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Endowment's power over other shards


Ixthos

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I have a theory, but before I get to that theory let me address another theory, and another fact:

Fact: Honour's power is that of oaths and keeping to a code, and all shards are bound by their words, with the implication that Honours power binds other shards so that they can't break their oaths

Theory: Endowment forms a block with Preservation, Ruin, and Cultivation, being the mirror to Cultivation and a match with Preservation (I have a full theory on this outlining my theory on the remaining shards in another thread), with Endowment representing control via keeping a system in a limited set of states that it can change between - in essence, the system can change but it can't escape Endowment's control, you are free to move but only in the circle Endowment has drawn. Thus Endowment isn't just giving, but also taking - Breaths are added to the system, but Returned, Lifeless, and Nightblood show that the gifts can also be removed from circulation, so as to prevent the system from being disrupted. So Endowment represents the idea of "what you have is what you are given, and what you have been given can be taken from you by the one who gave you those gifts".

 

Now, this theory - the theory for the post - is that Honour's situation isn't unique, and so all shards are bound in part by the power of the others, and so - as the shards represent the most significant form of endowment in the series, that Endowment has the power to affect other shard's power, and that is Nightblood's purpose - a weapon to be used to keep other shards in line. As Honour forces shards to keep their promises, Endowment can directly affect the Vessels of shards, or some related property, which would explain her contempt for Odium as a threat as shown in the letter.

 

If this is the case, what do you think other shards can do to affect others? Thanks!

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Breath is the most easily accessible Investiture system with Identity keyed into it. Endowment encourages giving including the 'giving up' aspect of giving. To give, one has to lose. She doesn't just give herself but facilitate the act of giving via her magic system. What about Nightblood? Brandon has confirmed that Nightblood has Ruin's Investiture, doesn't that go beyond the purview of her control? 

I agree with the title that with Endowment's Intent, it seems like she'd be a lot more free than other Shards like Preservation and Honor in how she can act. She is supposed to be able to smite someone, according to Brandon.

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7 hours ago, Ixthos said:

...Endowment has the power to affect other shard's power, and that is Nightblood's purpose - a weapon to be used to keep other shards in line.

I don't agree with this part. Nightblood isn't anywhere near powerful enough to threaten a Shard. And it'd be really hard to get him into a position where he could harm a Vessel, since a Vessel's body is basically sublimated into the Shard's power once they've Ascended.

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5 hours ago, Honorless said:

I agree with the title that with Endowment's Intent, it seems like she'd be a lot more free than other Shards like Preservation and Honor in how she can act. She is supposed to be able to smite someone, according to Brandon.

I think you're reading too much into this WoB:

Quote

RandyD

Can a Shard just smite someone? Like, "Boom, you're dead," and they die?

Brandon Sanderson

So, Shards can do this, depending on where they are. For instance, Odium can't, but Endowment could.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

The key bit there is 'depending on where they are', I think. Endowment could smite someone in Warbreaker because she's Invested on Nalthis and has more influence on what happens there. Odium can't smite someone on Roshar because his Physical/Cognitive 'location' is on Braize and he avoids directly Investing himself in a world as much as possible. If you were on Braize itself you'd have good reason to worry about smiting but on Roshar we know Odium has to work through intermediaries. See the epilogue of Oathbringer for example.

Edited by Ookla the Nameless
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8 hours ago, Ookla the Nameless said:

I think you're reading too much into this WoB:

The key bit there is 'depending on where they are', I think. Endowment could smite someone in Warbreaker because she's Invested on Nalthis and has more influence on what happens there. Odium can't smite someone on Roshar because his Physical/Cognitive 'location' is on Braize and he avoids directly Investing himself in a world as much as possible. If you were on Braize itself you'd have good reason to worry about smiting but on Roshar we know Odium has to work through intermediaries. See the epilogue of Oathbringer for example.

Am I?

Preservation created Scadrial and he couldn't do that because of his Intent

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2 hours ago, Honorless said:

Preservation created Scadrial and he couldn't do that because of his Intent

Preservation is a special case. Given that Brandon explicitly qualified his statement about smiting with a reference to location, I'm pretty sure that it is in fact relevant. Yes, Preservation couldn't smite because of his Intent but Ruin sure as hell could based on his. Yet we know that even though Odium would love to kill Hoid he still needs to work through intermediaries on Roshar rather than doing the job himself, and he clearly has no problem killing since he's murdered his way through four Shards already. With smiting on Roshar, it's pretty clearly degree of Invested-ness, not Intent that's holding him back.

