Necessary Eagle Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 The death of the OA emissary has always bothered me. Dusk and Vathi figure out that the machine is a trap, that they were meant to find it. Which means the emmisary's death wasn't an accident, either. The Ones Above must have somehow arranged for him to die. But how would that work? 1. The emmisary knew he was going to die. Which would raise the huge question of what about their mission he found worth choking himself for. I'm having a hard time imagining someone martyr himself for other people's profits. 2. My phone is a complete chull that keeps deleting the detailed paragraphs I've been laboriously tapping out, forcing me to sum things up abruptly instead of making eloquent arguments. 3. The Ones Above are a bunch of cold bastards who killed off a redshirt because they figured it would be easier to get away with one murder than wholesale violation of the Prime Directive. 4. Phone = storming rusting colorless deathant chull that tries to evade responsibility by autocorrecting to "chill" . 5. The emissary faked his death. Abruptly summed-up version: faking the dead when there's a bunch of people who will be desperately trying to revive you is difficult*. It's also risky because you have to survive whatever the local burial customs might be. Also they might try to cover up their theft by dumping your body overboard and swearing you fell or something. I mean, sure, they have sufficiently advanced magic for space travel, they can probably rig up something. But we know that kandra definitely are good at playing corpse. And it's widely thought that the OA are from Scadrial- which, coincidence coincidence, is where kandra are from. I'm going to cut myself off here before the Chull Phone strikes again, but what do you think? *I mean, I'm assuming. A bunch of godlike Space Dudes with the power to do Patji-knows-what if they're pissed send you an emissary, you'd probably be doing your best to send the guy back in one piece. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ILuvHats Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 That theory does go along with the idea that the Ones Above are at least partially comprised of Scadrians, and I can’t think of any other creatures or magic users that could achieve the same effect. Mainly, I’m thinking about Knights Radiant. I’m not sure how a Radiant could fake their death for a prolonged period of time. Sure, they could heal themselves with stormlight, but any close inspection would reveal that they’re heart is still beating. A Sleepless could fake their death, but since their imitation of humans is so rough, you’d think they’d notice the difference after inspecting the body. A mundane option is that the person used drugs that lowered their heartbeat and breathing to basically imperceptible levels, then the Ones Above ensured they got the “body” back intact. However, I think your idea that it’s a kandra is the best bet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 I mean if it was just the choking thing they had to fake then there's multiple options: the Knights Radiant could do it, a gold or cadmium Ferring could do it. But cessation of lifesigns? Only Kandra could fake it so well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 Do singers even have a heartbeat? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 47 minutes ago, The traveller said: Do singers even have a heartbeat? Hmm... I don't recall any mention of them having a heartbeat but they do have blood so they should also have a biologically functioning heart and not just a Gemheart. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 hmm but it may not be located where human heart is located. So, a heartbeat may not detected easily and pulse rate also may not be easily detected if the wrist is covered under chitin plate armour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 Most theories I've seen placed them as a gasper and just feigned not breathing. Was there any mention of heartbeat at all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Calderis said: Most theories I've seen placed them as a gasper and just feigned not breathing. Was there any mention of heartbeat at all? Nope, just that they died choking. We can only assume that they checked for all lifesigns 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunu’anaki Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Honorless said: Hmm... I don't recall any mention of them having a heartbeat but they do have blood so they should also have a biologically functioning heart and not just a Gemheart. I believe one of the Venli chapters mentions having a "second" heart besides her gemheart, but I could just be imagining things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lunu’anaki said: I believe one of the Venli chapters mentions having a "second" heart besides her gemheart, but I could just be imagining things. I think i remember that too but we are not clear about the location of the heart and therefore, the natives could miss the heartbeat not knowing where to look.. Besides, beneath the Chitin plate attached to the chest, the heartbeat may not be so easily traceable.. Edited November 19, 2019 by The traveller 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoWibble Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 6 hours ago, The traveller said: I think i remember that too but we are not clear about the location of the heart and therefore, the natives could miss the heartbeat not knowing where to look.. Besides, beneath the Chitin plate attached to the chest, the heartbeat may not be so easily traceable.. pretty sure that the rhythms stop when the singer dies, so maybe that could be checked??