Nameless

My plan to destroy most of the investiture in the Cosmere

18 posts in this topic

This is my plan to destroy the Cosmere:

1. Get Nightblood. Nightblood is probably the most invested weapon in the Cosmere:

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Questioner

Is Nightblood a minor Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood is one of the most heavily Invested things in the cosmere that is not a Shard.

However, Nightblood is not invested enough to kill a Shard:

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Questioner

Hypothetically could Nightblood Splinter a Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, Splintering a Shard takes more power than Nightblood has.

So I need to make him more powerful, which I will do in step two:

2. Strengthen Nightblood. to increase Nightblood's strength, you must feed him investiture. This can be done in two ways: 1. you let him feed off of the investiture that you are holding, the best method for this would probably be to become a knight radiant, then go out in a storm and draw him, letting him feed off of stormlight. 2. Kill heavily invested stuff with him. This is the option that I will be using, as it will be far faster. My first target will be the unmade, as per this WoB:

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Questioner

You've previously said that Nightblood is the most powerful non-Shardic being in the Cosmere. Is he more powerful than the Unmade or Stormfather in terms of raw Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Raw Investiture? Here's the thing, when you say powerful, it can mean lots of different things. More raw Investiture than the Stormfather... probably not. Than the Unmade, probably. I would have to look, I don't have the numbers on this. But the Stormfather is very restricted in what he can do.

Since he has more investiture than the Unmade, I will kill all ten of them first, then while all of Roshar is rejoicing, I will kill the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher, whatever the third bondsmith spren is, Cusicesh the protector, and any other large spren on Roshar. I will then kill all of the avatars of Autonomy, starting with Patji. If Nightblood isn't strong enough yet, I will take a side trip to Sel, and let him spend some time in the Dor. Then comes step Three:

3. Eliminate all the shards. I will start with Endowment, as she is most likely the weakest, having intentionally splintered herself to give everyone breaths. After this, I will work my way through the shards, ending with Odium and Harmony, in that order.

 

Obviously for this plan to work, I would need a way to hide both myself and Nightblood from the Shards until it is too ate for them to stop him. Anyone have any suggestions or problems with my plan?

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Questioner

Does Nightblood annihilate Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Investiture cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change forms. But, anything more than that is a RAFO.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)
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emailanimal

From a very recent signing, we have this new Word of Brandon...

chasmfriend's son: Is there a finite amount of Investiture?

Brandon: Yes.

chasmfriend's son: So is Nightblood consuming it?

Brandon: Yes. Very, very slowly.

This worries me somewhat because of the following observation.

Nightblood consumes Breath (and other Investiture, but let's limit ourselves to Breath for a second).

Every person on Nalthis is born with one Breath.

Populations tend to grow. Which means that under normal rules of demographics, population of Nalthis should keep increasing.

This in turn means that under normal circumstances the number of people with Breath on Nalthis should be growing.

I can see the following possible explanations to this:

  1. Endowment can give Breath to many more people than are currently living on Nalthis. So, the exponential population growth has not yet reached the level at which Endowment's ability to award a Breath to each Nalthis-born human is seriously challenged. When it happens though, things will not go well.

  2. There is some built-in mechanism controlling population growth on Nalthis, making certain that the population stays within the limits. Nightblood's consumption of Breath makes these limits smaller, and overall may lead to Endowment's inability to grant Breath to Nalthis-born, but not for a while (essentially, Endowment controls population trends at she sees fit).

Thoughts?

Brandon Sanderson

Just as a point you should understand, the amount of MATTER in the cosmere is finite too. As is the amount of energy.

Worrying that Endowment will run out of Breaths to give is a little like worrying that the amount of carbon on Earth will run out because people keep being born.

uchoo786

So just for clarification, once Nightblood consumes investiture, that investiture gets recycled? That's what I've always assumed. That it enters the cognitive/spiritual realm?

Brandon Sanderson

The investiture he consumes is not gone forever--it's not leaving the system, so to speak.

General Reddit 2015 (Dec. 14, 2015)

I don't think that's Nightblood's role in the narrative.

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The amount of Investiture in the Cosmere is so inconceivably large that I doubt Nightblood could even make a dent on a Shard, even with this laid-out plan.

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@Honorless, a better title would have been "my plan to kill all the shards in the Cosmere" I saw that thread, it was one of the things that inspired me to make this post.

16 hours ago, Inky said:

The amount of Investiture in the Cosmere is so inconceivably large that I doubt Nightblood could even make a dent on a Shard, even with this laid-out plan.

Even if eating all three bondsmith spren, the unmade, all large spren on Roshar, and the avatars of Autonomy isn't enough, I can always let him eat the Dor, which is the combined power of Devotion and Dominion:

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Questioner

So you said that different Investitures from different worlds can fuel different Investitures, right? Would that mean that you could potentially use Stormlight for Allomancy and/or Feruchemy.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a little harder with the metallic arts than, for instance, Nightblood is the easiest example. He can just feed on whatever investiture is around.

Questioner

Could he feed on the Dor from...

Brandon Sanderson

He could totally feed on the Dor.

