Mid-Range Game 39: For Science

[Kynedath]

1 hour ago, CadCom said:

I don't really agree with the last argument about the post. To me it seems like Elandera doesn't want us to fall into a rut that Elims will be able to use to their advantage in current or future games. I haven't had as much time to really look into this game the last couple days between calls at work, but I'll try to make time later on today to do a more in depth analysis.  

I can't really say anything about what's happened in the last few games, but I do know that when Devotary gained momentum with no opposition, people got wary. When people started to get wary of the lynch, Elandera posts this and people started to get less wary. That could be what you're saying, but it could also be an attempt from an eliminator to keep the village looking at devotary.

And I still feel like their posts in the first cycle indicate that they were trying to distance themselves from Start and not seem like they were defending them while simultaneously not voting for them to keep them out of trouble. I feel pretty confident about this vote.

[Elandera]

CadCom is correct in the interpretation. If we consistently say "elims will defend their teammates," then elims can successfully hide by not defending and allowing villagers to speak up instead. That will also turn into suspicion on those villagers who do defend someone who flips elim, further extending the goal of killing villagers. We also have to remember that villagers can get allies and could have people defending them as well. I just don't think defense of someone is a good metric for determining if that someone is an elim.

In regards to the suspicion on me, I can see where it's coming from, but it's wrong. I was just as hesitant about the other two lynches that day, but didn't have time to really dig into who I did consider suspicious. As for his interactions toward me, it was likely intentional to create this kind of suspicion. Sart is a good player, and I believe his distancing efforts would not be so obvious.

[Lemonelon]

Okay, so my most suspicious person was Twibanu, and him flipping village has really thrown me. My vote will go to Striker now. I find him more suspicious than Elandera, but they are next on my list. As is Joe. No one else is standing out as suspicious to me. Yet.

[Elandera]

I've been re-reading the thread, and found this:

Quote

Shoot I totally forgot to add the knife in the OoA list. The knife does block any action.

Emphasis mine.

On 12/25/2019 at 7:48 PM, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Something I just noticed after rereading CadCom's claim that his roleblock was prevented by theft, we've gotten confirmation that the knife blocks any action, which should include stealing. @BrightnessRadiant, does that mean stealing someone's knife would not prevent a roleblock from going through, regardless of what time the two actions were sent in?

Is there any way you can answer this question, @BrightnessRadiant? @CadCom, how about you? Any idea what happened here?

Unfortunately, my head is hurting a bit to much to really focus well on analysis. Both CadCom and Striker seem more suspicious than most others. CadCom from the uncertainty of his C2 action (though C1 can be accounted for with the theft from Lemonelon, barring them being teammates), and a few ambivalent posts about the lynches. And Striker still based on his interactions with Sart and the same kind of possibly feigned uncertainty about lynches. 

Striker, until we get an answer about CadCom.

[CadCom]

Yeah. I'm honestly not sure why my action failed, but it did. And my knife was stolen. This last cycle I was roleblocked, which, if the person who did it claims, they could prove the validity of my claim. It also proves again that I didn't make a kill. I'll try to make an additional comment later. 

 

 

[StrikerEZ]

So, I think I’m with Kynedath on this one. I really don’t like how Elandera made it seem like anyone who proposed the idea of someone who wasn’t getting support not being an elim was an elim themselves. (I hope that made sense grammatically...)

I don’t like how it seems like all the talkative players are getting lynched or killed. I feel like that might say something about who the elims are, but I’m too tired to figure out how.

[Elandera]

44 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

So, I think I’m with Kynedath on this one. I really don’t like how Elandera made it seem like anyone who proposed the idea of someone who wasn’t getting support not being an elim was an elim themselves. (I hope that made sense grammatically...)

I understand grammatically what you're saying, but what? It was never my intention to suggest that the only people who defend players would be elims. My point is that defense of someone is not a good argument for or against a lynch. Villagers are just as likely to have someone defend them as elims. Villagers are just as likely to defend others as elims.

My concern is that this is becoming a very, very common argument that is bound to be used in a sweep of reverse psychology. Perhaps this is more a discussion for the meta thread, but I felt that everyone hesitant of Devotary's lynch was doing so on the basis of a lack of defense, not necessarily for other reasons they may have been villager. I know now that I was wrong, but my reasoning still stands where it was and I will not back down from that. My post was not to dissuade any counter argument, but to dissuade that counter argument, as I still feel it is baseless. 

