SzethIsBadAsHell

Is there a way other than Hemalurgy to become a Ferachemist .

42 posts in this topic

So I’m wondering is thier a way other than Hemalurgy to be become a Ferachemist . If you think about thier must be .

        Basis : Ferachemist is the result of Ruin and Preservation being on Scadrial and infusing together . Before the Final empire , Rashek changed  all other Ferachemist other than himself into Mistwraiths . He began a breeding Program to ween out Ferachemy yet the powers still returned .Thier is active way to become a mistborn or Hemalurgist . The former take a bead of Lerasium ; The latter just go spike someone . So why isn’t thier a physical way to cause Ferachemy . I think there is and has yet to be discovered !

         Harmonry is now both Preservation and Ruin . His metal causes things to explode . I think this is because it’s Too much power infusing the Metal . So be the Origins of Ferachemy Full ferachemist should return on thier own . And Harmony Metal should make you into a mistborn and ferachemist . So why does it explode in water ? I think it’s to much power .

        Maybe if you took and Flake or tiny amount of the Metal and consumed it you would become a fullborn. All the mistborn powers from Preservation . And all the Ferachemical powers both Shards being present in Harmony . Or Maybe you have to spike yourself with his Metal to get it done 

       Maybe the Mistwraiths are the key . It just Doesn’t make sense all the Precursors are thier for Ferachemy to return in full force . 

Somebody tell me why you think this is??? Thier is no wrong answer as none of us know why . Just give your best s        

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21 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

So I’m wondering is thier a way other than Hemalurgy to be become a Ferachemist . If you think about thier must be .

Brandon has said that Feruchemy originally came from Preservation and there are other ways to get it aside from genetics or hemalurgy, but we don't know what they are yet.

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        Basis : Ferachemist is the result of Ruin and Preservation being on Scadrial and infusing together . Before the Final empire , Rashek changed  all other Ferachemist other than himself into Mistwraiths . He began a breeding Program to ween out Ferachemy yet the powers still returned .Thier is active way to become a mistborn or Hemalurgist . The former take a bead of Lerasium ; The latter just go spike someone . So why isn’t thier a physical way to cause Ferachemy . I think there is and has yet to be discovered !

You're reading too much into this. The sDNA for feruchemy is in the entire Terris population and Rashek only went after all the people who currently expressed that sDNA in being feruchemists, but he didn't completely eliminate the possibility of future feruchemists being born among the Terris people; really the only way to have done that would be to kill everyone of Terris descent and that was too far for him. He tried to wipe out feruchemy with his slightly less brutal methods but it didn't ultimately work, due to a combination of genetics (enough people are going to be born with the trait and it presumably works similar to allomancy in that it can hide out for a few generations before reappearing), feruchemists getting better at hiding themselves/the general difficulty of finding them with A-Bronze and the Synod working around the breeding program or even manipulating it in an attempt to increase the number of people with feruchemical sDNA. There's no reason to posit that the Terris people had some secret way to reintroduce feruchemy into the population when we already know that Rashek's plans were insufficient to guarantee the complete removal of feruchemical sDNA.

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         Harmonry is now both Preservation and Ruin . His metal causes things to explode . I think this is because it’s Too much power infusing the Metal

Harmonium isn't explosive because of 'too much power', it's explosive because the Investiture that makes it up comes from Sazed's two opposing Shards and they don't play well together.

Edited by Weltall
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21 minutes ago, Weltall said:

ou're reading too much into this. The sDNA for feruchemy is in the entire Terris population and Rashek only went after all the people who currently expressed that sDNA in being feruchemists, but he didn't completely eliminate the possibility of future feruchemists being born among the Terris people; really the only way to have done that would be to k

I don’t think I am . No question is a dumb question  if you don’t know the answer . In the link you shared , the questioner asked the exact question I did . Brandon says there is a way to obtain it and no we haven’t missed in the books . He did say it came from Preservation which is opposite of what I understood . I thought it came from both shards being infused on the same planet . So on that I was mistaken . Brandon even said that question was a good one , then he RAFO . So I assume he will tell us in the lost metals . What I’m trying to do is guess before that happens . 

 

29 minutes ago, Weltall said:

There's no reason to posit that the Terris people had some secret way to reintroduce feruchemy into the population whe

1st I never posisted this . What I meant was if Ferachemy was due to the two Powers infusing on the planet , then it should return genetically in generations . There should be a full ferachemist by now . Rashek created the noble and the Ska which neither genetically had Ferachemy . 

