Mid-Range Game 39: For Science

[Kynedath]

Remy looked around the room over the top of the map in his hands. Many of them seemed on edge, one even barking in his direction about computer . . . something. He seemed to be paying for components. If Remy wasn't already working for the doctor then he might consider it, but he liked doing one job at a time. That left him plenty of time for his side projects. He looked back down at the map in his hands and mumbled to himself "I might just have bitten off more than I can chew."

The name of the cartographer in the bottom left corner caught his eye again: Constantine. His name. The map depicted the small portion of the tunnels under Newcago, the original reason he had come to the city of eternal night, the city of steel as some called it. He didn't really want to be here anymore, he wanted to see the ocean again, and see the stars like he had on the Provence back in France. Alas, the mighty ship would ne'er sail again because of Tiamat, the French Epic.

Despite the oppressive constant night felt in Newcago, Remy found himself staying; he would always remember the feeling of his few expeditions down into the tunnels and the sense of exploration that made his heart soar. So to pay for his stay he had found the doctor and had sold him his services. After all, Remy was a sailor, he knew how to handle himself in a fight. He could handle the heavy-lifting this job required and it gave him an excuse to go out into the maze he so desperately wanted to explore.

Remy folded up his map and took his feet off the chair in front of him and looked out once again to the room full of his colleagues. "Mon dieu, if I am to settle here for the duration of my expedition, I should probably find out why everyone looks so prepared to bolt." And so Remy Constantine was scanning the room, trying to map out who was there to make trouble and who he could rely on. After all, he was good at making maps.

[StrikerEZ]

@BrightnessRadiant Wait, I just noticed something. Are there really no binoculars in the black market? 

[+Ed Venture]

Charley found himself stalking the dark tunnels beneath Newcago. Beneath the beneath of Newcago even. He messed up. He messed up big time. The darkness helped him think, and the complete silence helped him focus. Tablecloths weren’t that big of a deal anymore. No one would buy from him. So Charley found himself without money, only a handful of tablecloths, and desperation, as he hunted for the gangs. Maybe one could help him? He needed money. Just a few weeks would be enough.

Of course, nothing would come that easily. He applied, got the job, and then landed smack dab in the middle of a crisis. A dagger had gone missing and who knows what else was about to happen? Charley would just leave now...but his business needed this money. Just a few more days. His tablecloths could wait till then. And, if he solved all the chaos, the boss would probably reward him.

Leaving the dank corner he was crouching in, Charley walked up to someone and asked, “Well...this crazy business about daggers and epics? Too much for us common folks eh?”

~ ~ ~

If anyone wants to respond, I’m down.

This black market business is fun. I’m a little worried about the massive quantities of daggers, a easy way for almost anyone to block actions would become a problem. But...I’m sure that everything will balance itself out in the end.

The gun isn’t that bad? One-use and only one that’s known. I assume that there are two more? Maybe only one.

[Furamirionind]

Kinda too tired to respond to everything I'd like to, but yeah, turn 7 is the earliest a gun can get used. Made a mistake about turn 8. Not super important, but could be later.

Also, I just spent 5 minutes trying to @ Cadmium Compounder, just to find CadCad actually shortened his name... lol I really am tired.

Anyways, @CadCom

You think the elims will start with a smoke bomb? If that was the case, that elim would just always submit the kills and the binoculars would never have a chance of catching them.  I think this would make sense if the binoculars were in the black market, or are at least prevalent, as this would indicate the primary use of the binoculars is to see peoples actions and not the elim kill.  However, if that *is/was* the case, I would expect fewer smoke bombs (or possibly none at all) in the black market, as the more in circulation, the more meaningless the binoculars are.

Does that make any sense? I'll probably reread it in the morning and need to clarify.

[Kidpen]

Geema stepped out into the market, perusing the stalls of various illegal items. She was among the oldest there, as far as she knew. Contraband has always been a young woman's game. That's never stopped Geema though. She examined the items like a hawk eyeing her prey.

Almost nothing was of any value. Only 5 or so really, with varying amounts of inventory in stock. She would have to save up to get the real good items. Unless, of course, she just decided to buy as many strongboxes as possible and make russian nesting doll type thing. That could be fun, she thought. Probably not worth the money though. :shrug: she emoticoned, but in real life, so actually she just genuinely shrugged. 

***

Hello! I exist. Finals are finishing up tomorrow, but they're easy finals and winter break starts right after that.

27 minutes ago, Ookla the Journey said:

This black market business is fun. I’m a little worried about the massive quantities of daggers, a easy way for almost anyone to block actions would become a problem. But...I’m sure that everything will balance itself out in the end.

