Mid-Range Game 1: The Stormfather and The Nightwatcher

[Ashiok]

I'm just saying that the mirroring of boons and curses favored the sharders immensely...

[Claincy]

I'm guessing you're referring mostly to Slaughter, but any kill item would've had that curse, regardless of who asked for it. You get the item,so now you can kill people, but someone on your team dies every time you use it.  Admittedly, it's best held in the hands of the Seventeenth Shard, but every time Gamma used it, he was wrecking his chances of winning with the Merchants, if anything had happened to the Sharders.

In that case, the rule for the killing item is fundamentally broken for this game. Don't get me wrong here, I actually really like the idea of having to sacrifice one of your team-members to get a kill but in this game it is horribly unbalanced.

 

Let's compare what it can do for a sharder with what it can do for a none sharder. For a non-sharder it can be used to kill an enemy at a heavy cost. In another game you might have a good chance at guessing who on your team and the opposing team had important roles so that you would have a reasonably good chance of hitting someone more valuable on their team than whoever you killed on your own team. But due to the extreme difficulty of gathering information and making deductions in this game the odds of the net benefit being in your favour are very close to even. So a non-sharder could only really use it when they really wanted someone dead.

 

 

 Admittedly, it's best held in the hands of the Seventeenth Shard, but every time Gamma used it, he was wrecking his chances of winning with the Merchants, if anything had happened to the Sharders.

If he was wrecking his chances of winning with that faction please keep in mind that it is just as serious for non-sharders and they don't have a second faction to still have a chance with afterwoulds.

 

Now let us consider it in the hands of a sharder. They can use it exactly as the non-sharders can with the same benefits and disadvantages but significantly better as they still have a faction to win with. But they can also use it once they have decided which faction they has the better chance of winning. When that happens they are getting 2 kills every round. On top of that, due to the lack of information in the game (yeah here we are again) it is very difficult for anyone to work out who is making the kills to stop them. If they knew that they had to be from one of the factions they were killing that could help the members of that faction work out who it is, but nobody else would have a clue and if the GB in the faction starts killing off his own faction to try to kill the blade-wielding sharder the faction is going to run out of members in no time flat.

 

Basically it can be a somewhat useful but highly risky tool for a non-sharder but it's an incredibly potent, almost game-breaking tool for a sharder.

 

I like the idea alright, but in my opinion it just doesn't work well for this game.

 

I know I keep talking about the problems, sorry about that. But that is what seems the most useful.

A problem or imbalance that is never mentioned is unlikely to get fixed and quite likely to happen again.

[Sir Jerric]

The only way I can see a non-sharder getting a particular advantage out of a sacrifice-kill weapon is by having the user conspire with their faction's Shamed Guard to slam the sharders or other faction with one instant and two single kills at once. That way the sacrifice has additional functionality.

 

The transfer of alligence is still an odd one. Not knowing about the symmetry, one would do as Rengar did, trying to steal a member from the winning team to offset their advantage. And now the user is part of the winning team, and has personally gained from the curse if the status quo doesn't change.

 

And know that people know about the symmetry, people are going to be inclined to use it for the "curse" and move themselves onto what they see as the winning team, swapping with the player that they know is a current target of a Ghostblood attack or whatever. That could get really messy if this game is run again.

[little wilson]

I've essentially already said everything I can in regard to the boons and curses. The only one that I see as imbalanced in favor of the Sharders was Slaughter, and that's for most of the reasons Claincy states. I think kill items should have a high cost, but the cost wasn't balanced between the factions, since it cost a Sharder holding the weapon less than it would've cost a non-Sharder holding the weapon.

 

The rest of them we will have to agree to disagree on, as I think they were balanced very well, and if the game were played again, things would work out very differently, even with those same boons and those same curses.

 

It appears that the downsides from those curses were bad because of the current situations that played out in the game. But ANYBODY could have asked for a kill weapon that would have had similar repercussions. For your boon you asked to kill somebody specifically. So in response, you died.
From how Wilson worded it, whoever would have asked for the same boon "Kill X player", then they would have died too, I'm assuming.

 

Not quite. It's more if you ask for a specific person to die, you'll get that, but you also just killed a member of your team. Very rarely would the Nightwatcher kill the person asking for the boon. It's about punishing them in other ways. The reason Ash died wasn't because of the Nightwatcher. It was because his time was up--he was a Voidbringer who'd been hit the day before.

[Sir Jerric]

If this game was run again, I'd be interested in playing again, if only to try harder to get my boon granted. I am even more curious to see how you'd curse me. =)

[Rubix]

I'm guessing you're referring mostly to Slaughter, but any kill item would've had that curse, regardless of who asked for it. You get the item,so now you can kill people, but someone on your team dies every time you use it.  Admittedly, it's best held in the hands of the Seventeenth Shard, but every time Gamma used it, he was wrecking his chances of winning with the Merchants, if anything had happened to the Sharders.