Questioner

Would you need to have a special sheathe to do that or?

Brandon Sanderson

No, what you would have to do for him on Elantris is you would have to open some conduit to the Dor that's persistent, like a light or something, and he will suck through that, he would probably end up sucking the whole aon.

Questioner

Sucking Elantris itself?

Brandon Sanderson

Sucking Elantris itself would work, yeah, but you're gonna be in trouble if he sucks up the whole thing, which is totally possible.

 

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3 hours ago, Llstml said:

a better title would have been "my plan to kill all the shards in the Cosmere" I saw that thread, it was one of the things that inspired me to make this post.

The Shards are Investiture. If you just want to kill the Vessels, Nightblood might already be able to do that, considering a new Starsight wob

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[suggestion]

Questioner

If it's possible for Nightblood to actually interact with a Shard, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shard would try to stay very far away from Nightblood. Nightblood could not plausibly destroy an entire Shard but the Vessel could be in danger.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

I doubt Nightblood could eat the whole Dor. It's huge, and Nightblood will eventually stop eating. That WoB only says he can feed on the Dor, not kill it. 

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16 minutes ago, Inky said:

I doubt Nightblood could eat the whole Dor. It's huge, and Nightblood will eventually stop eating. That WoB only says he can feed on the Dor, not kill it.

Then what does this mean:

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Questioner

So you said that different Investitures from different worlds can fuel different Investitures, right? Would that mean that you could potentially use Stormlight for Allomancy and/or Feruchemy.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a little harder with the metallic arts than, for instance, Nightblood is the easiest example. He can just feed on whatever investiture is around.

Questioner

Could he feed on the Dor from...

Brandon Sanderson

He could totally feed on the Dor.

Questioner

Would you need to have a special sheathe to do that or?

Brandon Sanderson

No, what you would have to do for him on Elantris is you would have to open some conduit to the Dor that's persistent, like a light or something, and he will suck through that, he would probably end up sucking the whole aon.

Questioner

Sucking Elantris itself?

Brandon Sanderson

Sucking Elantris itself would work, yeah, but you're gonna be in trouble if he sucks up the whole thing, which is totally possible.

A shard would keep way from him, like how the mists would withdraw from him, but the Dor wouldn't be smart enough to do that, as it has nothing controlling it.

16 minutes ago, Inky said:

The Shards are Investiture. If you just want to kill the Vessels, Nightblood might already be able to do that, considering a new Starsight wob

Nightblood absorbs investiture, so he could potentially absorb an entire shard if he was powerful enough, or maybe splinter them, although splintering is unlikely because of this WoB:

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Iceblade44

if you were to chuck Nightblood into a Shard that had the intent of Evil would Nightblood splinter it?

Brandon Sanderson

Splintering is a completely different process from what Nightblood does. :)

 

Edited by Llstml
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Just now, Llstml said:
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Sucking Elantris itself would work, yeah, but you're gonna be in trouble if he sucks up the whole thing, which is totally possible.

 

That you'd be in trouble if he ate Elantris? I figured that was obvious 

Also

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A Shard would try to stay very far away from Nightblood. Nightblood could not plausibly destroy an entire Shard but the Vessel could be in danger.

 

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7 hours ago, Llstml said:

@Honorless, a better title would have been "my plan to kill all the shards in the Cosmere" I saw that thread, it was one of the things that inspired me to make this post.

The link I gave to the other thread became very relevant then. Nightblood can get satiated from too much Investiture (Battle of Thaylen City) and has not yet become more Invested than The Stormfather.

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Questioner

You've previously said that Nightblood is the most powerful non-Shardic being in the Cosmere. Is he more powerful than the Unmade or Stormfather in terms of raw Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Raw Investiture? Here's the thing, when you say powerful, it can mean lots of different things. More raw Investiture than the Stormfather... probably not. Than the Unmade, probably. I would have to look, I don't have the numbers on this. But the Stormfather is very restricted in what he can do.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

One could also note that Odium didn't pick him up when the sword was thrown at his feet (though that doesn't necessarily say anything). Yes, it poses a risk to people who hold Investiture, it doesn't pose any risk to Investiture itself and thus, doesn't pose any risk to the Shards of Adonalsium.

As for the Dor, Nightblood can't consume it. That's two Shards. He can however, consume the very structure of the Aons from AonDor

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Just another guyn

If an Elantrian were to get a hold of Nightblood and draw it, how would Nightblood react to that-- What kind of power would be unleashed?

Brandon Sanderson

So Nightblood needs kinetic Investiture to feed upon. The Elantrian would have to be able to get a conduit to the Dor to feed Nightblood or Nightblood would just eat their soul.

Just another guyn

So if they used AonDor to fuel Nightblood--

Brandon Sanderson

There are some types of AonDor that would work, and there are others that would not.

Just another guyn

And would Nightblood just keep going until either the Aon was--

Brandon Sanderson

He would dissolve the Aon as he drew the power from it.

Just another guyn

So it wouldn't just empty the Dor?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it would not empty the Dor.

BYU Writing Class Wrap-up 2017 (April 25, 2017)

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Questioner

Could an Elantrian just write an Aon above Nightblood and then use it forever?