This doesn't seem like that much of a problem, realistically? The only things a knife could possibly block are the gun, binoculars, knife, strongbox storing, stealing, elim kill, and item steal guarding. None of that seems super detrimental to the village tbh, unless I'm missing something. As long as nobody is incredibly obvious with what actions they plan to take, it shouldn't matter. 

Actually, maybe I should check. @BrightnessRadiant does the knife block the bulletproof vest or smokebomb? I'm assuming it doesn't but worth checking.

also if this is stupid you can probably ignore it, I'm a bit tired and stressed right now. I'll look at this again tomorrow to see if I'm just forgetting something obvious.

[StrikerEZ]

On 12/19/2019 at 11:48 PM, Twibanu said:

You think the elims will start with a smoke bomb? If that was the case, that elim would just always submit the kills and the binoculars would never have a chance of catching them.  I think this would make sense if the binoculars were in the black market, or are at least prevalent, as this would indicate the primary use of the binoculars is to see peoples actions and not the elim kill.  However, if that *is/was* the case, I would expect fewer smoke bombs (or possibly none at all) in the black market, as the more in circulation, the more meaningless the binoculars are.

I’m pretty sure the smoke bomb is a one use thing. Which would mean that, even if the elims started with one, they would have to wait until at least cycle 3 to buy another, and cycle 4 to even get to use it. Which means they would have to be smart about when they use that first smoke bomb.

On 12/20/2019 at 0:08 AM, Ookla the Procrastinator said:

This doesn't seem like that much of a problem, realistically? The only things a knife could possibly block are the gun, binoculars, knife, strongbox storing, stealing, elim kill, and item steal guarding. None of that seems super detrimental to the village tbh, unless I'm missing something. As long as nobody is incredibly obvious with what actions they plan to take, it shouldn't matter. 

Actually, maybe I should check. @BrightnessRadiant does the knife block the bulletproof vest or smokebomb? I'm assuming it doesn't but worth checking.

Knives are probably gonna be pretty useful, because they basically can block anything. If the elims already got one, it’s gonna be hard for the village to get anything done if the elims know who to target. And if the elims do have one, I bet the village has at least one, if not two, already. That could either be a blessing or a curse, depending on how good at guessing alignments the stabber is. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by StrikerEZ

[BrightnessRadiant]

9 hours ago, Twibanu said:

Is someone able to spend their action to pass their item to someone else?

I was somehow remiss in putting this into the rules even tho it was originally planned. Thanku for pointing it out. Yes you may use an action to pass an item.

9 hours ago, Twibanu said:

Is a player allowed to pass a Strongbox? What if the box has an Item in it?

Clever question yes you may pass a strong box with an item inside

 

4 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

am I allowed to purchase items this turn with the points I would possibly be receiving?

If you fulfill the requirements and put in an order than yes you will be able to order an item that can be used next cycle.

 

4 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

is there a limit on how many items you can hold at a time? Can you pass items to another player? 

No limit.

Yes.

Also yes there are no binoculars in the black market.

I have to leave to watch star wars but I'll answer the rest when I get back

 

 

[Furamirionind]

6 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

Clever question yes you may pass a strong box with an item inside

I have to leave to watch star wars but I'll answer the rest when I get back 

Should have asked in our PM xD. Did not expect this Lol

Have fun! ... I thought it came out tomorrow... But whatever : )

[Elandera]

32 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I’m pretty sure the smoke bomb is a one use thing. Which would mean that, even if the elims started with one, they would have to wait until at least cycle 3 to buy another, and cycle 4 to even get to use it. Which means they would have to be smart about when they use that first smoke bomb.

I thought the same, but when I looked more I to it, there doesn't seem to be any indication that it's one-time only, unlike the wording with the gun. @BrightnessRadiant, could you clarify? 

[BrightnessRadiant]

3 hours ago, Elandera said:

I thought the same, but when I looked more I to it, there doesn't seem to be any indication that it's one-time only, unlike the wording with the gun. @BrightnessRadiant, could you clarify? 

Smoke bombs are a one time use.

3 hours ago, Ookla the Procrastinator said:

Actually, maybe I should check. @BrightnessRadiant does the knife block the bulletproof vest or smokebomb? I'm assuming it doesn't but worth checking.

Shoot I totally forgot to add the knife in the OoA list. The knife does block any action. The vest is passive and therefore does not take an official action so no it would not be blocked by a knife. The knife would block a smoke bomb because it takes an action to use it. For clarification as well, it does not block buying from the black market because that is not an action either. 

[Stick.]