Edited by Ookla the Nameless
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Of course the Shardworld itself, given that most of them were designed by Adonalsium was important that made Investiture manifest in certain ways, as was the level of Investiture. As is the Intent, like you agreed. That was my point. That certain Intents would make certain actions impossible for the Vessel as with time they would become more and more aligned with their Shard's Intent aka the plot of Mistborn era 1. Don't misconstrue my argument. I said Endowment's Intent allowed more freedom of action.

As for Ruin, I doubt he could smite them with Preservation present, heck even with only Preservation's Investiture present. But since he had a hand in the creation of the world of Scadrial itself he could effectively smite them via natural disasters, which he did.

Edited by Honorless
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15 hours ago, RShara said:

I don't agree with this part. Nightblood isn't anywhere near powerful enough to threaten a Shard. And it'd be really hard to get him into a position where he could harm a Vessel, since a Vessel's body is basically sublimated into the Shard's power once they've Ascended.

I would have agreed with you a week ago, but then I read this, which is part of the reason I made this topic:

Quote

Questioner

If it's possible for Nightblood to actually interact with a Shard, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shard would try to stay very far away from Nightblood. Nightblood could not plausibly destroy an entire Shard but the Vessel could be in danger.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Which implies that Nightblood actually is a danger to the shards' holders, though not to the shard itself - a threat to the vessel who is endowed with the shard. Otherwise, do you agree that the shards are still in a sense touching one another, that Honour's nature preventing shards from breaking their promises - if that is the reason they can't do so - is also reflected in the other shards mutual interactions, and so Endowment would have some power over the other shards interfaces with the vessels, and possibly also explain Odium's effectiveness attacking other shards, due to the shard of Odium's relation with them?

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2 hours ago, Ixthos said:

I would have agreed with you a week ago, but then I read this, which is part of the reason I made this topic:

Which implies that Nightblood actually is a danger to the shards' holders, though not to the shard itself - a threat to the vessel who is endowed with the shard. Otherwise, do you agree that the shards are still in a sense touching one another, that Honour's nature preventing shards from breaking their promises - if that is the reason they can't do so - is also reflected in the other shards mutual interactions, and so Endowment would have some power over the other shards interfaces with the vessels, and possibly also explain Odium's effectiveness attacking other shards, due to the shard of Odium's relation with them?

Ok, Im going to preface this to say I dont really buy this theory (yet), for reasons both strong and weak, but it's a fun thought experiment so Im game. 

 

I dont think Endowment would be the kind to meddle with the others, at least based on her Letter.  She seems to take a very Hands-Off interpretation of an Endowment, its about passing Power along but not so much about maintaining control of that Gift.  But she might be the best choice to Act to ensure the un-held/dead Shards find their way to new Vessels. 

Honor's Nature seems to be more specifically focused on Bonds, on Connections (based on Honorspren calling themselves spren of Binding), so realy any Connections between Shards could be affected.  If so, his might have the power to manipulate what locations Shards are Connected to, manipulating where they are Invested.  S/He might also be able to help Sazed more fully Merge his two shards, reducing their internal antagonism.  He could be the source of Shards being bound by their Oaths, but I tend to think that is jus tht result of having Power that directly manipulates reality itself; Lying is hard when your statements can accidentally become reality.

Cultivation would likely be able to influence how the Shards change their Vessels over time, while preservation might be able to act to prevent it entirely.  

Perhaps Ambition could have smothered Rayse's...

 

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Ookla the Ingeniator said:

Ok, Im going to preface this to say I dont really buy this theory (yet), for reasons both strong and weak, but it's a fun thought experiment so Im game. 

 

I dont think Endowment would be the kind to meddle with the others, at least based on her Letter.  She seems to take a very Hands-Off interpretation of an Endowment, its about passing Power along but not so much about maintaining control of that Gift.  But she might be the best choice to Act to ensure the un-held/dead Shards find their way to new Vessels. 

