I think Adolin is more interesting if he's not a radiant.  If he basically gets the best "dead" shardblade ever, that makes him unique and unlike the main characters who are all Radiants.  It gives him his own space to be good without having to directly compete for greatness with our main heroes.

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On 12/25/2019 at 11:57 AM, Calderis said:

People are allowed to disagree with each other sure. Giving all opinions equal weight is never going to happen beyond empty words. Insisting that me stating my opinion and reasoning is somehow shutting down discussion is not something I agree with, and not going to change my arguments. 

There is (to me) a difference between saying:

1. I believe Adolin will gain powers, and I will enjoy that narrative more than a narrative where Adolin does not have powers

versus

2. Adolin will gain powers. If he does not, he will be irrelevant, and or die. 

 

It is a strawman argument because it reduces the discussion. It is the equivalency of using the rationale during the red scare. You argument is that Adolin will gain powers. Your icon is red. You are a communist. You want everyone to have powers. You want Adolin to be a communist. How do you discuss that? How can someone express the opposing side?

Your argument is that Adolin will gain powers. If Adolin does not gain powers, he will become irrelevant or die. Thereby anyone that has a theory associated with Adolin not having powers must want him to become irrelevant, or die. How do you discuss that? How can someone express the opposing side in view of that?

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If this discussion has resulted in anything, it at least had a lurker send me this extremely relevant WoB to Adolin's personality that I'm going to go and enter into Arcanum. 

If she agrees, I'll add in the questioners name for proper attribution, but for the time being, seeing as she didn't want to post it herself, I'll leave her anonymous. 

Great WoB, but it proves nothing. I will highlight the portions that support your assertion in green, and the portions that support mine in blue:

 

Question:

In a recent WoB, you have stated you considered Adolin to be young, hotheaded, and impulsive. However, the narrative of Oathbringer seems to draw a very different portrayal of Adolin: he comes across as very level-headed. Hence, has Adolin's character changed since the early books? Should readers interpret Adolin as level-headed or impulsive?

Answer:

It's not really my place to argue questions like this--I need to write the text, and leave it for readers to interpret. However, I see Adolin (though growing and changing) still as being hotheaded. He refuses the throne, he repeatedly takes on foes much bigger and more dangerous than himself, he leads the charge in the assault on the palace, he decides to bring everyone to his tailor without consulting them on the idea.

Adolin is a guy who follows his gut. At the same time, he's a trained duelist--and has been prepared for battlefield command since his childhood. When you're in the middle of a war (or an event like the collapse of Kholinar) you need to be able to take command and make decisions. He'd be a terrible soldier and commander if he couldn't do this.

The fact that, despite his training, he does things like attack Sadeas and try to take on a Thunderclast by himself is the proof of his character.

 

So Adolin is hotheaded, but he is a trained duelist and commander since childhood. He will trust his gut, but will take command and make decisions that are for the best. If Adolin was purely ruled by his hot headedness, and will rush into situations that would get him killed, then he would not have given Maya to the shardbearer. Although Adolin makes the mistake of challenging too many shardbearers, he does not bull on ahead alone, but takes Kaladin's aid and works with him. Adolin lectures Dalinar and Shallan about effectively using the people under you to accomplish the goals the are better suited to. No where do I see a person who is so focused on being the one singlemindedly to accomplish something, that he would suicidal put him into a situation resulting in his death. Could it happen? Sure.

But it is most definitely not a unavoidable conclusion of having no powers. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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@Pathfinder seriously? I'm done here. The WoB was sharing because it was given to me and this is a discussion on Adolin as a character and as such it is relevant. It wasn't intended to prove anything.

And again, me stating my opinion is not shutting down discussion. People are free to disagree. I've stated the way that I think things will play out. You, and many others disagree. That's fine. 

What's different here, is that you're twisting it around to say that me stating my own reasoning is somehow preventing others from doing the same. 

I don't have to agree with you. You don't have to agree with me. That's all fine. I've stated the reasons I disagree with you, and you've done likewise. That's still fine. 

Saying that my reason is somehow attacking others ability to speak? No. 

Have a good day. 

