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Harmonium in Hemalurgy and Feruchemy

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Since Sazed currently holds Ruin, Hemalurgy is of him now. Since he also holds Preservation, calling the combination Harmony, he also has an entirely new godmetal that we saw in BoM. Duscovered by the Southern Scadrians, who call it Ettmetal and use it to power their ships, create powerful bombs as well as Allomantic grenades. This metal is explosive on contact with water, Brandon compared it with Cesium.

As we saw with the Inquisitors, Hemalurgic constructs can survive wounds inflicted by the spike and in fact, alter the receiver's biology so that they can survive being impaled. The Inquisitors' brains itself was reshaped to allow the spikes to pass through, as well as, it seems their skeletal structure and muscular structure as well as possibly a few internal organs and their circulatory system. So couldn't their body do something to accommodate a Harmonium spike?

It doesn't solve the problem of the spike degrading or getting damaged or exploding while it's still... passing through the donor, but I'm hoping you all could provide some theories for that end.

Now, assuming success of such a venture, what power(s) do(es) Harmonium steal?

Feruchemy can sidestep the godmetal's reaction with water, provided the Feruchemist takes a few precautions like covering up their metalmind so as to not expose it to water. So what would a Harmonium metalmind store?

Edited by Honorless
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1 hour ago, Honorless said:

It doesn't solve the problem of the spike degrading or getting damaged or exploding while it's still... passing through the donor, but I'm hoping you all could provide some theories for that end.

You might be able to alloy it and steal something else but I don't think you can steal anything hemalurgically with harmonium without blowing your spike up.

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Now, assuming success of such a venture, what power(s) do(es) Harmonium steal?

No idea.  Lerasium steals everything atium steals anything(allomanticaly).  Perhaps it steels all properties except allomantic ones and this is how Kelseir does the thing.

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Feruchemy can sidestep the godmetal's reaction with water, provided the Feruchemist takes a few precautions like covering up their metalmind so as to not expose it to water. So what would a Harmonium metalmind store?

My current guess is your mind and will power.  Basically your cognitive self.

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Well if you wear the spike as an earring, and have something like a plastic cap over it, that would be your best bet to not have it explode as a spike in the recipient. As for charging it through the donor... I have no idea. Maybe, MAYBE you can wrap it in plastic wrap or something, but other than that I doubt anything would really work.

If you did get it to work I feel like it might do something pretty extreme, like straight up unstapling someone's cognitive shadow (or, what becomes one) from their body and binding it to the spike, allowing them to be sort of like a

[Stormlight Archive]

Spoiler

Fused and bodyhop to whoever is wearing the spike (with hemalurgic decay as usual, such that they slowly go insane, much like a Fused. Hmm.

Or maybe it just steals ALL powers simultaneously from the donor, meaning you could steal the powers of a mistborn and a full feruchemist as a pair of (large) earrings and be a Fullborn. Would be pretty powerful but it's obviously hard to get a harmonium spike anyway what with the explosiveness.

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While I think you can get around the whole explosive when wet issue with Allomancy, Harmonium and Hemalurgy is more problematic.  Allomancy only requires you to have it "inside" you, and WOB states that piercings can work and be burned.  We also know from Vin that a spike can be used like a piercing, being inserted and removed repeatedly in what I believe was a normally Pierced Ear, and it functions fine in that circumstance.  That being said, I dont think you could actually Charge spike using that loophole.  We know the insertion Bind Point and the Harvest Point are not necessarily the same, and we've been told in several WOB's that the process is lethal without magical intervention. And in general we've been told that the blood being in motion is a specific part of that.  All that to say a charged spike is Invested enough to work without actually touching the blood, but I think it's the Charge itself that allows that to work, meaning you'd have to go the full Blood Contact route to get the initial Charge into it.  

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I'm not sure if getting the spike wet while harvesting or using it would really be a problem. I'm not sure if blood would cause the same reaction as water. Plus, your body can adjust to the spike because when it pierces you it alters your spirit web, melding with it. That should work for the metal too, adapting so it won't explode.

Now, as far as what it would steal. I'm thinking a Harmonium spike wouldn't need to harvest in order to get a hemalurgic charge. After all, it's part Lerasium. I'm guessing it would work as a "transferable" Lerasium burn.   