Honor's Nature seems to be more specifically focused on Bonds, on Connections (based on Honorspren calling themselves spren of Binding), so realy any Connections between Shards could be affected.  If so, his might have the power to manipulate what locations Shards are Connected to, manipulating where they are Invested.  S/He might also be able to help Sazed more fully Merge his two shards, reducing their internal antagonism.  He could be the source of Shards being bound by their Oaths, but I tend to think that is jus tht result of having Power that directly manipulates reality itself; Lying is hard when your statements can accidentally become reality.

Cultivation would likely be able to influence how the Shards change their Vessels over time, while preservation might be able to act to prevent it entirely.  

Perhaps Ambition could have smothered Rayse's...

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with the hands off approach myself. After all, are you truly endowing something to someone if you are still controlling it?

I view the Intent as not the true nature of the Shards. What I think Intents are is a nature of Investiture interactions colored by a Cognitive aspect. Take Honor for instance, most people wouldn't view honor as being about Connections but it seems very important with the Shard. Likewise Endowment might very well be the transfer of Investiture through a system colored with the idea of gifting power. That again is only a theory 

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I don't see Endowment as being part of a block with Preservation, Ruin and Cultivation.  Preservation is about stasis, Ruin is about decay and Cultivation is about growth, but Endowment is more about giving power.  That doesn't do anything with the other three.

Ive done write ups on this before, but I think each of the shards belong in blocks of four, with internal, external, pushing and pulling attributes.  Preservation, Ruin and Cultivation seem to belong together as a sort of "temporal" unit.  Preservation (Internal Pulling), Ruin (External Pulling), and Cultivation (External Pushing).  

Endowment has no temporal feel to it.  It is not about stasis or change in any way.  Endowment is more like Ambition.  One is about increasing others (external pushing) and the other is about increasing one's self (internal pushing).  In order to have power in Endowment's magic system, you must have it given to you.  You cannot just take it.  It must be, in some way, willingly given.  It must be Endowed. 

 

We do have word that all shards affect the entire cosmere, not just their planet, so there is something to this theory.  I just don't think that Endowment belongs in a grouping with Ruin, Preservation and Cultivation, if there are indeed groupings at all.  

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I don't think it is Honor's power that makes the shards keep their promises.  The way the stormfather explains it a shard is a force.  Gravity can't stop pulling down on something for a moment just to get a better angle to pull two masses together.

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Not really something that deconfirms anything about the theory, obviously, but I feel it's worth noting that whatever her powers, she doesn't have a grand plan for the other Shards:

Quote

Questioner

What is Endowment’s long term plan?  Like just even in general, is she just like “Keep Nalthis safe” like Sazed is or is she like, does she have a plan for...

Brandon Sanderson

Nooo, um...

Questioner

You don’t have to tell me but like, does she have a plan that involves the cosmere...

Brandon Sanderson

Not really.

Questioner

...or is it just to stay on...

Brandon Sanderson

She’s more focused on her thing.

Calamity Philadelphia signing (Feb. 20, 2016)

 

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4 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

I don't think it is Honor's power that makes the shards keep their promises.  The way the stormfather explains it a shard is a force.  Gravity can't stop pulling down on something for a moment just to get a better angle to pull two masses together.

Yeah, there was a recent WOB that the whole "non compete pact" was not an actual pact because they didn't make an actual oath that would have bound them. So seems like oaths are binding for all the shards, not just "of Honor".

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (10-18-19):

So... they did not make an oath to it. There was a suggestion made... and perhaps the people who made the suggestion did not understand that, if you want the Shards to do something, you need an actual Oath. And they did not get one.

 

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I'm thinking there may be something to this theory,  although the actual mechanics may be wrong simply based on the amount of times Brandon has veered left of many people's thoughts in the fandom.  We've all been more wrong than right when it comes to theory craft. Anyway,  given that caveat I think the OP has stumbled on to something.  Look at the Heralds.  These ten individuals entered into a contract with a God and are somehow connected to each other regardless of distance or time. Each of these people held a specific role in the agreement and that role granted them certain powers,  both powers they all share and power specific to their position.  This may just be how magic works in the Cosmere. 

Another factor in this is that Shards, for all their power and so called wisdom,  are terrible at unique creation.  When Ati and Leras decided to create a world from scratch they used a Yolish blueprint. When Rayse got the Singers to summon the Everstorm,  it was new but of old design.  Chances are high that the agreement between the Heralds and Tanavast mirrors something that he'd already seen,  mainly the agreement they live under. And if that's the case it would not be unreasonable to assume that each of the 16 have greater roles in relation to each other. It would also help explain why Shards aren't really all that creative.  We've yet to see the Ingenuity Shard on screen so far. The closest we get is Cultivation,  though that's mostly about modifying something that already exists other than coming up with something without precedent. 