[Elkanah]

Clark sat back contentedly. It had been a while since he'd felt this full. This job wasn't the cleanest. He'd gone back to his alleyway many times covered in blood and he didn't care to know what else, but the doc always came through on his promises of food. He looked down at his makeshift plate filled with a collection of meat and flat bread vaguely resembling street tacos. "I better save the rest of this" he thought. The next job was going to be a doozy and it might be a while before he could find cooked meat again. 

He rubbed his hands on his shirt, and set the plate in a hole in one of the walls left there by some epic long gone. There was work to be done. He messed up his hair a little more and rubbed a little dirt on his cheeks. Extra camouflage was always a good idea. The epics wouldn't believe such a scrubby boy could cause them harm and no one else would see him come or go.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still haven't gone back to look over CadCom's posts and it's getting late. I'm going to hold on to my vote for now, but I think both Striker and Elandera are very suspicious for the same reasons. I think we stand to gain information whichever of them is eliminated. I'll be back on before the end of the cycle to vote.

Vote Tally:

Striker: Lemonelon, Elandera

Elandera: Kynedath, Striker

I will say this much: if Elandera is bad I doubt Striker is. If they were both bad, it would make more sense to start a third lynch instead of solidifying the two of them as lynch targets. Aand if I go any further down that rabbit hole, I'll end up in a host I IKYK's and it's too late at night for that. 

[StrikerEZ]

1 minute ago, Elandera said:

I understand grammatically what you're saying, but what? It was never my intention to suggest that the only people who defend players would be elims. My point is that defense of someone is not a good argument for or against a lynch. Villagers are just as likely to have someone defend them as elims. Villagers are just as likely to defend others as elims.

My concern is that this is becoming a very, very common argument that is bound to be used in a sweep of reverse psychology. Perhaps this is more a discussion for the meta thread, but I felt that everyone hesitant of Devotary's lynch was doing so on the basis of a lack of defense, not necessarily for other reasons they may have been villager. I know now that I was wrong, but my reasoning still stands where it was and I will not back down from that. My post was not to dissuade any counter argument, but to dissuade that counter argument, as I still feel it is baseless. 

Okay I think we’re talking around each other at this point. Lemme see if I can make my tired brain make this make sense. 

I wasn’t trying to say that you said anyone who defended any other player was an elim. I was trying to say that I felt like you were saying that anyone who felt uneasy about a lynch because there was little to no defense against the lynch is probably an elim. I guess I must’ve misremembered the post where you first pointed this out, because it felt a lot more...attacking isn’t the right word, but I can’t think of a better one.

Anyway, I still think I’m gonna leave my vote on you because the vibe from your posts just feels off sometimes. Though if no one seems like they’re gonna break the tie, I’d rather have a lynch than no lynch, so I’ll remove my vote.

[Elandera]

1 minute ago, StrikerEZ said:

Okay I think we’re talking around each other at this point. Lemme see if I can make my tired brain make this make sense. 

I wasn’t trying to say that you said anyone who defended any other player was an elim. I was trying to say that I felt like you were saying that anyone who felt uneasy about a lynch because there was little to no defense against the lynch is probably an elim. I guess I must’ve misremembered the post where you first pointed this out, because it felt a lot more...attacking isn’t the right word, but I can’t think of a better one.

Anyway, I still think I’m gonna leave my vote on you because the vibe from your posts just feels off sometimes. Though if no one seems like they’re gonna break the tie, I’d rather have a lynch than no lynch, so I’ll remove my vote.

That makes sense. The tone of my post was probably more aggressive than intended. It really was more a statement on the current meta than anything regarding Devotary's lynch, though poorly phrased.

I'm really starting to wonder if all the vocal ones are villagers, and the elims are just sitting back, content to let us chase our tails. 

Elkanah's last post is giving me a bad guy read. In some of my reading of the thread, they've been taking that same kind of stance a lot.

[StrikerEZ]

8 minutes ago, Elandera said:

That makes sense. The tone of my post was probably more aggressive than intended. It really was more a statement on the current meta than anything regarding Devotary's lynch, though poorly phrased.

That’s fair. I hope you understand why I’m keeping my vote on you for now though. I wanna give myself some chance of surviving.

8 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I'm really starting to wonder if all the vocal ones are villagers, and the elims are just sitting back, content to let us chase our tails. 

It would make sense, considering how off everyone’s reads have been all game.