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27 minutes ago, Calderis said:

And again, me stating my opinion is not shutting down discussion. People are free to disagree. I've stated the way that I think things will play out. You, and many others disagree. That's fine. 

What's different here, is that you're twisting it around to say that me stating my own reasoning is somehow preventing others from doing the same. 

I don't have to agree with you. You don't have to agree with me. That's all fine. I've stated the reasons I disagree with you, and you've done likewise. That's still fine. 

Saying that my reason is somehow attacking others ability to speak? No. 

Have a good day. 

I am not twisting anything. I have quoted you word for word. The argument is a straw man. Adolin could just as easily die with powers as without them. Adolin could just as easily be irrelevant with powers as without them. Adolin could just as easily live and be effective with powers as without them. Adolin could just as easily be relevant with powers as without them. 

I still maintain using page count, PoV number, and narrative "relevance" to provide commentary on theories is inaccurate and harmful. They are arbitrary metrics that accomplish nothing but simplifies and reduces a stance to us versus them. That if you believe Adolin will gain powers, then you want all the wonderfulness for Adolin. If you believe Adolin will not gain powers, then all you want is the death of Adolin, or him disappering from the narrative. The two are not mutually exclusive and presenting them as such is problematic. 

Otherwise as I have said before, I wish you luck with your theory!

Have a good day. 

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I do think Adolin will gain some degree of power, simply because the events already shown with Maya (summoning her in fewer than ten heartbeats, her attacking one of the Fused of her own volition in Shadesmar) would feel like unfired Chekov's guns if no further development happens.

That said, I don't think Adolin needs powers to contribute meaningfully to the war against Odium. Martial experience is clearly not a necessary criterion for becoming a Radiant, since we've seen spren bond to a cobbler and an orphanage administrator. As the series progresses, there may be more Radiants like Ym and Stump, who had civilian jobs prior to bonding a spren and don't know much more about swordfighting than "stick 'em with the pointy end." And even Radiants who are military trained may not be as adept at strategy as Adolin is--we see Adolin explaining principles like "shardbearers can't hold ground" to Kaladin a couple of times during OB. So I could see a non-powered Adolin acting as a teacher and general for the Radiants. Training them in combat techniques during downtime and directing them in battle.

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TL;DR 

Sorry, I’ll catch up with the thread later i have a pet theory about Adolin and Maya. I think that he will revive her with some external help (probably Dalinar) and it will be a crucial part in Szeths story arc.

I think that the Shin wars weren’t really wars of conquest but more of wars for shards. We know that in Feverstone Keep Dalinar saw 300 KR leave 300 shardblades behind, that was two orders of radiant worth of shards, mind you probably the two biggest orders in terms of membership so let’s say the other 6 left behind another 500 blades, that’s 800 shardblades! 
Althekar is said to be the country with most shards with about 30 shardblades, and some nations don’t have any at all. I believe that the missing blades are hidden in Shinovar and that retrieving and reviving them will be one of the main story arch’s in SA5.

Besides, Adolin is a young modern day Nohadon, I fully expect him to be highprince of war at some point.

 

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On 12/18/2019 at 9:03 PM, Kelsier'sGodComplex said:

I'm with you. I kinda want to see how he reacts to being the only one without a bonded spren. I don't want to cause my boy pain, but I think it's an important piece of his character development.

 

I do think it is possible though. I just don't know how.

I kind of want to split the difference. He slowly awakens her over the course of the next two books (giving him plenty of time to angst over not having a bond), before finally reviving and bonding Maya shortly before the end of Book Five. 

In the second half of the series he is a Radiant but, since it takes place years after, Adolin’s role would have been a very different one anyway. He may not even be a viewpoint characters at that point!

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So if Adolin does awaken Maya what Order do you guys think he would be? Or want for variety. 

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21 minutes ago, Ricocheting Windrunner said:

So if Adolin does awaken Maya what Order do you guys think he would be? Or want for variety. 

Edgedancer? Mayalaran is a Cultivation Spren. It’s not like bonding her would make him anything else...