I can agree to a certain extent that different Shards have something that makes them able to manipulate their peers along certain defined lines. But I can't believe that the effect is all that strong.  

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Quote

Brandon Sanderson (10-18-19):

So... they did not make an oath to it. There was a suggestion made... and perhaps the people who made the suggestion did not understand that, if you want the Shards to do something, you need an actual Oath. And they did not get one.

Heres a thought.

Do all Shards hold abit of the other Shards by vessel contamination?

Meaning, did Ati, Leras, Tanavast etc etc have all the Shards essence in them like Scadrians have Ruin and Preservation? 

Is say Endowment 99.99999999r% Endowment and a near plank scale bit of the other 15 Shards.

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23 hours ago, Thanatos said:

Heres a thought.

Do all Shards hold abit of the other Shards by vessel contamination?

Meaning, did Ati, Leras, Tanavast etc etc have all the Shards essence in them like Scadrians have Ruin and Preservation? 

Is say Endowment 99.99999999r% Endowment and a near plank scale bit of the other 15 Shards.

I could believe it. Though I personally think it's because the Shards aren't as separate as everyone assumes

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On 12/12/2019 at 3:39 PM, Thanatos said:

Heres a thought.

Do all Shards hold abit of the other Shards by vessel contamination?

Meaning, did Ati, Leras, Tanavast etc etc have all the Shards essence in them like Scadrians have Ruin and Preservation? 

Is say Endowment 99.99999999r% Endowment and a near plank scale bit of the other 15 Shards.

In theory all of Existence was part of and arose from Adonalsium's Investiture before it was divided up among those 16,  so in that sense every planet and creature than existed should have had some mix of investiture that got reassigned, which I think fits with the wide variety of Spren we see on Roshar that have similar themes of other Shards, if nothing else.  But on the actual scale of Investiture I doubt it will be enough to move the needle in any significant sense, the same way even "uninvested" people still have some innate Investiture.  

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@Ookla the Ingeniator and @StanLemon My main point isn't that Endowment wants to micromanage things - and this is all theory - but rather that, unlike Cultivation, her interest isn't in things growing, but rather in them "playing nicely" with the toys they have been given - someone sitting on the sidelines and making sure things don't go outside of what she deems acceptable behaviour. Where those limits are isn't clear, and might allow for far more violence than what a human might think is acceptable, but I think she is mainly about people using what they have been given, rather than in them growing beyond those bounds - Cultivation wants you to grow and move beyond her, while Endowment wants you to stick to the rules - she has drawn a large circle, and so long as you stay inside that circle everything is fine. Cultivation wants you to step beyond that circle and keep running. Cultivation wants to cultivate you - grow beyond what you are. Endowment wants you to be endowed - what you have is what you are given. No more and no less.

I also think Honour is not just connections - if it were, why does the power of the Knights come from making and keeping promises? How do those count for connections, except as connections to ideals? Honours power - and the focus of the spren of Honour - are sticking to a code. I do like your ideas on how connection could work though, as well as how Cultivation would tie to the others! I'm curious what you mean by Ambition smothering Rayse though?

 

@Tglassy I don't want to derail my thread, but if you are interested in discussing the idea of Endowment not being part of that block - Order, any method approach to What you should do - please have a look at my thread on that here

I give reasoning for Endowment being in that block in one of the posts as well.

 

@Ookla the Prolific But - as Windrunners show - Gravity can indeed be manipulated, and the whole point of the vessels is to regulate the power. As mentioned in Hero of Ages, the power knows its tendency to just act is dangerous, and so needs a mind to govern it. The mind can then choose - though it becomes difficult - to act or not act, just as Vin could choose to use Preservation to destroy Ruin in order to Preserve, something the power can't do by itself. (my response to Bliev does contain a seeming contradiction on this, but I view it as rather an example of the rules being stretched while still followed, the forces still obeying their rules but the exact manner adjusted, so gravity still pulls but it never ends up pushing).