Heyo 

I see y'all already workin hard collecting them good ol' contribution points 

Couple of thoughts in no particular order:

13 hours ago, Twibanu said:

So... as far as I can tell, this item only helps elims. But if anyone can think of any other reason for it to exist, please correct me. There might be a villager that starts with this item, but it doesn't really matter. I expect the elims will want one or two of these once turn three comes around

Apart from what Kynedath said, there doesn't necessarily need to be a reason I think. It's entirely possible for the GM to have a villager to possess an item such as a smoke bomb if only to mess with our reads.

8 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

 I don't know how BR would'v decided to do the distribution (even though I know her well, I don't know if I've ever played any games she's run), and I'm not willing to make any hard bets yet. 

 

7 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I’d be curious to se BRms thoughts on why she chose whichever distribution she did after the game’s over, because I’m not even sure which team size I would’ve picked.

Forgive me if im reading too much into this but these two posts really vibe the wrong way to me. They sound way too overly unsure and something I can see elim!Striker saying. I'd love to honour your request and not lynch you C1, but just making a quick note here.  

9 hours ago, Kynedath said:

If you waited all that time to get the gun then that most likely means that you don't have any/many other items which would make you a target for the elims. Plus if a villager killed an elim then the eliminators might want revenge. So it may well put a target on your back, just not as much of a target as in other games.

I doubt it. I think the elims would rather go after players with items cuz that's basically killing two birds with one stone - you cut down the village size while also getting permanently rid of some useful assets to the village. If a player uses a gun from the black market they're not really much of a threat to the elims anymore.

[DeTess]

Hey, that's funny @BrightnessRadiant . The reason I haven't checked in untill now was because I, too had been to the cinema to watch the new Star Wars.

Anyway, A quick note on the items: I think the knife is, by far, the most useful to get. If enough villagers have one in the late game then it could shut down the elims ability to kill altogether, buying extra cycles to find and lynch them. If you have enough points, I'd strongly recommend getting one as soon as you can.

I don't think the guns is really worth focusing all that much on. A one time kill is useful, yes, but in a game this size there's a non-zero chance that things will be over before a bought gun can be used (assuming a perfect elim game, 3 elims and 1 kill+1 lynch per cycle means parity after cycle 5).

13 hours ago, Twibanu said:

• • Also, if you fire a gun, I can't think of a reason for a villager not to publicly claim that you did so? The gun is destroyed after use, so there is no particular target put on your head.

The main reason not to publicly claim is because it will paint something of a target on your head as it could reinforce a village claim. I'd personally claim in a PM to someone you trust, and hold a public claim back until it becomes necessary to deflect a lynch or similar.

edit: since a lot of people started talking about the amount of elims, I highly doubt it'll be 4. 4 elims means near parity on cycle 4 if none get lynched, and that's just too quick unless the village has a lot of items, and that's a highly volatile situation on its own that can jump in a lot of different ways. balance-wise, it makes more sense imho to go with 3 elims, and hand out very few items to the village.

Edited December 20, 2019 by DeTess

[BrightnessRadiant]

5 hours ago, Twibanu said:

Have fun! ... I thought it came out tomorrow... But whatever : )

Officially I watched it "tomorrow". I went at 12:45 AM lol. They tend to show it early the night before the official release date.

1 hour ago, DeTess said:

Hey, that's funny @BrightnessRadiant . The reason I haven't checked in untill now was because I, too had been to the cinema to watch the new Star Wars.

Haha nice! I really enjoyed it.

[CadCom]

8 hours ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

If you fulfill the requirements and put in an order than yes you will be able to order an item that can be used next cycle.

With the added clarification from Brightness, the purchased gun could potentially come into play by cycle 6 as an action, because you can get enough points by cycle 5, and grab it on cycle 5 to use on that next cycle. 

A perfect elim game would end by cycle 5 essentially, however, I think it would be more likely that the game goes until cycle 6 or 7. That means the gun could go into use at the very end of the game, swaying the odds. 

Also, I believe we are now getting close to a day in, and we still have a few who haven't shown up yet. @Sart, @Butt Venture, @Lemonelon @Elkanah, @Coda Sorry Butt, I couldn't find you, so you didn't get a real tag. We are also getting to a point where if we want a lynch, we should probably start determining who. 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by CadCom
Changed same to next in first paragraph

[StrikerEZ]

4 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Forgive me if im reading too much into this but these two posts really vibe the wrong way to me. They sound way too overly unsure and something I can see elim!Striker saying. I'd love to honour your request and not lynch you C1, but just making a quick note here.  

