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Taln's honorblade


Zefandrius

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10 honourblades for each of the heralds. We know that moash ended up with 1 at the end of OB. 7 others are owned by Szeth's people still and herald of justice has his own blade. Taln's blade is the 10th but when he arrived in kholinar he did not have it and instead had an ordinary shardblade. So where is his honorblade? Speculations?

There is 1 quote that kind of bothers me. Eshonai mentioned to the 5 that they had left an honourblade in kholinar when they fled after assassinating Gavilar. This could be her referencing Szeth but that doesn't make sense. They know he succeeded and could get away. Perhaps it was Taln's blade that they left? But, how could they have gotten it?

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I do not remember this mention made by Eshonai of leaving an honorblade back in Kholinar. But interesting. 
I always thought that Hoid did something with the honorblade. May be he took it on the journey to shattered plains and left in its place a deadeye Shardblade. So, no suspicion can come on him. 

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10 minutes ago, The traveller said:

I do not remember this mention made by Eshonai of leaving an honorblade back in Kholinar. But interesting. 
I always thought that Hoid did something with the honorblade. May be he took it on the journey to shattered plains and left in its place a deadeye Shardblade. So, no suspicion can come on him. 

That is possible. Perhaps he thought that he would be too mad to protect it properly. But, why not stay with him to make sure Dalinar got it? But yes, after the battle when sadeas betrayed dalinar and kaliden fought eshonai. She spoke with the 5 and they mentioned Kaliden glowing. She said, "It could have been an honorblade. We left one in Kholinar that night."

That line seems to bother me. How would they have an honorblade?

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@Zefandrius,

There's a timeline discrepancy there with Gavilar's assassination and Taln's arrival.

And Taln did arrive in Kholinar with his own blade, it was swapped later before he was transported to the Shattered Plains.

Quote

Questioner

Why didn't Dalinar get the powers of a Stoneward when he bonded Taln's [Honorblade]?

Brandon Sanderson

Some readers have already figured this out, so I don't think I'm engaging in too large a spoiler to dig into this one here.

There are several oddities going on here. The most important one relevant to this question is the Blade in question. If you compare the descriptions of the sword described in the epilogue of The Way of Kings to the one that traveled with the madman (allegedly Taln, the Herald) to the Shattered Plains, you'll find they are different.

The one that the characters obtained in Words of Radiance is NOT an Honorblade. It's an ordinary Shardblade (as ordinary as one of those can be called.) I'm not going to say specifically what happened to the Blade Taln arrived with at Kholinar, but I will say that it IS a different weapon from the one in Words of Radiance.

The other issue here is the somewhat lesser question of whether this character is actually Taln, the Herald, or not. Some characters in-world don't believe that it is, though his viewpoint in Words of Radiance strongly implies otherwise. This isn't specifically relevant to the conversation for reasons I'll talk about below--but it is tangentially related. Because in the cosmere, Intent is important to many of the types of magic. It's theoretically possible to hold an Honorblade and not realize what its powers are, and therefore be unable to access them.

As an aside, this character was actually the primary protagonist of the version of The Way of Kings I wrote in 2002. A man who woke up, with lingering memories of madness, and claimed to be a Herald when nobody believed him--as he couldn't manifest any powers, seemed to have lost his sword, and lore said the Heralds weren't coming back anyway.

When I wrote the new version of The Way of Kings in 2009 or so, one goal was to focus the storyline. I'd included so many characters in the 2002 version that none of them progressed very far in their arcs, creating a strong setting and interesting characters--but a bad book. During the new version, I decided that this character would be moved to the later books, and I'd explore him there.

In the 2002 version, the text was very dodgy on whether or not Taln was a Herald. Confronting the fact that he might be crazy was a major arc and theme of the book--however, as I've worked on the new version, I've realized that it would be dangerous to be too vague on this. Stringing people along with the question for a book or two is one thing, waiting until book six or eight to do a character's arc, and leaving the question of whether they're a Herald or not all that time, seemed unfair.

So the text is going to be making manifest fairly quickly who this person is. You'll have confirmations long before we dig into his viewpoint in the later books.

So, a recap:

1) The swords WERE swapped somehow.

2) Someone could hold an Honorblade and not realize they had access to powers.