 

@Elegy That doesn't deconfirm the theory, as the main point is that each Shard has an idea of how the world should be, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a plan for everything, only their own small part of it - Endowment, as I said above - isn't about micromanaging, but rather that a general set of states is maintained. I mainly just compare her as the mirror to Culitvation - Culitvation has a long term view and wants things to expand, while Endowment is more about making sure everything under her control sticks more or less to her ideal - what she gives is what they have, but anyone she hasn't given anything to she doesn't care about, unless it comes into her sphere.

 

@Bliev I'm not referring to the non interference pact - which wasn't an agreement - but rather to the other statements that Shards can't break a promise if they have made a promise. I can't find the quote I'm thinking of, but here is something from Oathbringer (and yes, Ookla the Prolific, I am aware the underlined parts seem contradictory to what was said earlier, but as I noted, its not them breaking their rules, but rather the rules being stretched while still followed.)

Quote

“It doesn’t scream when I touch it,” he noted.
The knights, the Stormfather said in his head, broke their oaths. They abandoned everything they’d sworn, and in so doing killed their spren. Other Blades are the corpses of those spren, which is why they scream at your touch. This weapon, instead, was made directly from Honor’s soul, then given to the Heralds. It is also the mark of an oath, but a different type—and does not have the mind to scream on its own.
“And Shardplate?” Dalinar asked.
Related, but different, the Stormfather rumbled. You haven’t spoken the oaths required to know more.
“You cannot break oaths,” Dalinar said, fingers still resting on the Honorblade. “Right?”
I cannot.
“What of the thing we fight? Odium, the origin of the Voidbringers and their spren. Can he break oaths?”
No, the Stormfather said. He is far greater than I, but the power of ancient Adonalsium permeates him. And controls him. Odium is a force like pressure, gravitation, or the movement of time. These things cannot break their own rules. Nor can he.

I believe there are others, but I will need to check.

 

@Bigmikey357 thanks :-) I don't mean the affect is strong, but rather that this is the means by which they touch one another and so the means by which they can attack or interfere - and so for example the reason for Odium's advantage in attacking other shards is due to how his shard relates to theirs, and why Ambition was the biggest threat to Odium. (Side note - I think the possible Ingenuity shard - if there is one - is the one I call Crafting, Forging, Altruism, etc. in the above link, which is the mirror to Ambition and the block with Honour, Ambition, and Autonomy.)

 

@Thanatos I think it is more that each shard still touches the others in some way so that the shattering isn't a complete shattering, bur rather something that was a single whole now having deep cracks that allow each piece to move, but remain interlocked with each other. I think the shards are the Spiritual realm, or the core of it, and so can't ever fully be separated.

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17 hours ago, Ixthos said:

@Ookla the Ingeniator and @StanLemon My main point isn't that Endowment wants to micromanage things - and this is all theory - but rather that, unlike Cultivation, her interest isn't in things growing, but rather in them "playing nicely" with the toys they have been given - someone sitting on the sidelines and making sure things don't go outside of what she deems acceptable behaviour. Where those limits are isn't clear, and might allow for far more violence than what a human might think is acceptable, but I think she is mainly about people using what they have been given, rather than in them growing beyond those bounds - Cultivation wants you to grow and move beyond her, while Endowment wants you to stick to the rules - she has drawn a large circle, and so long as you stay inside that circle everything is fine. Cultivation wants you to step beyond that circle and keep running. Cultivation wants to cultivate you - grow beyond what you are. Endowment wants you to be endowed - what you have is what you are given. No more and no less.

No, that's a reasonable interpretation, especially given her general tone in her Letter.  Im not sure that sort of Play Nice chaperone mentality fits with her overall erratic nature as described in WOB, but I could just as easily be wrong. 

17 hours ago, Ixthos said:

I also think Honour is not just connections - if it were, why does the power of the Knights come from making and keeping promises? How do those count for connections, except as connections to ideals? Honours power - and the focus of the spren of Honour - are sticking to a code. I do like your ideas on how connection could work though, as well as how Cultivation would tie to the others!

I was thinking Connection in the sense of making various kinds of Spiritual Connections, Oaths and Bonds but also friendships and patriotism and that sort of thing that get reduced when a feruchemist stores it.  There's a strong focus on Oaths with Tanavast, though the Lightweavers that just need to be self aware as they go but arent actually restricted by their Truths, so I dont personally think Sticking to a Code is all it's about.  If relationships are Connections the way they seem to be with feruchemy, then it would make sense that Promises and Oaths and other forms of Commitment would forge those sorts of Connections.    Does that make any sense?