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 But how will the natives of fots sense the rhythms? It might be just a Rosharan thing.. seeing as the humans can not sense rhythms 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, The traveller said: But how will the natives of fots sense the rhythms? It might be just a Rosharan thing.. seeing as the humans can not sense rhythms Spoiler Rlain notes that sometimes the Bridgemen hoop or cheer to the sound of the Rhythms in Oathbringer Bronze Seekers can hear "a ripple of sound in the fabric of creation itself—the power of creation being used, creating a drum beat to those attuned to it", that's how Alendi and Vin were able to detect the Well of Ascension, the two might be the same phenomenon they are a Cosmere-wide phenomena, and are not restricted to the Singers Spoiler Quote Rasarr If you took a Parshendi... And they were born outside Roshar and never visited Roshar in their lives, would they hear the Rhythms beyond Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Would they hear the Rhythms beyond Roshar... If you took one that was not born on Roshar, would they feel the Rhythms off-Roshar or just Rhythms in general? Rasarr Rhythms in general. Brandon Sanderson Yes, they would sense them. Rasarr Even beyond Roshar? Brandon Sanderson What they are sensing... it's something that pervades the Cosmere but on Roshar has specific way of manifesting. Rasarr Is it the same thing that Soothers and Rioters are using? Brandon Sanderson Now you're straying into RAFO territory with your question/good question... Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017) Quote Questioner Music on Roshar... How, why is it important, I mean more a why-- Brandon Sanderson Why music? Music, the Rhythms you are speaking about specifically, or what? Questioner ...There seems to be a lot that connects to music, with like the Dawnsingers, there's lots of people hearing the Rhythms-- Brandon Sanderson It all comes from the Rhythms. That's all kind of interconnected. Questioner So they kind of hear where the Rhythms are originally coming from? Brandon Sanderson I'm not saying that. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Quote Ansalem1 Hypothetically, if all of the Listeners were to go extinct would the Rhythms still exist? Brandon Sanderson Yes. WeiryWriter Are there any other species in the cosmere that also interact with the Rhythms like the listeners do? (Though not necessarily in the same way?) Brandon Sanderson Yes. /r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 24, 2015) Quote Aethenoth Can an Allomantic bronze burner hear the Rhythms on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Yes, this is possible. General Signed Books 2016 (May 2, 2016) Quote Cadmium (paraphrased) Would a Connection medallion accurately interpret a listener's Rhythms? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, it would, but not all of it, some would be lost in translation. You'd probably lose some of the nuance. It would probably be better to give the medallion to someone who couldn't understand it than someone who spoke it. Calamity Houston signing (Feb. 24, 2016) Quote Questioner If a Parshendi were to attain Allomancy and burn Bronze, how would they feel about the Bronze pulses? Brandon Sanderson They would feel that they were somewhat familiar but a little odd. Skyward San Diego signing (Nov. 7, 2018) Quote Questioner (paraphrased) Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar. Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memoryBoskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017) Quote Questioner Would a Soother be able to affect a Listener attuning a Rhythm? Brandon Sanderson Yes, I think they would be able to. Questioner ...Would it dampen Odium's effect on them? Brandon Sanderson Potentially, yes. Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017) Edited November 20, 2019 by Honorless put the quotes in spoiler tag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 Interesting.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necessary Eagle Posted November 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 I don't think Listeners can pass as plausIbly human. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) On 11/19/2019 at 10:54 PM, Necessary Eagle said: I don't think Listeners can pass as plausIbly human. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: Humanform! Seriously though, I started thinking that it could've been a Lightweaving? Maybe like the more solid illusions that Shallan created in Thaylen City? Roshar isn't out of the running yet Edited February 6, 2020 by Honorless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) Perhaps it was a lifeless. Those are commercially available on Nalthis, easily transportable and with thousands of years to develop awakening you might be able to get them to talk once and a while. They are also REALLY good at faking death. Alternatively maybe one of them had a breath and another one of the ship members had a terminal illness or worst of all was actually murdered by his own cremates. Edited November 27, 2019 by Ookla the Prolific 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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