3) This character may or may not actually be a Herald--but the text is going to make the answer clear, and I'm not trying to trick you.

FAQFriday 2017 (May 19, 2017)

@The traveller

Will Szeth just tell them if they asked, "they" being the current holder of his oathstone?

Brandon has confirmed that it wasn't Hoid

Quote

Questioner

At the very end of Words of Radiance, Dalinar touches a Shardblade and it screams at him. Shouldn't that particular Blade have been safe?

Brandon Sanderson

No it should not have. It's a clue that something has happened.

[...]

[This is] a question that the subtle reader should be asking. And there are other clues that something is wrong with what the story you've been told is.

Questioner

Because Option 2 is that it's unsafe to touch an honorblade, but there's no evidence of that.

Brandon Sanderson

There is no evidence of that. In fact there's much stronger evidence that something else is going on.

Questioner 2

Did Hoid switch out the blades?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

Words of Radiance San Francisco signing (March 6, 2014)  
Quote

Questioner

Does a Hoid have two Honorblades?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid has no Honorblades.

Questioner

Whats wrong on both counts, actually? Brandon gave them to him, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Currently has no Honorblades.

Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014)

 

Edited by Honorless
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12 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Will Szeth just tell them if they asked, "they" being the current holder of his oathstone?

@Zefandrius,

There's a timeline discrepancy there with Gavilar's assassination and Taln's arrival.

And Taln did arrive in Kholinar with his own blade, it was swapped later before he was transported to the Shattered Plains.

He didnt tell the parshindi until they pressed him. They only found him because of a "voice", which I think was a void spren, that told them how to find him in kholinar. Even then I dont think he told them he had an honorblade. Only that he had abilities. Though I am sure they figured it out. He went through dozens of masters and never told them about the blade. Regardless, they knew Szeth could escape. So i doubt they referred to him when they mentioned an honorblade. As for Taln's arrival in Kholinar it never said how long he was on Roshar before arriving there. Could have been years, we dont know.

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Again, no. Taln arrived on Roshar at that time in Kholinar, hence the rambling and the arrival of the Last Desolation. Brandon also talks about this factually, as far as I can tell and recall. We have no reason to suspect this.

Edited by Honorless
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13 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Again, no. Taln arrived on Roshar at that time in Kholinar, hence the rambling and the arrival of the Last Desolation. Brandon also talks about this factually, as far as I can tell and recall. We have no reason to suspect this.

I agree, but still brings the question. Where is Taln's honorblade? Someone had to have swapped it in kholinar. Someone who knew for a fact that he was a herald. Someone who had access to a shardblade. Perhaps a member of sons of honor that still remained in kholinar? Dont know why Hoid would replace it. He trusts Dalinar...

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16 minutes ago, Honorless said:

So far it's been RAFO'd, so it's quite plot relevant, aside from the usual suspects, the secret societies, it could also have been a switch made by another Herald.

Idk, I doubt was another herald. Most of them truly believed that the singers weren't coming back or were completely crazy. Seems more likely to be someone in kholinar part of a secret organization that knew the heralds would return. Maybe a diagram member or ghost blood.

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1 minute ago, Zefandrius said:

Idk, I doubt was another herald. Most of them truly believed that the singers weren't coming back or were completely crazy. Seems more likely to be someone in kholinar part of a secret organization that knew the heralds would return. Maybe a diagram member or ghost blood.

Ghostbloods probably not given that we've seen of their top membership present there and The Diagram specifically needed Malata to open the Oathgates in OB so nope

We haven't seen all of the Heralds yet and we don't know anything of what the Heralds thought of the Singers so far.

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7 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Ghostbloods probably not given that we've seen of their top membership present there and The Diagram specifically needed Malata to open the Oathgates in OB so nope

We haven't seen all of the Heralds yet and we don't know anything of what the Heralds thought of the Singers so far.

That is a pretty good point. But, what would one of the heralds want with Taln's blade. They willingly gave up there own and never wished to go retrieve it...I do think that a few of the heralds are in fact involved in a lot of things going on. I have been suspicious that one of the ghostbloods might be a truthwatcher. Would explain how they always have so much info that doesn't make sense how they would know.