17 hours ago, Ixthos said:

I'm curious what you mean by Ambition smothering Rayse though?

Per WOB Rayse is going after the other shards because he wants to be "top dog", to be the most powerful being in the Cosmere.  I could call that an ambition, so if Shards can affect each other within their own purview, perhaps Ambition would have been able to pacify or bottle the ambitions in Rayse.  Or the opposite, if they were more destructively inclined

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Big C Connection is a foundational part of the Cosmere. It just makes sense to me that Shards would not be immune to the effects of connection even when it comes to their interactions with each other. Endowment is connected to every instance of endowment Cosmere wide through the SR, even though Edgli doesn't have access to all of it because she's cannot be aware of all of it (expanded but still finite consciousness). Same with Ruin, Dominion,  Odium,  any of the shards.  

The implications for these connections is that if there's a thread then that thread can be manipulated.  Shards are an incomplete whole, so they're likely only able to manipulate that thread in a specific way related to their Intent. 

You know,  it occurs to me that a whole person would be far more capable of manipulating the connections between Shards than the Shards themselves, far less restrictive in what they could do. If only regular people could gain the type of power necessary to get into the Shard manipulation game without actually becoming a Vessel. Who knows?  Maybe it was possible when Uncle Addie was whole, and why a group would decide to shatter him, maybe Hoid is trying to gain that type of power right now. Really there's so many possibilities. 

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@Ookla the Ingeniator fair enough, though don't mean Endowment's mandate is specifically to watch for any infraction, only that she isn't into micromanaging and rather she sets up systems which she only interferes with if someone looks like they might step out of the circle, or perhaps not if they look like they will but only if they do. She cares about the system as a whole, rather than the individual parts.

 That does make sense, and is a rather interesting and compelling argument  :-) I do think Honour is more than that though, but I do agree that is a large part of what Honour is, just not the most essential part. Lightweavers, for example, tie into the same idea as Klingon Lawyers - you can be honourable and a warrior even when your battlefield isn't one of bat'leths and phasers - Lightweavers are how an artist can be honourable, by making what isn't true into what is true, turning how things should be and could be into reality and being true to oneself, though a large part of that depends on how you see honour and how it can be expressed.

Ahhh, I see. Makes sense :-) My own understanding of Ambition is that it is about fettering others to liberate and improve oneself - why I think Honour (fetter oneself to improve oneself), Ambition, Autonomy (liberate oneself and others), and one of the hypthetical shards for Crafting or Altruism (fetter oneself to help others / improve others) form a block - so Ambition could have maybe added restrictions to Odium or worked to improve itself and make itself stronger, making it the main threat to Odium. After all, a shard which has no problems making itself stronger while hindering those who are a threat to it definitely would make sense as a major threat.

 

@Bigmikey357 Indeed! I think you and I are thinking the same regarding this, at least in part.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/10/2019 at 6:15 AM, Ixthos said:

I have a theory, but before I get to that theory let me address another theory, and another fact:

Fact: Honour's power is that of oaths and keeping to a code, and all shards are bound by their words, with the implication that Honours power binds other shards so that they can't break their oaths

Theory: Endowment forms a block with Preservation, Ruin, and Cultivation, being the mirror to Cultivation and a match with Preservation (I have a full theory on this outlining my theory on the remaining shards in another thread), with Endowment representing control via keeping a system in a limited set of states that it can change between - in essence, the system can change but it can't escape Endowment's control, you are free to move but only in the circle Endowment has drawn. Thus Endowment isn't just giving, but also taking - Breaths are added to the system, but Returned, Lifeless, and Nightblood show that the gifts can also be removed from circulation, so as to prevent the system from being disrupted. So Endowment represents the idea of "what you have is what you are given, and what you have been given can be taken from you by the one who gave you those gifts".

 

Now, this theory - the theory for the post - is that Honour's situation isn't unique, and so all shards are bound in part by the power of the others, and so - as the shards represent the most significant form of endowment in the series, that Endowment has the power to affect other shard's power, and that is Nightblood's purpose - a weapon to be used to keep other shards in line. As Honour forces shards to keep their promises, Endowment can directly affect the Vessels of shards, or some related property, which would explain her contempt for Odium as a threat as shown in the letter.