Brandon Sanderson

Use it forever? No. 

Questioner

Forever is pushing it.

Brandon Sanderson

No, no, I mean, Nightblood would destroy an Aon pretty quickly. It would pull power through it--

Questioner

It would be like trying to put too much power through a small--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it would just rip it up to shreds. You'd get a little use out of it. He would eat the very structure of it, if that makes any sense.

Oathbringer Leeds signing (Dec. 1, 2017)

including the city of Elantris.

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shard would keep way from him, like how the mists would withdraw from him, but the Dor wouldn't be smart enough to do that, as it has nothing controlling it

The Mists pulling away from Hemalurgy is an example of interaction between Shards of opposing Intents, mot a sign of Preservation's Investiture fleeing before Ruin's influence. Hemalurgy doesn't do what Nightblood does either.

Edited by Honorless
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16 hours ago, Inky said:

That you'd be in trouble if he ate Elantris? I figured that was obvious

I misinterpreted that to mean the whole Dor, although it's still not 100% clear. I can still go into the cognitive realm on sel, draw Nightblood, and have him absorb the Dor that way.

13 hours ago, Honorless said:

The link I gave to the other thread became very relevant then. Nightblood can get satiated from too much Investiture (Battle of Thaylen City) and has not yet become more Invested than The Stormfather.

Which is why I start with the Unmade, as the WoB said he was (probably) more invested than them. I then move on to the stormfather, after absorbing all nine unmade, as their combined investiture is probably enough to beat out the stormfather.

13 hours ago, Honorless said:

One could also note that Odium didn't pick him up when the sword was thrown at his feet (though that doesn't necessarily say anything). Yes, it poses a risk to people who hold Investiture, it doesn't pose any risk to Investiture itself and thus, doesn't pose any risk to the Shards of Adonalsium.

Nightblood absorbs investiture, and therefore if he was powerful enough, he might be able to absorb all of a shard. My fundamental assumption with this plan is that as Nightblood becomes more invested, he is able to absorb more investiture at a time, until he is able to eat an entire shard. If he doesn't work like that, then my plan will fail.

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I'm pretty sure Nightblood will Ascend or go through some other similar transformation before he could consume multiple Shards

Besides Investiture cannot be destroyed.

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But Nightblood can absorb it, destroying allomancy, as that draws it's power from Preservation, The white sands sand would no longer turn white, Sel's magic would no longer be able to draw from the Dor, And People would no longer receive breaths on Nalthis.

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Again, anything that comes close to holding that much Investiture, all of which is keyed to some Shard would likely become something else.

Also Nightblood can't do all of those things. There is only one of him and he would destroy the structure or the key, the AonDor or the metals long before he gets to the source and then killing his bearer by absorbing their spark of life. A Perpendicularity was more than enough by magnitudes to satiate him.

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1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Also Nightblood can't do all of those things. There is only one of him and he would destroy the structure or the key, the AonDor or the metals long before he gets to the source and then killing his bearer by absorbing their spark of life. A Perpendicularity was more than enough by magnitudes to satiate him.

If Nightblood killed all of the shards, and absorbed their investiture, then that might cause all of the magics that are directly fueled by shards to stop functioning. As I said earlier, my entire plan hinges on the fact that Nightblood is able to absorb more investiture the more invested he becomes. Also, are you saying that Nightblood would cease to function after absorbing all of that power? I believe his purpose is Destroy Evil not Absorb investiture until you get full, Nightblood would still kill you if you were stabbed by him, even if he was satiated.

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I dont think Nighblood gets more powerful when he feeds. Thats just him in release mode.

I also think i may have found a way through Brandons Nightblood/Investiture contradiction.

Nightblood absorbs investiture and say changes it from a positive charge to a negative. Its back in the sysyem but cannot be used, effectively 'destroyed'.

Edited by Thanatos
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8 hours ago, Llstml said:

If Nightblood killed all of the shards, and absorbed their investiture, then that might cause all of the magics that are directly fueled by shards to stop functioning. As I said earlier, my entire plan hinges on the fact that Nightblood is able to absorb more investiture the more invested he becomes. Also, are you saying that Nightblood would cease to function after absorbing all of that power? I believe his purpose is Destroy Evil not Absorb investiture until you get full, Nightblood would still kill you if you were stabbed by him, even if he was satiated.

We don't know Nightblood's full capabilities, Brandon seems to be hinting that Nightblood gets more powerful as he keeps getting more Investiture, I guess we'll see.

As I said earlier, thrice, Shards have Intents. If Nightblood somehow managed to eat a Shard, he won't be a just a Type IV Awakened Object anymore.

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Among all of this there are the minor details of passing Nightblood's test and surviving Shardic attacks/exposure to the Dor. Given what you intend to do with Nightblood I imagine you wouldn't pass the test.

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35 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

Among all of this there are the minor details of passing Nightblood's test and surviving Shardic attacks/exposure to the Dor. Given what you intend to do with Nightblood I imagine you wouldn't pass the test.

Ah, the bearer himself is evil

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