So small, Dalinar thought. Has he always looked that small?

[Ixthos]

There are two passages in Oathbringer that, taken together, raise an interesting question, and one that has been asked before - when Dalinar said his oaths in Oathbringer, did he take up Honour, or something more? And if so, was that what Odium meant when he said that they had killed him? Or, why did Odium seem to change size relative to Dalinar?

 

The two passages in question

 

Odium's apparent size relative to Dalinar in the chapter - Passion:

Quote

“No.” Dalinar stood. “You shouldn’t have revealed yourself, Odium. I once feared you, but it is easier to fear what you don’t understand. I’ve seen you now, and I can fight you.”
“You’ve seen me, have you? Curious.”
Odium smiled again.
Then everything went white. Dalinar found himself standing on a speck of nothingness that was the entire world, looking up at an eternal, all-embracing flame. It stretched in every direction, starting as red, moving to orange, then changing to blazing white.
Then somehow, the flames seemed to burn into a deep blackness, violet and angry.
This was something so terrible that it consumed light itself. It was hot. A radiance indescribable, intense heat and black fire, colored violet at the outside.
Burning.
Overwhelming.
Power.
It was the scream of a thousand warriors on the battlefield.
It was the moment of most sensual touch and ecstasy.
It was the sorrow of loss, the joy of victory.
And it was hatred. Deep, pulsing hatred with a pressure to turn all things molten. It was the heat of a thousand suns, it was the bliss of every kiss, it was the lives of all men wrapped up in one, defined by everything they felt.
Even taking in the smallest fraction of it terrified Dalinar. It left him tiny and frail. He knew if he drank of that raw, concentrated, liquid black fire, he’d be nothing in a moment. The entire planet of Roshar would puff away, no more consequential than the curling smoke of a snuffed-out candle.
It faded, and Dalinar found himself lying on the rock outside Feverstone Keep, staring upward. Above him, the sun seemed dim and cold. Everything felt frozen by contrast.
Odium knelt down beside him, then helped him rise to a seated position. “There, there. That was a smidge too much, wasn’t it? I had forgotten how overwhelming that could be. Here, take a drink.” He handed Dalinar a waterskin.
Dalinar looked at it, baffled, then up at the old man. In Odium’s eyes, he could see that violet-black fire. Deep, deep within. The figure with whom Dalinar spoke was not the god, it was merely a face, a mask.
Because if Dalinar had to confront the true force behind those smiling eyes, he would go mad.

 

Odium's apparent size relative to Dalinar in the chapter - Unity

Quote

Unite them!
Gloryspren streamed around Dalinar. Thousands of golden spheres, more spren than he’d ever seen in one place. They swirled around him in a column of golden light.
Beyond it, Odium stumbled back.
So small, Dalinar thought. Has he always looked that small?

 

Note that the two chapters are named after what Odium called himself, and what Dalinar called himself.

 

Now, there are a few possibilities as to why Dalinar said Odium is small. It could be that, due to Odium being damaged, Dalinar saw Odium as being small when he took up - in part - the power, which may be Honour or something else. It might be that, because Dalinar was holding a shard - sort of holding the shard, or part of a shard, or more than one shard, or something related? - that Odium and Dalinar were about the same size, and so Odium seemed small. It could be that because Odium is projecting he seemed small (though bare in mind all the shards project, they aren't physical, they are the nexus for the power which is not tied to a single location in the cognitive and physical realms, so Dalinar was likely looking directly at the power anyway). It could be that Dalinar took up something more than a single shard. The question is why did Odium look large once, and small later, especially given that what was shown in Passion is like what other shards have shown before, and so likely isn't a trick but an actual representation of what Odium is associated with, scope and nature unbiased.

 

So, what do you think happened?

[Honorless]

Maybe Rayse is short ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited November 28, 2019 by Honorless

[+Bliev]

I think it was mostly by relative comparison, but also because of Odium’s chosen projection at that moment. When you feel hopeless, even the smallest amount of hope and power can make you feel larger and stronger. Add to that the very real influx of power that Dalinar tapped into at that moment and I’m sure Odium felt smaller than he ever had. 

[Yezrien]

I like the theory that Odium seemed smaller the second time because Dalinar was so much more invested, on the verge of "Ascending." Odium seemed smaller to him the way your childhood home seems smaller when you visit it as an adult. Not small, not smaller than you, but smaller relative to you.

It's also possible that Dalinar was able to subconsciously sense some of the forces that bind Odium, which made him feel less threatening.

[Aon Tia]

I think that when dalinar met odium first time, Odium was a shard whereas dalinar a mere human, he could not comprehend the infinite power and trying to understand would have broken his mind.
 

But later, Dalinar has kinda, ascended and that has put him in a more equal-ish measure to odium. Moreover, normally a shard’s majority power is lying in spiritual realm and it is not manifest. But, at that moment, dalinar had held a lot of that power manifesting it Directly in PR via creating the perpendicularity, so I think he saw odium’s manifestation in PR to be really small. 

[Fractalfire]

For some reason I got the impression that Odium, as a mortal, was shorter than average. 

Another possibility is that, since he is trapped on Braize, Odium's influence on Roshar actually is fairly weak and small; Dalinar just doesn't realize that till he has another point of comparison. 

[RShara]

I think it's more a matter of Dalinar's emotional and maturity perspective,not an issue of physical size or power. Dalinar realized how small and petty Hatred could be and how little he actually had to fear from it.

[Karger]

13 minutes ago, RShara said:

I think it's more a matter of Dalinar's emotional and maturity perspective,not an issue of physical size or power. Dalinar realized how small and petty Hatred could be and how little he actually had to fear from it.

Basically.  I don't think it was realmatics it was more he saw how useless and silly Odium was.

[KandraAllomancer]

I think it's a combination of two factors: Dalinar Ascended, making him closer to Odium's power level, but he's also influenced by Unity, which doesn't seem to be of (just) Honor

[Ripheus23]

I have nothing real to add but storms, Ixthos, that's an insanely good catch about the chapter titles.

[Nellac]

I like all your theories, but I think there is one more option. Odium could've been manipulating events to make himself seem more overwhelming. There are two ways I think this is likely. It's important to note that when Dalinar is overwhelmed by Odium he is in one of his visions. We see that honor can use these visions to show Dalinar almost anything. It's possible that Odium simply took over the vision and used it to show Dalinar a larger grander version of his power. The other option is more interesting. We know that Odium's shard/identity has something to do with emotion. His name literally means widespread anger. We also see him manipulate emotions when he takes away Moash's pain and asks to take Dalinar's. It's possible that he could've simply manipulated Dalinar's emotions to create an overwhelming feeling. It could be even stronger then a mistborn using emotional allomancy and duralomin. He also could have more control to create the stronger and more detailed emotions.

 

[Frustration]

Odium is the bully that cries once you punch back. It has been so long since Honor was splintered that he has forgotten how to deal with challenges and is unprepared for this. Dalinar sees Odium can't live up to the persona he showed in the vision and seems smaller by comparison Dalinar isn't on his level but Odium lost control and made himself appear smaller.