In that case, the rule for the killing item is fundamentally broken for this game. Don't get me wrong here, I actually really like the idea of having to sacrifice one of your team-members to get a kill but in this game it is horribly unbalanced.

That's actually not the case at all, but seeing as Wilson wasn't making the decisions, yes, let's jump on to what she's said immediately.

 

Admittedly, it's best held in the hands of the Seventeenth Shard, but every time Gamma used it, he was wrecking his chances of winning with the Merchants, if anything had happened to the Sharders.

If he was wrecking his chances of winning with that faction please keep in mind that it is just as serious for non-sharders and they don't have a second faction to still have a chance with afterwoulds.

The curses were all decided (along with how the prayer was granted), on an individual basis. Gamma asked for a boon, and he got it, so things were actually balanced in Gamma's favor, not that of one of his factions. He could have JUST AS EASILY fed the sharders to the sword, and they actually could have done LESS to stop the thing. Not ONE PERSON asked for the thing to be taken away from him. He could have been stopped, but no one came forward to try to do so.

 

A problem or imbalance that is never mentioned is unlikely to get fixed and quite likely to happen again.

Problems like people being passive aggressive in white text? This could have been in black text, and contributed to your post, but you chose instead to hide it. By all means, feel free to PM me and let me know why you feel the need to do this so consistently.

[Mailliw73]

Rubix, when do you plan to reveal the docs and info?

[Claincy]

That's actually not the case at all, but seeing as Wilson wasn't making the decisions, yes, let's jump on to what she's said immediately.

She gave no indication that she didn't know for certain how the curses and boons were being decided. Given no evidence to the contrary it was a logical conclusion that, as she had been helping run the game, she was aware how this was working. I apologize if you are interpreting my posts as an attack rather than a discussion of the rules and some of the aspects of them that could be improved upon.

 

 

The curses were all decided (along with how the prayer was granted), on an individual basis. Gamma asked for a boon, and he got it, so things were actually balanced in Gamma's favor, not that of one of his factions. He could have JUST AS EASILY fed the sharders to the sword, and they actually could have done LESS to stop the thing. Not ONE PERSON asked for the thing to be taken away from him. He could have been stopped, but no one came forward to try to do so.

You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying as I made no distinction between him using the merchants or the sharders to fuel the sword. My point was about how powerful it was in the hands of an individual sharder compared to an individual merchant/darkeyes/lighteyes. You are arguing against something I never disagreed with. Several posts back when I mentioned the sharders as a faction I was speaking in the context of how this specific game played out.

 

I wouldn't have guessed that you would grant a boon that was to remove a killing weapon that I didn't know what was, from a person that I didn't know who was So naturally I didn't ask and I suspect others didn't ask for similar reasons. It never really occurred to me that you might grant a blessing that directly removed someone else's blessing. *shrug*

 

 

 

Problems like people being passive aggressive in white text? This could have been in black text, and contributed to your post, but you chose instead to hide it. By all means, feel free to PM me and let me know why you feel the need to do this so consistently.

Putting that particular line in white text, and the line in my previous post was a mistake, so yes it was good that you mentioned it.

[Mailliw73]

This game was very enjoyable, but as always, there were things that not everyone enjoyed or could be improved on. This happens every game. This one was also a trend-setter for this type of game. Each one so far has been. Game 1 was the original. Game 2, Meta turned everything on its head and the inquisitor was the first type of game with a single powerful bad guy. Game 3 expanded on Game 1 and explored the roles more. Game 4 gave everyone a chance to earn powers. Game 5 began the items and passable powers. Game 6 has two evil teams. QF1 was the original Quick Fix game. This one was the first in which there were docs for everyone and four factions opposing each other.

Each game has had problems as well. Some notable ones are UberTin in Game 2 and the Shardhammer in Game 5. This one, the Nightwatcher was one of those things. I enjoyed the feature added to the game, but also think that there should've been some restrictions to her power. The GM has always had to deal with these issues and should do so considerately.

Rubix, good job in running this game and coming up with it. It had to have taken hours and hours out of your time and for that, I appreciate your work that went into it. Thanks.

[little wilson]

And that's a wrap, everyone! I know there are still a few open questions, but Rubix will take care of them. For now, I want to thank you all for playing.

If you'd like to try your own hand at running a game, whether it be a Quick Fix, Mid-Range, or a Long Game, feel free to contact Gamma, Meta, or me. We'll get you added to the list, and we'll also be perfectly willing to help out in any way we can.

You can also ask questions and get some hints and feedback from everyone over here in our Art of Game Creation thread.

Game 6 is already in progress, if you'd like to just watch: Game 6: Daes Dae'Mar: The Great Game

 

And if you're ready to join in the lying, manipulation, and fun yourself, sign ups are going for Quick Fix 3: Crushthroat's Beginnings