11 minutes ago, Elandera said:

Elkanah's last post is giving me a bad guy read. In some of my reading of the thread, they've been taking that same kind of stance a lot.

I’m not sure I remember getting that same feeling in their past posts, but this latest one does feel a little odd. 

[Elandera]

I'm really starting to doubt myself here. Striker Elkanah. I'll try to put together some more clear thoughts as to why within the next few hours. 

[StrikerEZ]

14 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I'm really starting to doubt myself here. Striker Elkanah. I'll try to put together some more clear thoughts as to why within the next few hours. 

I’m not as suspicious of Elkanah, but I think that pursuing a lynch on either one of us probably isn’t the best idea. Elandera

[Kynedath]

Im not thrilled with the relatively small amount of discussion going on at this point, but I think I'm going to be sticking with my current vote. I'm basing it off of behavior I saw in cycle 1 when Elandera was discussing Sart. I think that's the most concrete evidence I have and other reads are going to be softer since they all rely on the alignment of other players that I can't know. I know that Sart was an elim, and I know that Elandera was acting suspicious when it came to their posts regarding Sart.

Gah, it seems like I'm just saying the same things, but that's really all I have and I want to stay relatively active if I can. Sorry guys, I don't have much else.

[+Ed Venture]

Charley lunged forward, catching the dumb kid before he could get himself killed. Waiting until he took a few steps back into the darkness he whispered, “You don’t go out there. You’re a kid, they’re killers. Y’hear?” This kid was more trouble than was worth it...but Charley felt like he needed to help him. Not that he even knew the kids name. “So, kid. If I wanted to stop calling you kid, what would I call you.” He smirked, “don’t even need to be your real name if you’re that kind of person. I’m Charley.” Stretching forward his hand he continued, “And I’m keeping you alive.

Heyo. I’m here, throwing a vote over at Joe. I’m subscribing to the theory that the elims are in hiding. Plus I would like to get some opinions from him about Devotionary flipping village.

[Elkanah]

8 hours ago, Elandera said:

I'm really starting to doubt myself here. Striker Elkanah. I'll try to put together some more clear thoughts as to why within the next few hours. 

I guess that's fair enough, let me know when you have something I can defend against.

9 hours ago, Elandera said:

I'm really starting to wonder if all the vocal ones are villagers, and the elims are just sitting back, content to let us chase our tails. 

You know, I think you have a point. Joe any thoughts?

Edit: ninja'd by Venture with a better version of my question answer that one. @A Joe in the Bush

Edited December 28, 2019 by Elkanah

[CadCom]

I dont like how Elandera and striker just tried to clear each other. I'd really like to hear from them as to why they did that. But for the moment I'll cast my vote on elandera because I feel less comfortable with their defenses than I did with Strikers defenses. I'll try to get back on later to hopefully see everyone's opinions, and hopefully make a bit more informed of a vote.

-------

Character didnt know who grabbed him, If it was the same guy who led him out of the tunnels or not. But he wasnt about to find out. The man had one arm around his mouth and another around his his chest.

Without showing signs of additional struggle, character bit the man's arm. Promptly he removed it from his mouth.

Character pretended pain in his voice, and rasped "you're hurting my tummy."

The man loosened his grip then returned a hand to his mouth. 

Perfect, Character thought. After a few more seconds, charactcharat the hand again, while at the same time fighting the man's arm off his torso. 8 year olds were underestimated. He kicked one leg up to do one of those buttkicker exercises they did in gym class. 

The man cringed as his hands moved to protect his jewels as if a secondary kick was coming. 

At that moment, Character screamed and began running with all his might to the exit. If his kidnapper was following, hopefully the screaming would get people outside to hear him and come rescue him. 

As he turned the corner, he saw where the light was shining in from a large grate with bars going across it. He also heard the man start coming after him. If he could just get to the grate!

After what felt like a whole minute, but was probably only about 5 seconds, character reached the grate. A strong man on the other side grabbed onto character from the outside, while his kidnapper grapped onto him from within. Character had never thought he would have felt like a tug of war rope before. 

-ninjad by venture and elkanah I left my original RP because I liked it, though it no longer applies. 

This is the real RP

"Just call me Character" Character said, knowing that Charlie wouldn't believe it's his actual name. Then he took Charlie's hand and shook it briefly before letting go. 

"Look I got lost from my parents in the market. I'm just trying to get back to them. 