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@Zefandrius Taln did arrive with his Honorblade. The blades were swapped some time between the end of tWoK and his arrival at the Shattered Plains. The description of the blades is very different.

The end of tWoK 

Quote

To his side, he carried a massive Shardblade, point down, sticking about a finger’s width into the stone, his hand on the hilt. The Blade reflected torchlight; it was long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike.

The blade that arrived at the Plains, which Dalinar bonded. 

Quote

White mist coalesced in Dalinar’s fingers, and a Shardblade appeared, tip to Amaram’s throat. Wider than most, it was almost cleaverlike in appearance.

There are multiple WoBs asking why Dalinar did not get powers from the blade, and they've all been either RAFO'd for the earlier ones, or this has been pointed out. 

Where Taln's blade has gone is a mystery, but he did arrive with it. Personally, I think he simply summoned it back, dismissed it, and he still has it and someone else planted the second blade to protect him. 

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3 hours ago, Zefandrius said:

That is a pretty good point. But, what would one of the heralds want with Taln's blade. They willingly gave up there own and never wished to go retrieve it...I do think that a few of the heralds are in fact involved in a lot of things going on. I have been suspicious that one of the ghostbloods might be a truthwatcher. Would explain how they always have so much info that doesn't make sense how they would know.

Nale went back for his blade and we know that the Heralds infrequently swapped their Honorblades with each other so it's not completely impossible that one of them might have retrieved Taln's blade for some reason, either to use it or to protect it. It doesn't seem all that likely but it could have happened.

As far as the Ghostbloods knowing things, Truthwatcher could certainly explain it (especially as a 'normal' one views the present, not the future) but we know they've got worldhoppers with potential access to multiple magic systems (Mraize's trophy collection is full of Invested objects from other worlds) so having a member with some means of viewing the Spiritual Realm or making use of Fortune a la Riino's sphere is at least as likely as them having a Truthwatcher on their payroll.

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A ghostblood took it, or one of the Sons of Honor either could recognize it from drawings or other things, an independent Truth watcher could take it. What Eshonai meant is a whole other matter, perhaps in reference to the missing herald when Szeth killed Gavilar. BTW do we have an explanation for that?

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  • 2 weeks later...
15 minutes ago, Honorless said:

The real question is why would the Shin give Szeth an Honorblade or allow him to retain it after his exile?

I remember @Calderis having a theory about this once? A few years back. I think it's mostly around Szeth possibly being a respected Stone Shaman before his exile and thus he's bonded to the Honorblade until his death or until it's removed from him by the leader of the Shamanate. 

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6 hours ago, Bliev said:

I remember @Calderis having a theory about this once? A few years back. I think it's mostly around Szeth possibly being a respected Stone Shaman before his exile and thus he's bonded to the Honorblade until his death or until it's removed from him by the leader of the Shamanate. 

You mean this one? 

A lot of the elements of Szeth's proposed storyline in that thread I still hope for, but at this point, I think it's most likely that Taln simply summoned his blade back, and has it dismissed. 

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On 12/18/2019 at 10:28 AM, Honorless said:

The real question is why would the Shin give Szeth an Honorblade or allow him to retain it after his exile?

I thought it was part of truthlessness they give them an honorblade send them out and when they die they collect it.

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On 12/21/2019 at 10:09 AM, Booknerd said:

I thought it was part of truthlessness they give them an honorblade send them out and when they die they collect it.

Szeth is not a normal situation. 

Quote

Questioner

Are all Truthless given Honorblades when they're cast out, or is Szeth a special case?

Brandon Sanderson

Szeth is a special case.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 21, 2017)

 

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Honorblades are still something one bonds - Szeth gives up the bond as he falls from the sky, and was seen in the first chapter of TWoK to use Stormlight and Surgebinding even without the Honorblade in his hand. So for Taln's Honorblade to truly be taken away from him, doesn't that mean he'd have to have released it (as the other Heralds had done in the Prologue of TWoK)?

When he falls unconscious at the gates of Kholinar and his Blade doesn't disappear, is that supposed to imply he's unbonded it (either after re-appeared on Roshar, or in that very moment of falling insensate)? Or is it possible his Honorblade is still bonded to him, and he could summon it if he wanted to, but he's just too "out of it" to do so?

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