Ba-Ado-Mishram

[Zefandrius]

Quote

Ba-Ado-Mishram somehow connected with the parsh people like odium once did. She provides voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her.

From drawer 30-20

4th Emerald

As far as we know she is still imprisoned? There is very few references to her in SA. Is she still imprisoned? Or escaped?

Or have I missed something?

[KandraAllomancer]

Still imprisoned, I guess.

Gavilar's black spheres are a popular candidate - we know he was investigating the cause of the slaveform and he seemed to have been on the right track

[Zefandrius]

13 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

Still imprisoned, I guess.

Gavilar's black spheres are a popular candidate - we know he was investigating the cause of the slaveform and he seemed to have been on the right track

In the beginning of OB the midnight mother had once been imprisoned. If she could escape, or be released, then why wouldn't the smartest of the unmade not figure out how to get out?

[Weltall]

15 minutes ago, Zefandrius said:

In the beginning of OB the midnight mother had once been imprisoned. If she could escape, or be released, then why wouldn't the smartest of the unmade not figure out how to get out?

We don't know the circumstances surrounding Re-Shepir's apparent imprisonment to be able to say whether it was done in the same manner proposed for Ba-Ado-Mishram and seen with Nergaoul. Since the Gem Archive was recorded just before the plan was enacted and it described imprisoning BAM as making use of the theory that an Unmade could be captured like an ordinary spren (see here) it sounds like whatever was done to Re-Shephir was different, otherwise it wouldn't be a theoretical possibility but a tested fact. It's possible that the imprisonment used an unrelated method but another possibility that seems likely is that Re-Shephir was imprisoned in an imperfect gem which sufficed for a time and gave the Radiants the idea that a perfect gemstone would contain an Unmade indefinitely.

[RShara]

20 minutes ago, Zefandrius said:

In the beginning of OB the midnight mother had once been imprisoned. If she could escape, or be released, then why wouldn't the smartest of the unmade not figure out how to get out?

Depends on the prison, the skill level of the imprisoner, the terms of the imprisonment, etc etc etc.

[Zefandrius]

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Nameless said:

We don't know the circumstances surrounding Re-Shepir's apparent imprisonment to be able to say whether it was done in the same manner proposed for Ba-Ado-Mishram and seen with Nergaoul. Since the Gem Archive was recorded just before the plan was enacted and it described imprisoning BAM as making use of the theory that an Unmade could be captured like an ordinary spren (see here) it sounds like whatever was done to Re-Shephir was different, otherwise it wouldn't be a theoretical possibility but a tested fact. It's possible that the imprisonment used an unrelated method but another possibility that seems likely is that Re-Shephir was imprisoned in an imperfect gem which sufficed for a time and gave the Radiants the idea that a perfect gemstone would contain an Unmade indefinitely.

That does make sense. But, if she is still imprisoned then where is the prison? Surely such a powerful unmade they wouldn't have just left her anywhere that someone could find it. Or maybe generations of a single family have protected it for 4 millennia. If she had gotten loose surely she would have freed the parsh from slavery to rebel long ago.

[KandraAllomancer]

18 minutes ago, Zefandrius said:

That does make sense. But, if she is still imprisoned then where is the prison? Surely such a powerful unmade they wouldn't have just left her anywhere that someone could find it. Or maybe generations of a single family have protected it for 4 millennia. If she had gotten loose surely she would have freed the parsh from slavery to rebel long ago.

We know that a gemstone containing a spren can be split into parts without releasing the spren - that's how spanreeds work. Maybe that's how you make sure that an Unmade doesn't escape (assuming you can't release them without all/most fragments)?

[Zefandrius]

24 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

We know that a gemstone containing a spren can be split into parts without releasing the spren - that's how spanreeds work. Maybe that's how you make sure that an Unmade doesn't escape (assuming you can't release them without all/most fragments)?

Perhaps she is trapped in the gem that glowed black that Gavilar gave to Szeth? Aesudan said that Gavilar attempted to bond an unmade but was unsuccessful. If he attempted to bond similar to how Aesudan bonded to Yelig-nar.

[Weltall]

4 minutes ago, Zefandrius said:

That does make sense. But, if she is still imprisoned then where is the prison? Surely such a powerful unmade they wouldn't have just left her anywhere that someone could find it.

It's extremely likely that one of Gavilar's spheres is this prison but we have no idea how he got his hands on those things at present. One assumes that the Radiants who imprisoned BAM put the gemstone somewhere they thought it would be safe. Aimia wouldn't necessarily be a bad bet, except that as far as we know its secrets are still being kept. It's not hard to imagine other places on Roshar where you could hide a small object and be fairly certain it won't be stumbled upon, especially if you've got surgebinders who can get at places not easily accessible by ordinary people.