I mean, I feel like I tend to write posts that sound like I’m unsure most of the time, regardless of alignment. Mostly because I tend to overthink things and don’t like saying anything as if I’m absolutely sure of it in case I might be wrong. 

[Kynedath]

5 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

I doubt it. I think the elims would rather go after players with items cuz that's basically killing two birds with one stone - you cut down the village size while also getting permanently rid of some useful assets to the village. If a player uses a gun from the black market they're not really much of a threat to the elims anymore.

That's true actually, I guess I was getting a smidge of tunnel vision and thinking about the eliminators wanting to avoid bullet-proof vests since that wastes their kill for the turn. But you're right, they'd be going to reduce village resources.

1 hour ago, CadCom said:

 Also, I believe we are now getting close to a day in, and we still have a few who haven't shown up yet. @Sart, @Butt Venture, @Lemonelon @Elkanah, @Coda Sorry Butt, I couldn't find you, so you didn't get a real tag. We are also getting to a point where if we want a lynch, we should probably start determining who. 

Butt Venture is @Ookla the Journey who posted on here yesterday. However I did notice @Coda looking at this page when it first went up and I'm not seeing a post from them either.

EDIT: I actually also see Coda viewing this page right now, so they're probably writing a response as I type this.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Kynedath

[Guest Coda]

Absodel took off his bloody gloves carefully before removing his lab coat. He washed his tools carefully, since blood would ruin the blade. As he left the doctor's office, he stared at each of the other assistants. Some of them were traitors. As he left the room, he made a note of the black market. Useful. Maybe he would stop by later.

 

Sorry for not posting for a while. I have no suspicions. All the things I thought of have already been said. Guess I won't be getting any points this round. 

[DeTess]

9 minutes ago, Coda said:

Sorry for not posting for a while. I have no suspicions. All the things I thought of have already been said. Guess I won't be getting any points this round. 

You can still introduce some of your own opinions. what, for example, do you think would be the best item for the villagers to bu from the black market, and which would be best for the elims?

[Guest Coda]

Binoculars are pretty, though they help village slightly more than elim since the elims are the ones making suspicious actions. The smoke bomb would be helpful for elims, but being a one use item, it would be hard to get consistently. Strongbox seems pretty good, especially since it is so cheap. Gun seems the least useful since it is so expensive, there is only one, and it is one use. Bullet-proof vest seems really good for village, less for elims since the gun is the only village kill. 

[Kidpen]

11 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

Knives are probably gonna be pretty useful, because they basically can block anything. If the elims already got one, it’s gonna be hard for the village to get anything done if the elims know who to target. And if the elims do have one, I bet the village has at least one, if not two, already. That could either be a blessing or a curse, depending on how good at guessing alignments they stabber is. 

Sure, they're very useful, but I have trouble seeing how they can become problematic for the village. The only items that would seem to me like they would be worth blocking by the elims are the binoculars and a knife that's being used on the elims. I could be wrong, but I suspect that binoculars are too rare to really warrant too much worrying about that as long as they aren't outed, and knives could also be used effectively if we organize them well, depending on how many end up out. I think 2 elims with knives is unlikely to be a large problem.

[Elkanah]

 

Clark darted into the lit room.  His mousy hair, tossled and unkempt, did nothing to improve his appearance. His shirt was thin and patched at the elbows with bits of another shirt sewn onto the bottom to make it long enough to cover his midsection. His faded pants showed a few inches of his ankles. His mismatching shoes looked like they had been pulled from a dumpster (because they had), and he thought the look was perfect! There was a lot of power in looking scrubby. No one would look at him for more than a couple seconds before at most shaking their head and moving one. It was almost like he was invisible, which made finding and taking things that much easier. 

 He irreverently carried a small box holding his errand for the doctor in one hand. Although what the doc wanted with some random bloody shirt Clark didn’t know. Didn’t really care either. All that mattered is Clark knew how to find things and the doctor paid him pretty well when he needed something. 

To the dismay and shouts of a couple newer bodyguards, Clark walked right through the double doors into the lab and plopped the worn out hat box onto the (presently empty) operating table looking like a cat who had just caught his lunch. 

“I finds the shirt you asked for” Clark announced proudly.

“That’s fine. Leave it here. I’ve already arranged your payment through the black market. Talk to the usual man there and he’ll get you taken care of.” the doctor droned without looking up.

“Grea’. You knows where to find me when you needs somfin’ else.” With that Clark disappeared back through the doors headed for his payment.

 

Hello Everyone! 