So what I actually posited was Harmony when he remade the word must have limited the gene Ferachemy so low that it hasn’t returned a bred a full ferachemist yet. 

       So I was asking was thier a way to become a ferachemist without Hemalurgy . Your WoB answered that question . There is . So despite Harmony obvious meddling it may just return . 

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1 hour ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

He did say it came from Preservation which is opposite of what I understood . I thought it came from both shards being infused on the same planet

You're mixing twi different things up. 

As a system it does come from both. 

The Terris were somehow granted access by Preservation. 

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6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

You're mixing twi different things up. 

As a system it does come from both. 

The Terris were somehow granted access by Preservation. 

Ok so when Harmony took over what did he do make some changes ?  

         We know he changed the earth , got rid ash and created trees , flowers , etc . He made Spook a mistborn . All the allomancers now are descended from Spook and Breeze. All the full ferachemist died so , I’m guessing what Terris they had left after 300 years can barely make ferrings.

       So here are the basic questions going thru my mind. 

1.) why didn’t he boost one of Terris until a full Ferachemist like he did Spook ? Or grant access to Terris again as Preservation did ? Do you think it’s because Ruin presence in Harmonry is stopping him? Powers conflicting or what not ?

2.  If there is another way to be a ferachemist outside of Hemalurgy what’s your best guess? Mine is it has something to do with a Mistwraiths . They were created from old Terris people . Might you be able to do some kind of interaction with them to creste a Ferachemist 

3. Would using nicrosil or whatever Metal grants connection and divesting yourself of who you are and trying to fill it with connection to Terris or a Mistwraiths create enough to possibly change a full ferachemist . 

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2 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

1st I never posisted this . What I meant was if Ferachemy was due to the two Powers infusing on the planet , then it should return genetically in generations . There should be a full ferachemist by now . Rashek created the noble and the Ska which neither genetically had Ferachemy . 

So what I actually posited was Harmony when he remade the word must have limited the gene Ferachemy so low that it hasn’t returned a bred a full ferachemist yet.

There's no reason to posit that Harmony had to do anything. Consider the circumstances following the Catacendre: Ruin did every bit as thorough a job eliminating any living feruchemists from the gene pool as Rashek did while using the Well. That means fewer people with feruchemist sDNA strong enough that it's actually expressed in the next generation. Then a significant degree of interbreeding between Terris and non-Terris people happened with the result that the sDNA for allomancy and for feruchemy mixed. We know this led to the dilution of both 'bloodlines' with the result that allomancy and feruchemy are both weaker now than they were in the past.

Basically, there's no reason to assume that Harmony did anything, it's simple genetics. The Terris keep much better genealogical records and are trying to reconstruct a more pure feruchemical bloodline in the hopes of reproducing full feruchemists. This isn't to say there can't be some other way to gain feruchemy (as the first WoB I liinked does state) but there's no reason to assume that Harmony actively interfered in the process, especially since we know he didn't interfere with allomancy.

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@SzethIsBadAsHell not all Allomancers are descended from Spook. There were no living Feruchemists at the time of the Catacendre, but the genes were still in the Terris people. And Spook was made into a (weak) Mistborn, which made him the strongest living Allomancer. But there were tons of living mistings in the storecaches. 

There are mistings and ferrings in the south. They're just rarer. 

The only change to any system that we know was made is that snapping is easier. 

 

Edited by Calderis
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1 hour ago, Weltall said:

Basically, there's no reason to assume that Harmony did anything, it's simple genetics. The Terris keep much better genealogical records and are trying to reconstruct a more pure feruchemical bloodline in the hopes of reproducing full feruchemists. This isn't to say there can't be some other way to gain feruchemy (as the first WoB I liinked does state) but there's no reason to assume that Harmony actively interfered in the process, especially since we know he didn't interfere with allomancy.

I understand and I agree , in fact I said something in my response to calderis. Sometimes when I make a post I don’t think it all the way thru . As the thread developes I see faults in my own theory . 

       My initial thinking was you made Spook a mistborn , why not make a full Terris ; Furthermore, I was under the impression that because Ferachemy came from the fact that two shards permeated a planet . Allomancy was preservations system , Hemalurgy was Ruins system and Ferachemy was part of each . The Terris were the original inhabitants . Rashek created the nobles and the Ska later and they no access to Ferachemy . 