"I know it's dangerous. My parents told me not to trust anybody. I only followed you because I had no choice you scared ms and I forgot how I got in here. If you could just help me back to the market please"

----

I actually support the Joe lynch for the reason I described last cycle, so I'll back that lynch one more time, hoping either this time or next we catch an elim. elanderajoe

 

 

 

[BrightnessRadiant]

17 hours ago, Elandera said:

I've been re-reading the thread, and found this:

Emphasis mine.

Is there any way you can answer this question, @BrightnessRadiant? @CadCom, how about you? Any idea what happened?

A knife should roleblock before stealing. An error was made.

[Kidpen]

I dislike the Elandera lynch, largely because I used similar internal logic myself. Not that that lynch is even going forward at this point, but worth saying.

Striker is pretty meh to me. I could really go either way on them.

I like the idea of lynching people under the radar, but also I think Joe might not show up at all this cycle, in which case he dies anyways. For those reasons I'm gonna vote on Striker.

[Lemonelon]

Okay, Striker I'll change my vote to Joe. Joe seemed to be the main instigator for the list of actions C1 which seemed to just help the elims find the binoculars. I thought having a list of actions was a really great idea when it first appeared, but now I think it was done for nefarious reasons. Which Joe started.

@A Joe in the Bush Any thoughts on this?

[A Joe in the Bush]

Unfortunately, i have very little thoughts and even less defense for my actions.

1 hour ago, Butt Ad Venture said:

Heyo. I’m here, throwing a vote over at Joe. I’m subscribing to the theory that the elims are in hiding. Plus I would like to get some opinions from him about Devotionary flipping village.

I figured last cycle that they were a villager from the lack of defense on them. I kept my vote on them because i didn't want all the information from that cycle to.go.to.waste. 

15 minutes ago, Lemonelon said:

Okay, Striker I'll change my vote to Joe. Joe seemed to be the main instigator for the list of actions C1 which seemed to just help the elims find the binoculars. I thought having a list of actions was a really great idea when it first appeared, but now I think it was done for nefarious reasons. Which Joe started.

@A Joe in the Bush Any thoughts on this?

I was trying to see if we could confirm alibis enough to find whoever made the kill. I can see how that helped the elims, but i hadn't really thought about that at the time.

As for my actual thoughts, i think StrikerEZ is an elim. That's a serious shift from my previous stance, but it does add up. It feels like he's trying to control and drive all the discussion, and is taking out other players who are stopping him from doing so.

Unfortunately, i don't have any other way to help the village. I've never had a single item this game, and i don't have any other suspicions. If i survive this lynch, i'll let the inactivity filter kill me tomorrow to save you all the trouble.

[StrikerEZ]

Nathan was alone, cleaning his knife to distract himself from the thoughts. They ate away at his mind, telling him that there was no hope, that they wouldn’t be able to find the rest of the traitors in time. Every shadow in the room became a murderer, just waiting to kill him. One of them appeared to be holding Mei. His heart began to pound, and he reached out-

Nathan heard a loud commotion coming from one of the grates in the compound, and ran towards it. If someone was in trouble, he wanted to be able to help them. They had already lost so many people, and Nathan didn’t need to be even more alone. 

When he arrived, he saw what appeared to be a little kid trying to get away from someone. “Hey, kid, is this guy bothering you?”

He got his knife ready, in case he needed to protect the kid.

~

Okay, lemme do a quick vote count real quick.

(1) Elandera: Kynedath, Striker, CadCom,
(2) Striker: Lemon, Elandera, Kidpen, Joe,
(0) Elkanah: Elandera,
(4) Joe: Venture, Elkanah, CadCom, Lemon

Well, I didn't know that ctrl+enter posts things. Let me finish the vote count.

I don't wanna keep editing things, so someone else post.

Edited December 28, 2019 by StrikerEZ

[Elandera]

My vote should still be on Elkanah. This last minute pile on Joe is interesting. Kind of makes me concerned we're about to get into another village lynch.

[StrikerEZ]

1 minute ago, Elandera said:

My vote should still be on Elkanah. This last minute pile on Joe is interesting. Kind of makes me concerned we're about to get into another village lynch.

Oh, whoops, my bad. I must've got mixed up somewhere with all of these last minute votes. I'm also really concerned with all of these votes on Joe. My PMs with him always felt sincere. It wasn't really even his fault that the list happened, I'm the one who compiled everything. I'm not a fan of this lynch at all, but we can't really beat it at this point. 

[BrightnessRadiant]

Cycle is closed.