When it comes to Ferrochemy, I believe it would let you store any ferrochemical ability. Maybe all at once.

 

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I agree with @danox46 about what Harmonium would normally do. However, I think if you can find a way to tap the metal’s OWN investiture, it would cause someone to become a Feruchemist.

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1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I agree with @danox46 about what Harmonium would normally do. However, I think if you can find a way to tap the metal’s OWN investiture, it would cause someone to become a Feruchemist.

That sounds promising, but I would guess burning the metal (The way I can think of to tap that investiture) would be harder, there's usually pure water in your stomach...

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49 minutes ago, danox46 said:

I'm not sure if getting the spike wet while harvesting or using it would really be a problem. I'm not sure if blood would cause the same reaction as water. Plus, your body can adjust to the spike because when it pierces you it alters your spirit web, melding with it. That should work for the metal too, adapting so it won't explode.

He says it reacts like a super-cesium, and cesium (like all alkali metals) reacts explosively to any moisture, even high humitidy. The water molcules in Blood will qualify just as much as the spit, etc that it would contact if swallowed, which we know would cause an explosion. 

 

49 minutes ago, danox46 said:

Now, as far as what it would steal. I'm thinking a Harmonium spike wouldn't need to harvest in order to get a hemalurgic charge. After all, it's part Lerasium. I'm guessing it would work as a "transferable" Lerasium burn.   

I dont understand your logic here?  Hemalurgy is of Ruin, not Preservation, and even in that case Atium spikes cannot self-charge.  

49 minutes ago, danox46 said:

When it comes to Ferrochemy, I believe it would let you store any ferrochemical ability. Maybe all at once.

Certainly possible, that's often cited as the leading theory for what Lerasium would have done feruchemically.  

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44 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I dont understand your logic here?  Hemalurgy is of Ruin, not Preservation, and even in that case Atium spikes cannot self-charge.  

Atium was only of Ruin. In this case, it would be of both (including the source of allomancy). Maybe it would act a little more as it does by itself. Instead of just granting the powers, it would let the person copy the powers being used nearby. A coin shot pushes nearby, you become a coin shot for a while. It's just a theory, for all we know it's not even usable in that way. 

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2 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Maybe, MAYBE you can wrap it in plastic wrap or something, but other than that I doubt anything would really work.

I am pretty sure you need physical contact with blood.

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Allomantically: If you could manage to burn it as an allomantic metal, then I think it would grant you any allomantic or feruchemical power as long as someone with that power is in the vicinity as long as you are burning it. If more than one listings or feedings are in your vicinity then it may be will grant you all their powers while burning it. 
however, I think for Allomancy, some alloy of ettmetal which is more stable could be more important than ettmetal itself considering the problem with moisture and explosions

Feruchemically, I think managing a metal mind is more easy and keeping it from getting wet should be more possible although sweating is a major issue there.. but I think a feruchemical metalmind should allow you to store any power of the person in your vicinity which then you can later tap as per your convenience but this metalmind is only keyed to your identity so it is usable only by you unless you store nicrosil along with other powers..

Hemalurgically: A spike of ettmetal I think should be able to steal all the powers of someone you spike.. 

 

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Oh drats, so no one can think of anything to make the spike go through the donor without exploding except wrapping it in plastic?

Hmm... okay, so a Harmonium spike would make even the donors whose stolen attribute would require piercing a non-lethal area one-time donors

( ◕‿◕✿) It can still work

Edited by Honorless
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9 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Oh drats, so no one can think of anything to make the spike go through the donor without exploding except wrapping it in plastic?

I think an ear piercing is most likely because less blood and spike might survive.. 

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Not sure if anyone here has any experience with piercings... But uh... Healed piercing holes aren't "dry." They produce an oily substance called sputum... 

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1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Not sure if anyone here has any experience with piercings... But uh... Healed piercing holes aren't "dry." They produce an oily substance called sputum... 