[Zefandrius]

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Nameless said:

It's extremely likely that one of Gavilar's spheres is this prison but we have no idea how he got his hands on those things at present. One assumes that the Radiants who imprisoned BAM put the gemstone somewhere they thought it would be safe. Aimia wouldn't necessarily be a bad bet, except that as far as we know its secrets are still being kept. It's not hard to imagine other places on Roshar where you could hide a small object and be fairly certain it won't be stumbled upon, especially if you've got surgebinders who can get at places not easily accessible by ordinary people.

I forgot about Aimia. Could explain why it is so well guarded. Though I dont remember it being mentioned when the destruction of Aimia occured. Perhaps it occured when the strikeforce attempted to imprison her and there was a crazy battle. Though I suspect it had something to do with the soulcasters. But, that would be an interesting plot thread.

[+Invocation]

24 minutes ago, Zefandrius said:

I forgot about Aimia. Could explain why it is so well guarded. Though I dont remember it being mentioned when the destruction of Aimia occured. Perhaps it occured when the strikeforce attempted to imprison her and there was a crazy battle. Though I suspect it had something to do with the soulcasters. But, that would be an interesting plot thread.

We know that there was supposedly another Unmade involved: Dai-gonarthis. Perhaps an attempted rescue of BAM's prison.

[Zefandrius]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Quill said:

We know that there was supposedly another Unmade involved: Dai-gonarthis. Perhaps an attempted rescue of BAM's prison.

Very possible! Though not sure what Dai-gonarthis' abilities are. Possible that they imprisoned that one too. Leaving it alongside BAM.

[Gilphon]

For the record, I don't think that Gavilar's black spheres contained BAM, or indeed any of the Unmade. I think they just contained Voidspren. More specifically, I think the one he gave to Eshonai contained Ulim, thus explaining how Ulim had been managing talking to Venli for years before the rest of the Voidspren got off Braize. 

I feel like Gavilar would've treated a sphere containing of the Unmade a bit more casually than handing it off to a random translator, y'know? And, heck, given how he was talking, he might've just released BAM himself if he had the chance. 

As for where BAM's prison is- it was mentioned that a Bank in Celebrant has some perfect gems, so that seems like a possibility.

[Zefandrius]

54 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

For the record, I don't think that Gavilar's black spheres contained BAM, or indeed any of the Unmade. I think they just contained Voidspren. More specifically, I think the one he gave to Eshonai contained Ulim, thus explaining how Ulim had been managing talking to Venli for years before the rest of the Voidspren got off Braize. 

I feel like Gavilar would've treated a sphere containing of the Unmade a bit more casually than handing it off to a random translator, y'know? And, heck, given how he was talking, he might've just released BAM himself if he had the chance. 

As for where BAM's prison is- it was mentioned that a Bank in Celebrant has some perfect gems, so that seems like a possibility.

It is an interesting theory. Though voidspren are just lesser spren of odium and can be trapped in imperfect gems. No reason to have them in such a rare valuable gem. He did say he didnt want them to get it. He must have known that Szeth's people revered last requests. This is why I believe it held an unmade or it could be a perfect enough gem to capture odium. Gavilar did tell Eshonai that there were gems powerful enough to capture a god. Though I am not sure if he meant gods as in: honour, odium, and cultivation. He could have meant souls of the fused, the singer gods.

[Gilphon]

I mean, there's not really any mention of those spheres being perfect gems, and I kinda feel like we would've seen some sign of it by now if they were. Like Navani thinking 'I wonder why he got so obsessed with with hunting down the most valuable gems in the world?' or something like that. 

Which is another reason I don't think they contained any Unmade. Well, he might've had Yelig-nar, since that one voluntarily hangs out in non-perfect gems and Aesudan got hold of it in Kholinar somehow, but I doubt he had any of the others. 

[Zefandrius]

35 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

I mean, there's not really any mention of those spheres being perfect gems, and I kinda feel like we would've seen some sign of it by now if they were. Like Navani thinking 'I wonder why he got so obsessed with with hunting down the most valuable gems in the world?' or something like that. 

Which is another reason I don't think they contained any Unmade. Well, he might've had Yelig-nar, since that one voluntarily hangs out in non-perfect gems and Aesudan got hold of it in Kholinar somehow, but I doubt he had any of the others. 

Well, we do know that he tried to bond with an unmade. Aesudan said as much. I dont think it was Yelig-nar or else why would she not say that he tried to bond to the same one. Instead she just says he tried to bond one and failed but that she had in fact bonded one. I still think the black gem was significant somehow otherwise it wouldn't have been added. From my experience in all books by BS he doesn't add insignificant details. They all have a purpose. Storms he has admitted to reading his own books multiple times while writing the sequels to make sure he doesn't forget plot threads. It may not have had an unmade in it. It's just a theory, but there is definitely something significant about it that will be teased out later.