Starting off with items, I think we have a pretty good handle on what items are important. Going back through the list, my first impression when I saw there was only one gun in the market was to think they have already been distributed. If there were three or four guns out there the elim team was probably four or maybe even five. However,

2 hours ago, CadCom said:

A perfect elim game would end by cycle 5 essentially, however, I think it would be more likely that the game goes until cycle 6 or 7. That means the gun could go into use at the very end of the game, swaying the odds. 

Given this math, that makes the game super swingy. We'd have to be pretty lucky to hit traitors in the first place and whittling down our own numbers could make the game even shorter. These items kind of feel like exchangable roles to me. So someone who starts with binoculars is like a tineye, even though that role can be traded or stolen. Someone with a smokebomb is like a smoker, the gun a serial killer, and the same for the rest. With that being the case I would guess maybe two or three binoculars, one or two guns, two or three bullet proof vests, and the knives and strongboxes are cheap enough and plentiful enough in the market that I don't know if anyone started with those. If items are that scarce, that means about eight of us started with items. With so few, I bet the traitors didn't start with anything, or maybe they got a knife or a strongbox. Even so, with up to two village SK's I'd bet the elim team is four people to mitigate a lucky shot or two and get us to turn seven where the gun on the market could decide the game. 

 

Thanks for the poke @CadCom. I'm afraid I don't really have anyone I want to lynch yet. I think Kynedath and Twibanu have been pretty helpful so I vote not them. 

Also, please everyone make sure you get your two points. Given four elims and eleven village, activity is our biggest strength. We have the opportunity to buy items at about two to one after eliminator kills, but we can easily lose that advantage. 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

Lieutenant Mauve had certainly stumbled upon a fine way to end up dead. An operation this big was bound to have leaks, especially when the organisers were so careless as to permit Enforcement agents such as himself to stroll right in. The situation wasn't yet disastrous; if he left now he could be gone by the time Enforcement inevitably showed up in greater numbers to execute everyone involved. Unfortunately, his own core would likely be part of any crackdown, given their Epic's reputation for extracting secrets through slow, successive burning. If he came back as part of his Enforcement core, there was a chance he would be recognised by one of these doomed rebels, and being outed like that would be just as fatal as remaining here to die with the others since the rest of his core didn't know he was here. He would have to ensure he stayed even further away from the action than he usually did and not let himself be seen at all.

Knives will never get full coverage because they can presumably roleblock other knives, but it still seems like the best item one can pick up, especially as there's enough knives for everybody. The two bulletproof vests can be saved for anyone who already has a knife or binoculars, as although that does increase the risk of the elims getting that protection, vests aren't super useful for the elims and they may well decide not to spend points getting them. Smoke bombs are unlikely to be a major issue as they're only one use and there presumably aren't too many binoculars in play. @BrightnessRadiant, what result is received when viewing a smoke bomb with binoculars? If it shows no action, it should be easy to tell whether a smoke bomb was used because everybody has the ability to take actions every cycle.

[Kidpen]

Geema suddenly realized something: she hadn't done enough things! To receive an adequate amount of currency, she would have to go do more things. 

Appropriately, she proceeded to have a long and interesting conversation with another dude about the origin of epics. The debate stretched the full range of information, each of them reaching every bit of obscure facts available to them. It went on for hours and hours, really digging deep into the depths of philosophy and science. By the end of the conversation, they each felt like they had enough of an understanding into the topic that they could've written a 90 page thesis on it, if there were still any colleges existing to demand so, that is.

[DeTess]

38 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Knives will never get full coverage because they can presumably roleblock other knives, but it still seems like the best item one can pick up, especially as there's enough knives for everybody.

Are you certain about that? @BrightnessRadiant

[Furamirionind]

I was thinking the smoke bomb was infinite use, with it being one use, that makes a lot more sense... And makes it a lot worse. In that case, I could totally see an elim starting with one... Generally not *super* useful though, I think.

I don't think anyone has cast a vote yet, and we have almost completed the first 24 hours of the cycle.

Striker's posts in-thread I found off-putting, and I would probably be casting my vote on him had he not PMed me. In our PM, he sounded pretty pure, though It's only C1. 
DeTess seems like herself. I'm not planning on voting on her this cycle.

3 hours ago, CadCom said:

A perfect elim game would end by cycle 5 essentially, however, I think it would be more likely that the game goes until cycle 6 or 7. That means the gun could go into use at the very end of the game, swaying the odds. 

I always like seeing people analyzing potential game length and scenarios, and CadCom does good analysis. CadCom's head feels like it is in the right place.

Quick disclaimer, I'm going pretty much off gut for probably the first half of this game or so. I'm just too busy to do otherwise.

Elkanah - Haven't played with them before. seems to have a village mindset. That's all.

And those are my thoughts on players for the moment.