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MasterK-Bob

How does Vasher survived during the weeping and the midpeace?

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My question is simple: Brandon has said that Vasher has hacked Stormlight to make it work like breath to sustain him in Roshar. I presume he has a reasonable amount of breath so that he wouldn't die immediately without stormlight, but does he lose breaths every midpeace and weeping since they last long enough that every sphere and gemstone is done unless it's huge? Or does he have huge gems hidden for exactly this reason? 

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There are larger gemstones that hold light throughout the weeping. I'm pretty sure there's a wob that confirms that's how Vasher survives them, but I can't find it. Not sure how he gets his hands on those gemstones though.

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He might not need any more investiture during those times. Sure, we don't know the exact conversion of breaths and stormlight, but its fully possible that on Roshar he's actually having a gain of investiture over the year by drawing more than a single breath worth of stormlight each week. In which case, he'd have a decent stockpile for when he's in situations where he can't reinvest himself every week.

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There are a few possible explanations, but we dont have any actual confirmation or specifics yet. 

As @HSuperLee points out, depending on the specifics of the "Hack" he uses he might be converting Stormlight to Breaths first, then feeding his Divine breath with that.  I doubt this one though, because if true I see no reason why that new Breathe wouldnt work for Awakening, and we've been told that his survival hack doesnt accomplish that.  

He could theoretically go to Cultivation's Perpendicularity (as a Worldhopper he'd know where it is) but we've seen him chilling in a hammock during the weeping, so I dont think this is his solution.  

He could have a stash of gems that he stores in Aluminum, which theoretically would bottle the Investiture inside until it was opened.  Or he could simply have some very large and/or well-cut gems that hold him over.  If he times it right he'd only need to cover one feeding during the weeping.  

He could have made a deal with a Spren to supply him with usable Investiture during that time, or perhaps his "Hack" is actually Old Magic rather than a trick he figured out himself.

 

Of Course, now all he has to do is learn how to cook Lift's favorite dishes.  

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I looked and couldn't find it either. No joint tags btw #Vasher and #Weeping

 

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On 12/12/2019 at 3:51 PM, MasterK-Bob said:

Or does he have huge gems hidden for exactly this reason? 

If we can assume that he can transfer Stormlight instead of living directly of Highstorms, he can just use multiple gems. He lets them leak doen to 5w%. Then he transfers the Stormlight from every second sphere into the other member of the pair. Rinse and repeat.

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There's no need to "hack" stormlight for this. The Divine Breath will feed off of any Investiture just like Nightblood (which technically means that when they don't get Investiture, the Divine Breath eats them).

Quote

Ilkhan2016

Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across.

AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar.

/u/mistborn is that right?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive.

To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture.

Extesian

This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form.

But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases...

You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it.

Celestial_Blu3

How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid.

General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019)

There's also the factor of time differences. The weeping is 4 Rosharan weeks. That's 20 twenty hour days. That's 16 ⅔ days in our time. 

On Nalthis a returned need a breath once a week... But that's actually on the 8th day 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Siri Enters and Sees Returned

Just a little note here. Returned live for eight days without a Breath, though the week is seven days long in this world. Why? Well, I figured that they'd need an extra day as leeway. On day seven, they start to grow weak and sluggish. If they don't consume a Breath, their body will consume their own on the eighth day of their life, and they'll die again.

In some parts of this world, Returned aren't worshipped, but instead seen as something akin to vampires. They draw in Breath to survive, and need a supply of people to feed off of. They tend to wear black, since it's the most powerful color for draining to Awaken things.

Warbreaker Annotations (Sept. 16, 2010)

Every other year, the weeping has a Highstorm right in the middle, which will probably negate the need for another source of Investiture at all. And during the long years, that would still probably only have to deal with one feeding in which stormlight availability is a problem... And in that case he probably just uses Breath. 

I don't think for a moment that Vasher has no stockpile of Breath. If he didn't, why keep the rope belt and his clothing in his signiture tatters? Those are all set for the purposes of awakening... Which he doesn't know how to use stormlight for. 

Edited by Calderis
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Perhaps he just keeps a large sphere around.

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I'm not sure what the "Stormlight to Breath conversion ratio" is from a raw Investiture perspective, but my guess is that it's entirely plausible that it would not take much Stormlight to satisfy a Returned's weekly need for Investiture and that a modest collection of smaller gems could hold enough Stormlight to get them through the weeping (Edit: upon further thought I remembered small gems lose Stormlight after a time, something even the OP mentioned but that did not register with me until just now :)). 

I wonder if it could also be possible that Vasher/Returned are able to hold Stormlight directly and without leakage, like a Radiant (I'm speculating it would be a virtue of having been Returned if so), and that they may not even need many/any gems to store Investiture for the weeping (though presumably holding too much would make him glow like a Radiant too, so seems less likely).  Regardless, Returned can presumably take in Stormlight if Vasher can make use of it to stay alive as BS has stated, but the Nalthin Spirit Web will likely prevent use of Stormlight for any purposes other than feeding Diving Breath (or however that should be phrased) so I don't think Returned would get the strength/speed/healing boons Radiants get while holding Stormlight.  Given that, I don't think they would passively burn through Stormlight to feed those boons and, if my logic stands up and Returned can actually hold Stormlight without leakage, then they may be able to hold Stormlight for much longer periods of time than Rosharan Radiants, who are keyed to consume Stormlight directly.

I'm sure @Calderis is 100% correct that Vasher keeps stockpiles of Breath and for a multitude of reasons, not least of which would be to keep him alive in a pinch, but if he is off of Nalthis then he has a very strong motivator to avoid using that stockpile for staying alive, else he'd have to occasionally jump back over to Nalthis and find more Breath (which may be happening for all we know).  Better to save Breath for sustainable use in Awakening.

Edit: I'd bet about anything that Vasher/Returned could also subsist off of Investiture from the Everstorm if they knew how.

Edited by StarrFall
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4 hours ago, StarrFall said:

Edit: I'd bet about anything that Vasher/Returned could also subsist off of Investiture from the Everstorm if they knew how.

I would take that bet.

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6 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

I would take that bet.

*WoB standing right behind me making me look dumb*

I just figured if he could hack one type of Investiture then he can hack others.  I suppose I really shouldn't shoot from the hip when "betting about anything"...

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2 hours ago, StarrFall said:

I suppose I really shouldn't shoot from the hip when "betting about anything"...

I don't suppose that bet is still open?  I could use a few million dollars and an indentured servant.:ph34r:

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