9 posts in this topic

How does the Spiritual Realm store sDNA or the Spiritweb?

I have a theory regarding that which also connects to bronze Allomancy and the Rhythms: ripples. Matter, energy and Investiture are the trifecta constituents of the Cosmere. We know that it shares some of its characteristics with its mundane counterparts, like states of matter: solid, liquid and gas and also plasma (the Dor) so it can be assumed that it may also ripple or vibrate like matter and energy, going by the Quantum Field Theory. These rippling may cause Investiture to vibrate at certain frequencies which may be what bronze Allomancy and the Singers can hear to a certain degree. These ripple patterns might be how data is recorded in the Spiritual Realm to form Spiritwebs. This also meshes with the fact that a person's Spiritual aspect lingers on in the Spiritual Realm after their death for a while, till the ripple pattern fizzles out.

Thoughts?

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My current mental image is something along the lines of a frequency based Turing Machine computer made entirely out of Investiture harp-strings (ie Connections).  Also that the Spiritual Realm seems to be a description of the inside of a Singularity.  Dont know if that's helpful to you.

54 minutes ago, Honorless said:

How does the Spiritual Realm store sDNA or the Spiritweb?

I have a theory regarding that which also connects to bronze Allomancy and the Rhythms: ripples. Matter, energy and Investiture are the trifecta constituents of the Cosmere. We know that it shares some of its characteristics with its mundane counterparts, like states of matter: solid, liquid and gas and also plasma (the Dor) so it can be assumed that it may also ripple or vibrate like matter and energy, going by the Quantum Field Theory. These rippling may cause Investiture to vibrate at certain frequencies which may be what bronze Allomancy and the Singers can hear to a certain degree. These ripple patterns might be how data is recorded in the Spiritual Realm to form Spiritwebs. This also meshes with the fact that a person's Spiritual aspect lingers on in the Spiritual Realm after their death for a while, till the ripple pattern fizzles out.

Thoughts?

For what it's worth, that appears to only be the case when it's getting manifest in a pure form in the Physical realm, but given the trans-temporal nature of the Spiritual realm I strongly doubt that those sorts of states are going to be present in the Spiritual Realm itself.  

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38 minutes ago, Ookla the Ingeniator said:

My current mental image is something along the lines of a frequency based Turing Machine computer made entirely out of Investiture harp-strings (ie Connections).  Also that the Spiritual Realm seems to be a description of the inside of a Singularity.  Dont know if that's helpful to you.

A singularity you say...

I wonder if the Cosmere runs on the Holographic Principle, somehow. THAT would be freakin' cool.

the EXTREMELY OVERSIMPLIFIED explanation of the Holographic Principle: You only need the surface area of a volume to encode the information about everything inside that volume. This solves some of the issues with black holes (Singularities) deleting the information they absorb through the event horizon (the information becomes smeared on the horizon and can be extracted by random chance from Hawking Radiation, freeing the Information on the horizon via the particles released). However, this also paints the stunning realization that the ENTIRE UNIVERSE could work in the same way, due to the fact that, if for example a person were to fall into a black hole, they would not perceive themselves as smearing out into a 2d surface on the event horizon, even if their information does so. They would continue to experience 3d space until they were torn apart by the gravitational weirdness of the singularity within. Thus, we could all actually be smeared across a horizon at the edge of the universe (which, by the way, doesn't need to be a finite distance away, physics is weird), and our experience of 3 dimensions is due to scale (or Weyl) Invariance, where things on that 2d plane that are smaller or larger tend to interact more weakly. A pseudo axis of Depth. Therefore, we perceive reality as having 3 spacial dimensions.

I almost certainly missed something or got a tiny detail wrong in this VAST oversimplification, so feel free to study this stuff yourself (PBS Spacetime on Youtube has a GREAT series explaining the Holographic Principle in full, where I learned it from).

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1 hour ago, Honorless said:

How does the Spiritual Realm store sDNA or the Spiritweb?