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I tend to agree with @Calderis that the 'Normy' in the party is going to eventually become too outclassed to hang in fights with the full Radiants and Heralds and whatnot.  Ive seen it before with other stories and while talented writers have done creative and interesting things with those sorts of characters, but they still very often end up sidelined or sacrificed to plot, or else thy start really stretching credulity.  They get sacrificed to plot (literally or figuratively), logically but sadly sidelined, or turned into a Mary/Marty Sue that's more of a burden than their actually worth in the given situation (getting saved or carried or escort-quested around).  So while I do fully expect Maya to be revived (simply because she's laying so much groundwork for the possibility) I could very much support something new different. 

Random spit-balling possibilities:

  • She is revived, but Renarin does it with Regrowth (while in shadesmar) rather than being the result of a Bond.  She is back and a friend but understandably refuses to actually Bond again.
  • He revives her, but she is not capable of a full Radiant Bond, which gives him something stunted and more akin to a Squire's level of power, maybe basic stormlight but no surges
  • Navani Industries starts getting really innovative with combat Fabrials now that they have Dawnchant translations and living Heralds to talk to.  Adoline maintains his general role of Battle Commander, but does so with Plate and various Fabrial Augmentations.  Im picturing an Experimental Gravitation belt that he absolutely HATES being drafted to test, and not just because he crashes a lot (in front of a laughingly critical Bridge Four).
  • She is revived with Breaths by a certain Scholar, and all kinds of trans-shardic shenanigans result...
  • Adolin reveals previously unexplored talent as a battle commander (Desolations have made larger changes to folks), changes his Calling, and manages to stay relevant in a pure leadership capacity as the Command Tent sort rather than the field battalion Shardbearer.   Which would be really cool with his brother the Prescient Field Medic at his side in the tents.  You could even call the battle of Theylend Field foreshadowing when he gave his blade to that other shardbearer.  Also, as a barely relevant Wheel of Time comparison
    Spoiler

    This is precisely how one of the Series mains (Matt) took part in the climax, when everyone else had gained some sort of crazy magic power, he got Super Strategic Leadership

    .    
  • Adoline steps back from battle and becomes a gender-role-defying family man, raising Gavnor and his own future children with Shallan (who as Radiant and researcher is more the carrier woman of the pair).  He is relevant in a plot and character way, but steps back from the active combat.  Depending on how much of the rest of the conflicts happen on the battlefield vs the conference table, this could go either way.  
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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Random spit-balling possibilities:

  • She is revived, but Renarin does it with Regrowth (while in shadesmar) rather than being the result of a Bond.  She is back and a friend but understandably refuses to actually Bond again.
  • He revives her, but she is not capable of a full Radiant Bond, which gives him something stunted and more akin to a Squire's level of power, maybe basic stormlight but no surges
  • Navani Industries starts getting really innovative with combat Fabrials now that they have Dawnchant translations and living Heralds to talk to.  Adoline maintains his general role of Battle Commander, but does so with Plate and various Fabrial Augmentations.  Im picturing an Experimental Gravitation belt that he absolutely HATES being drafted to test, and not just because he crashes a lot (in front of a laughingly critical Bridge Four).
  • She is revived with Breaths by a certain Scholar, and all kinds of trans-shardic shenanigans result...
  • Adolin reveals previously unexplored talent as a battle commander (Desolations have made larger changes to folks), changes his Calling, and manages to stay relevant in a pure leadership capacity as the Command Tent sort rather than the field battalion Shardbearer.   Which would be really cool with his brother the Prescient Field Medic at his side in the tents.  You could even call the battle of Theylend Field foreshadowing when he gave his blade to that other shardbearer.  Also, as a barely relevant Wheel of Time comparison
      Reveal hidden contents

    This is precisely how one of the Series mains (Matt) took part in the climax, when everyone else had gained some sort of crazy magic power, he got Super Strategic Leadership

    .    
  • Adoline steps back from battle and becomes a gender-role-defying family man, raising Gavnor and his own future children with Shallan (who as Radiant and researcher is more the carrier woman of the pair).  He is relevant in a plot and character way, but steps back from the active combat.  Depending on how much of the rest of the conflicts happen on the battlefield vs the conference table, this could go either way.  

I think these all are some great possibilities!

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