 

If this is the case, what do you think other shards can do to affect others? Thanks!

I actually think Endowment more closely correlates with Shechina, God’s Glory. Which would probably put her in a block with D&D whom, together, I think would be Malchius - Kingship.

I think Endowment’s true mirror is Autonomy. Autonomy is God as the one, singular, with no equal. Endowment would be God among his people. 

Also, Shechina is a feminine word and Edgli is female. And Glory is associated with light, which fits Nalthis very well.

Ambition is simply a desire to accomplish. There is nothing that demands this be at the expense of others. On the contrary, one could have an ambition to improve things for everyone.

Ambition is not inherently negative; that belief likely stems from a time when class boundaries were much stricter. Obviously, an ambition to better one’s lot would not be looked at kindly. It also became an anti-Semitic stereotype (Jews being seen as ambitious), which did not help ambition’s reputation.

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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@Kingsdaughter613 That is a compelling argument. However, Brandon has said that Autonomy is an opposite of Honour, and Autonomy is focused on making copies of itself or extensions that think of themselves in the plural. I suspect that Autonomy, Honour, Ambition, and a hypothetical shard of Altruism/Crafting/Forging form a block, all focused on duty and fetters and how that relates to improving oneself. Honour is fettering oneself to improve oneself, Ambition is fettering others and unfettering oneself to improve oneself, Altruism - the hypothetical shard - is fettering oneself to improve others, and Autonomy would be unfettering oneself and others, possibly to help them.

 

I agree Ambition isn't necessarily negative, as no shard is, but as has been shown on Threnody its remains enact restrictions on others and can force changes on them. As the shard Ambition represents an idea that closely matches ambition, but isn't necessarily just ambition but something similar, I don't think it is too much of a stretch. I am not Jewish, but I love the Jewish people and Israel, and I agree that far too many such stereotypes have been promulgated against the Jewish people, and the roles cultures forced on them do not define them.

 

Side note, but based on what you have said, am I right in assuming you have studied the Kabbalah?

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9 hours ago, Ixthos said:

@Kingsdaughter613 That is a compelling argument. However, Brandon has said that Autonomy is an opposite of Honour, and Autonomy is focused on making copies of itself or extensions that think of themselves in the plural. I suspect that Autonomy, Honour, Ambition, and a hypothetical shard of Altruism/Crafting/Forging form a block, all focused on duty and fetters and how that relates to improving oneself. Honour is fettering oneself to improve oneself, Ambition is fettering others and unfettering oneself to improve oneself, Altruism - the hypothetical shard - is fettering oneself to improve others, and Autonomy would be unfettering oneself and others, possibly to help them.

 

I agree Ambition isn't necessarily negative, as no shard is, but as has been shown on Threnody its remains enact restrictions on others and can force changes on them. As the shard Ambition represents an idea that closely matches ambition, but isn't necessarily just ambition but something similar, I don't think it is too much of a stretch. I am not Jewish, but I love the Jewish people and Israel, and I agree that far too many such stereotypes have been promulgated against the Jewish people, and the roles cultures forced on them do not define them.

 

Side note, but based on what you have said, am I right in assuming you have studied the Kabbalah?

Nope, did not study Kabbalah. I’m female and I’m too young. Besides my grandfather, who is far more learned than I, says he’ll learn Kabbalah when he understands Chumash-Rashi. He’s still working on it, and I’m nowhere near that knowledgeable.

God’s attributes are fairly basic stuff though. You just need to pay attention during prayers.

Here’s your WoB:

 

Calamity Denver signing (Feb. 19, 2016)
#14 

Nashan'Elin (paraphrased)

Could Honor and Autonomy be considered opposites, like, Autonomy freeing from Honor's oaths?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, you could definitely think of it that way. Those two are more likely to be opposed than some others.

#autonomy #honor

It doesn’t confirm them as mirrors, just that they can be perceived as such.

I actually think Autonomy making Avatars of itself is a bit of irony, since I do believe it about God in the singular. In this case it’s the unique aspect; God has no body, gender, etc. But the Vessel DID have all these things, and is slowly going insane because its Shard keeps insisting that they DON’T have -or ever had- a body, gender, physical aspects, etc. 

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