5 posts in this topic

So, a lot of Investiture systems allow one to use bones. How would these magics overlap?

I assume a Kandra can probably still use a lifeless body but what about Kalad's Phantoms? Of course they wouldn't be able to recreate the features from a skeleton but can the statues be used in a similar manner as a True Body despite the fact that they don't have actual joints and were probably only capable of movement via Awakening?

How would a Kandra interact with Dakhor bones? or the bones of a Skeletal of a Bloodsealer if they tried to swallow it while it was still under a Dzhamarian's control? What would a Dzhamarian be able to accomplish with a Dakhor monk's bones? The Investiture overlap and the region lock of Selish magics would make it very difficult to work

Edited by Honorless
originally said Kaladin's Phantoms...
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2 hours ago, Honorless said:

How would a Kandra interact with Dakhor bones? or the bones of a Skeletal of a Bloodsealer if they tried to swallow it while it was still under a Dzhamarian's control?

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Questioner

If a kandra where to get the bones of a Dakhor monk, would they get the Dakhor monk's abilities?

 

Brandon Sanderson

If a kandra got a hold of the bones of a Dahkor monk, yeah, would they get the abilities… It would take more than just the bones, but that would be a big part of it.

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2/#e152

I guess, as it generally seems to be a thing with Selish magic - a kandra would also need a Connection to Fjorden. But after getting this to work (and it's not impossible) they should gain the abilities those bones granted. This one is quite simple. 

But interacting with a Skeletal is probably more difficult, as the they run on Investiture and that would make things much complicated, I guess. 

Actually, I believe a similar case would occur with Lifeless, as they also have some internal Investiture that would make any interference much more difficult or at least complicated. I'm not sure whether Kalad's Phantoms work exactly the same as Lifeless, though I guess they work on the same base so it shouldn't be relevantly different. 

Another WoB that might be relevant (sorry for the second quote box, I'm on the mobile so there is no way to delete it).

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Bluebar

How does [Bloodsealing] actually work with [the skeletals]? Does it trap something inside the bones like a Command?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it works very similar to making Lifeless. Slight variations, but you are basically animating the bones by using Investiture that doesn't actually belong to them and tricking them into thinking that it does for a little bit of time and making it think it's alive again. And the fact that it's bones is really important for that, for Bloodsealing. But it's working in a similar way. The distinction is that with Lifeless you are actually using part of their own soul, right? And with Bloodsealing you're not.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)
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3 hours ago, Honorless said:

So, a lot of Investiture systems allow one to use bones. How would these magics overlap?

I assume a Kandra can probably still use a lifeless body but what about Kalad's Phantoms? Of course they wouldn't be able to recreate the features from a skeleton but can the statues be used in a similar manner as a True Body despite the fact that they don't have actual joints and were probably only capable of movement via Awakening?

How would a Kandra interact with Dakhor bones? or the bones of a Skeletal of a Bloodsealer if they tried to swallow it while it was still under a Dzhamarian's control? What would a Dzhamarian be able to accomplish with a Dakhor monk's bones? The Investiture overlap and the region lock of Selish magics would make it very difficult to work

A Kandra can use anything as it's "skeleton" and many prefer manufactured ones of metal or crystal.  However, they do need to actually Digest the original body, as they actually harvest and individually place things like hair, which they cannot recreate from themselves.  So any source of Bones that are not still semi-fresh bodies would have that downside.  

The real question would be whether having any sort of Invested skeleton would cause any additional effects, and I dont know that answer for certain.  We've been told in a WOB (below) that any Invested metal object would be close enough to a Hemalurgic Spike to function as a Blessing for a Kandra. We've also been told that Kandra could theoretically use a metal skeleton made entirely of Hemalurgic Spikes, and it would actually work better for them because they have more control over their own bind points, though too many can be dangerous tot he psyche even without a Shard futzing with you.  So on that note Awakened Bones might offer the same, and grant Sentience to a Kandra in the same way a Blessing might.  They might even offer some of the Heightening benefits the same way Blessing Spikes can offer additional abilities.    You'd probably have to scrape off that pesky stone first though, so Invested Bones themselves were in direct contact.  

The Dakhor Skeleton would probably not work for several reasons (though anything can be overcome with world-hopping hoodoo):  There's currently no (natural) way to be a Kandra that is also Native Born to Sel and so able to access those magics.  If you manage to overcome that, there's still the issue of the Dakhor skeleton not actually being part of the Kandra, and just being contained inside them might not be enough to integrate it into their Spiritweb.  That being said, both those issues might be surmountable by Hemalurgy, with a Spike to grant Sel Connection and another to anchor the Skeleton into the Kandra's Spiriweb.  

 

 

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focoma

We've seen Kandra True Bodies made of crystal, stone, or wood. Can a kandra use a True Body made of metal? If so, what happens if each metal "bone" had a Hemalurgic charge, and each one is touching an appropriate bind point?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And that would work, better than you think, because Kandra have fluid bind points. But too many spikes can be dangerous to the psyche, even with Ati not messing things up.

/r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015)

 

 

 

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Questioner

Could Nightblood theoretically be turned into a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

The problem with that is that Nightblood is already invested, so it depends on your version of ' Hemalurgic spikes'. Piercing someone's body with Invested metal can have weird effects all through the Cosmere, but ripping off a piece of a person's soul using an un-Invested spike to Invest it and create one is different... we're talking about two different things, right. So there's the.... so what is a Hemalurgic spike? For instance if you've got a spike that's Invested and you stick it into a Kandra on Scadrial it will still work as an Invested Hemalurgic spike. Making a new Invested spike by ripping off a person's soul, that's a different process and a little more difficult to accomplish and requires some specialized knowledge.

Barnes & Noble B-Fest 2016 (June 11, 2016)

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Honorless said:

And what do you think of a Dakhor monk's skeleton in the hands of a Bloodsealer, @Ookla the Ingeniator?

Turns out that one has been answered directly, as has the question of a Kandra with Dakhor bones.  I should have checked the Wiki first:

 

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Questioner

Let's say a Bloodsealer got his hands on a Dakhor monk's bones. Could it still access the Dor. *Inaudible* Could they even be reanimated, and could they still be useful?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a really good question. So the bones are a conduit, much like Allomantic metal is. Allomantic metals are pretty easy to affect Investitures. I would say getting a-hold of a Dakhor monk's bones, likely, would work. Likely, they're not going to resist too much. But, I'm going to say harder to access the magic than you'd think, but easier than with regular bones.

So I'm going to give you a yes.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

 

 

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Questioner

If a kandra where to get the bones of a Dakhor monk, would they get the Dakhor monk's abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

If a kandra got a hold of the bones of a Dahkor monk, yeah, would they get the abilities… It would take more than just the bones, but that would be a big part of it.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

 

 

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