I have a theory regarding that which also connects to bronze Allomancy and the Rhythms: ripples. Matter, energy and Investiture are the trifecta constituents of the Cosmere. We know that it shares some of its characteristics with its mundane counterparts, like states of matter: solid, liquid and gas and also plasma (the Dor) so it can be assumed that it may also ripple or vibrate like matter and energy, going by the Quantum Field Theory. These rippling may cause Investiture to vibrate at certain frequencies which may be what bronze Allomancy and the Singers can hear to a certain degree. These ripple patterns might be how data is recorded in the Spiritual Realm to form Spiritwebs. This also meshes with the fact that a person's Spiritual aspect lingers on in the Spiritual Realm after their death for a while, till the ripple pattern fizzles out.

Thoughts?

Oooh...

I think it is stored in the different 'flavors' of investiture and different types of connection, like all matter is made of protons, nuetrons, and electrons sort of thing. I do like the ripples, although I think they are for different reasons which would take a long time to explain and probably be an overly large post. If you want to hear it, I'll write it up, but it might take a while. I was planning on doing a thread for it sometime in the next few weeks.

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50 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I wonder if the Cosmere runs on the Holographic Principle, somehow. THAT would be freakin' cool.

Cognitive Realm is already a flattened version of the Physical Realm, so I think there may be something to it:

Quote

Questioner 1

You said that moving people like that [Cognitive Shadows] or spren off-world, from Roshar is difficult.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner 1

What about physically, say the Ones Above visit them, and they fly away?

Brandon Sanderson

So one of the things you'll have to be asking questions and theorizing on is what happens if you try to carry a spren around the planet. What happens to their Cognitive sense, right? So you're on Roshar, right? So on the Physical Realm what would happen-- Because on Shadesmar, you have a flattened version. So there are questions for you to be theorizing implicit in that.  And one of them is, what happens, you cross a threshold circling the globe, your spren, what happens to them? Because-- Okay? This relates to the question you’re asking.

Questioner 2

Wait wait, you have a three dimensional plain coexisting with a two dimensional plain?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, two dimensional is the wrong term, but basically...

Questioner 3

Can you specify the mathematically projection used to create this? *laughter*

Brandon Sanderson

We'll try to give it to you eventually, but this is the sort of stuff that I do that Peter's like "Oh man..." *laughter* "Alright give me the math Peter." "Ahhh what do you mean? I'm not a mathematician." "Eh, y'know. You're close." It is very convenient to have a physicist and a mathematician in my writing group.

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

 

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Huh, a Singularity is a good way of thinking about it. If time and space are one in the Spiritual Realm yet it allows discrete identities to exist, it just doesn't sit right with me. Hence this theory. It also fits with my seeing Connection as more of a property of the Spiritual Realm than a separate aspect. If time and distance are irrelevant then everything is one in the Spiritual. As for the other Spiritual aspects from the Feruchemical table: Investiture is what the two non-mundane Realms are made of and Fortune is mathematical, the effect of a Spiritually perfect self thinking and seeing all possible Connections.

It allows for sDNA to allow delineate an individual's Investiture. It also fits with the idea of Resonances, as overlapping ripples or frequencies.

Edited by Honorless
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I'll stand by the stance that Spiritual functions like code. Time and space are irrelevant there in practice, but it all exists as information. 

Investiture is the medium on which all information is stored. Connection is the main method by which information is written. Identity sets the boundaries of what information belongs to what object/entity. Fortune is a means of viewing potential information. 

All of existence, both what has, could have, and may happen exist as information, and what actually exists is determined by how the code has played out. 

The temporal and spacial independent nature, which still allows for designation of distinct objects makes perfect sense in an informational existence. 

The Spiritual is the source code of reality. 

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The idea of the theory is that it sounds more... natural. And really in a way everything is a code, right down to the atoms. The theory does also propose a code, with a method of coding.

All Investiture is the same, having a pure form. It is 'flavoured' into different Intents and access to itself to potential users via frequency.

Edited by Honorless
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This connects well with my personal idea bout how A-Bronze and Copper works, relating to the ripples. Essentially A-Bronze reads those ripples, allowing you to feel them and A-Copper actually creates an inverse ripple to prevent others from feeling the ripples yet not modifying the ripples themselves.

This also works well with Hemalurgic spikes, as the spike may create different ripples in your own spiritweb to give you those aspects, yet messing with your other ripples making it less stable, creating the cracks that are used to peer into and sometimes take control of spiked individuals.

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