         So after the Catecandra I theorized had not but for the influence of Harmony , the remaining Terris should have developed a full ferachemist by now ! 

        As this thread developed , I realized all the Terras that remained were not Ferachemist , they had it in there Dna , and they were interbreeding . I realized this could of had the same effect as a Shard manipulating the gene pool. 

     Finally I just thought Harmony thought the powers too dangerous . After all he took Kelsier advice and made Spook a mistborn yet felt no need to repair the damage that the lord Ruler had done over millennia . 

         I’m Not going to lie , I loved Sazed . But Harmony. Let’s me down every time . First with Paalm . And then with his own people . I don’t like his stark neutrality at all 

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15 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@SzethIsBadAsHell bit all Allomancers are descended from Spook. There were no living Feruchemists at the time of the Catacendre, but the genes were still in the Terris people. And Spook was made into a (weak) Mistborn, which made him the strongest living Allomancer. But there were tons of living mistings in the storecaches. 

There are mistings and ferrings in the south. They're just rarer. 

The only change to any system that we know was made is that snapping is easier. 

 

Now that I didn’t know . I assumed they all died fighting the Kollos. Other than Spook. . And breeze   The others turned into world hoppers and are galavanting around the Cosmere . 

      I got this from era 2 when the set had traced all its victims back to the lord mistborn . And wax is breeze defendant . I knew they are extremely rare in the south. 

      I guess that was really closed minded of me . Out of all the planets Scadrial has the most potential . I can’t wait to read lost metals or Era 3 for that matter . Thanks for the discussion guys!

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1 hour ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Now that I didn’t know . I assumed they all died fighting the Kollos. Other than Spook. . And breeze   The others turned into world hoppers and are galavanting around the Cosmere . 

The Atium mistings were the ones who died against the Kollos, the other mistings that were with Elend's army weren't there.

1 hour ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I got this from era 2 when the set had traced all its victims back to the lord mistborn . And wax is breeze defendant . I knew they are extremely rare in the south. 

I think they did that because Spook was the last recorded mistborn, and therefore his descendants were the most likely to be allomancers.

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Didn't Ham survive as well?  And who knows how many other Mistings.  Demoux survived because he's in The Stormlight Archive looking for Hoid, and he's an Atium Misting.  So...yeah, a lot of Mistings survived.  

 

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Maybe by burning an alloy of Lerasium and Atium?

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To the OP:

  • Medallions are the most direct and logical way. 
  • Forgery could potentially do it, but it would take one hell of a backstory...
  • Soulcasting could theoretically do it, but it would take a hell of a Spiritweb expert and a boatload of Investiture.  Hoid could probably do it, a Sliver of Preservation and potentially certain others (Ruin maybe, Cultivation probably) could do it.  
  • There's not much that is supposed to be outside the capabilities of AonDor, with enough effort and research.  If it could be leveraged to alter the Spiritweb without being required to maintain those alterations (ie a permanent change like Soulcasting, not a maintained/reversible one like Forgery). 
  • With Zero evidence, I personally think it would be possible to accomplish with a creative use of Breaths, Heightenings, and/or Awakening, but the Commands necessary would be severely complicated.  Feruchemy seems to be very much in line with the Endowment aspect of Breaths, it just seems to me like that should be easier for it to mimic than thinks like a Shardblade...  

 

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

Maybe by burning an alloy of Lerasium and Atium?

Nope, we know that alloy would simply permanently make you an Atium misting (a Seer).  

16 hours ago, Calderis said:

@SzethIsBadAsHell not all Allomancers are descended from Spook. There were no living Feruchemists at the time of the Catacendre, but the genes were still in the Terris people. And Spook was made into a (weak) Mistborn, which made him the strongest living Allomancer. But there were tons of living mistings in the storecaches. 

There are mistings and ferrings in the south. They're just rarer. 

The only change to any system that we know was made is that snapping is easier. 

 

I had entirely forgotten about that, so let me ask you a clarifying question.  The Coppermind says that all Keepers save that one were killed.  Were there potentially any Full Ferucehmists that would not be counted as members of Keeper Organization?  Children I supposed might have been alive with the potential but not yet manifesting it, but Im also wondering if there were any groups of Feruchemists at the time that would not have been counted as part of the Keeper organization. Were all Ferris of the age part of the Keepers, or was that just the primary sect?  