Source? I'm pretty sure piercings don't produce any kind of mucus unless it gets infected. I did have a piercing (it healed up because my school didn't allow boys to wear studs) i don't remember anything like this happening. I also know many people with piercings, I just asked them and they said dryness is more often a problem than any kind of excretions

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4 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Source? I'm pretty sure piercings don't produce any kind of mucus unless it gets infected. I did have a piercing (it healed up because my school didn't allow boys to wear studs) i don't remember anything like this happening. I also know many people with piercings, I just asked them and they said dryness is more often a problem than any kind of excretions

I've had piercings myself, and know a few people into both body modification and suspension. It's not remarkably noticeable other than in the distinct smell of removed piercings. 

It's exceptionally light, and regular cleaning makes it not noticeable at all. And I mislabeled it. Heh. It's "sebum" not sputum. It's from the sebaceous glands throughout the skin. 

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5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I've had piercings myself, and know a few people into both body modification and suspension. It's not remarkably noticeable other than in the distinct smell of removed piercings. 

It's exceptionally light, and regular cleaning makes it not noticeable at all. And I mislabeled it. Heh. It's "sebum" not sputum. It's from the sebaceous glands throughout the skin. 

I think they only happen because the body is trying to completely seal the wound. Piercings do heal.

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Just now, Honorless said:

I think they only happen because the body is trying to completely seal the wound. Piercings do heal.

I had multiple facial piercing for a decade. Never had any infections.

Its literally the same oil that's produced by your skin. In a enclosed channel that is tight enough for water not to enter, that builds up. If not cleaned properly, it can actually be noticed as a whitish film that's a mixture of the oil, dead skin, and bacteria (and their waste). 

I have no idea if skin oil could even create the problem in question with ettmetal, but I'm not just making this up. It is seriously the reason for the distinct smell that piercings have when removed. 

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@Calderis @Honorless what if you coated the spike in a covering , like silver plateing or gold plating , something to prevent water from touching it . Would the piercing not be effective anymore ?

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1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

@Calderis @Honorless what if you coated the spike in a covering , like silver plateing or gold plating , something to prevent water from touching it . Would the piercing not be effective anymore ?

We don't know. I think, the metal needs to be pure and in contact with the subject in order for it to work. Maybe it can be circumvented by using other Allomantic metals as covering, maybe by using coverings that are not metallic at all. Maybe plating doesn't matter at all. We just don't know.

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9 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

@Calderis @Honorless what if you coated the spike in a covering , like silver plateing or gold plating , something to prevent water from touching it . Would the piercing not be effective anymore ?

Coating a bead in another metal would require burning the outer layer to burn the inner layer, so I can't imagine it would be different with a spike. 

Quote

Lurcher

Can you burn a metal wrapped in another metal, if both are Allomantic? Like, the inner metal, could you just burn that before?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you're gonna have to work your way through the outer one.

Lurcher

And what if it was a non-Allomantic metal? The same?

Brandon Sanderson

It's gonna depend on how thick it is, and stuff. But I would say, if you wrap it in a non-Allomantic metal, that's not good for getting to the metal. It's viable, but it just depends on how thick it is, and things like that. Like, sometimes things have been plated to keep the access to the metal off, but usually you would want to do that in aluminum, to make sure.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 22, 2017)

I can't imagine it would be different for spikes. 

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38 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I can't imagine it would be different for spikes. 

Do you think it would be the same for metalminds?

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4 hours ago, Calderis said:

Not sure if anyone here has any experience with piercings... But uh... Healed piercing holes aren't "dry." They produce an oily substance called sputum... 

Ok.. oily substance should not cause the alkali based ettmetal to combust, because it is neither water nor going to cause increase in temperature.. 

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32 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Do you think it would be the same for metalminds?

Feruchemy seems to require touch, so yes. 

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I think u can use it allomantically. 

By dissolving very small quantities of it I alcohol and then flaring it so as to reduce contact with water in ur body. 

Admitted this process might not work until colloids and rudiments nano technology is discovered to extremely dilute the Sazedium in alcohol.

I have no idea what ability it would give u , but perhaps it makes u a feruchemist. If that's the case then taking these nano solutions frequently and flaring them might eventually lead to being a full feruchemist or perhaps activate the dormant Ferring , misting or twinborn Gene in u.

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