Edited by Quantus
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Hmm... burning Harmonium, then?

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Just now, Honorless said:

Hmm... burning Harmonium, then?

Harmonium cant be burned. 

So, WOB is that it cant be burned for practical reasons: it reacts explosively to water like an alkali metal, so even putting it in your mouth would be lethal, making it impossible to burn.  That being said, we now know that there is actually nothing special about the Stomach.  Its more about being perceived as "inside you", so for example WOB confirms Piercing can be burned.  So if you had a properly made and healed piercing, you should be able to then wear and burn Harmonium...

Based on hat it does currently and my own guesses about the how (which is to say based on almost nothing), I think burning it would project a temporary Cognitive Shadow of yourself, a Ghost-clone.

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@Quantus well I was thinking of a way that anyone could do it from Skadrial . Some of your ideas were intriguing especially soul stamping . 

        However , to become a mistborn you simply swallow and burn a bead of lerasium . ( theoretically you can glean one from harmonium ) to use Hemalurgy you need a spike and a misting or ferring victim and the knowledge on where to spike the person . So there has to be a simple way of becoming a ferachemist beyond medallions . 

         Burning Harmonium might be possible . If you place the harmonium in a liquid that is not water and swallowing it. I’m not sure if it has to be a Terris person or not tho.

 

 

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There might be a trick to burning Harmonium or a hack...

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Get really dehydrated and chase it down with cooking oil?

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I think you’d need to tap the investiture inherent in the God metal. NOT burn it, because that’s the wrong system. 

You burn Lerasium to become an allomancer, thus it is using it within the system it grants. You spike yourself to become a Hemalurgist; again it used within the intended system. So you should have to tap to become a Feruchemist...

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29 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think you’d need to tap the investiture inherent in the God metal. NOT burn it, because that’s the wrong system. 

You burn Lerasium to become an allomancer, thus it is using it within the system it grants. You spike yourself to become a Hemalurgist; again it used within the intended system. So you should have to tap to become a Feruchemist...

I have an issue with that, but it might be an irrational objection.  All Feruchemy we've seen so far is about Storing and Tapping an attribute that already exists in the Spiritweb, and it's always a temporary effect that lasts as long as the Store of Investiture remains.  The concept of Tapping a Metalmind to gain a permanent Change seems counter and outside the way the System works.  Of course, the exact same thing could be said about Lerasium, and it very much existed, so I guess another exception could exist for a godmetal.  

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On 11/21/2019 at 5:45 PM, Quantus said:

I have an issue with that, but it might be an irrational objection.  All Feruchemy we've seen so far is about Storing and Tapping an attribute that already exists in the Spiritweb, and it's always a temporary effect that lasts as long as the Store of Investiture remains.  The concept of Tapping a Metalmind to gain a permanent Change seems counter and outside the way the System works.  Of course, the exact same thing could be said about Lerasium, and it very much existed, so I guess another exception could exist for a godmetal.  

Basically, yes. Normal metal minds have no inherent investiture. They only contain investiture when filled. Harmonium IS Investiture in solid form, as was Atium and Lerasium. That’s the difference.

Atium was an exception too, btw. When burned the power came from the metal itself, as opposed to the metal acting as a means to access Preservation’s power. 

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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18 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Basically, yes. Normal metal minds have no inherent investiture. They only contain investiture when filled. Harmonium IS Investiture in solid form, as was Atium and Lerasium. That’s the difference.

Atium was an exception too, btw. When burned the power came from the metal itself, as opposed to the metal acting as a means to access Preservation’s power. 

You still had to store age in an atium-mind in order to tap it.

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That's probably my real problem here:  We just dont have enough datapoints, so all guesses are as much based on thematic guesses as mechanical ones.  In one case we have a godmetal that acts in all practical ways like a normal metal (Atium) for all three Arts, aside from sourcing allomantic burns in Ruin rather than Preservation.  We also have Lerasium that is the only example of a permanent effect from Allomancy, and we have little to no idea what it does in either other Art.  Then we have Harmonium, which doesnt really act like any of them, since it absorbs and emits both Allomancy and Feruchemy, burns up while being used for allomancy specifically, and can be switched on and off externally.  And of course we have the Trellium mystery, with way more questions than answers. 

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