SzethIsBadAsHell

Why did Hoid tell Dalinar about Adonalsium

19 posts in this topic

During TWoK Wit and Dalinar are Having a conversation . During wich Wit casually drops the name Adonalsium . Dalinar has no idea what Wit was talking about . We as readers do . But why does Wit wonder if Dalinar does ??? 

         This conversation is very important and I have two separate theories as to why it took place . One this conversation gave me Hoids plan to put Adonalsium. Back together and I wanted to see if everyone saw it how I did . 

        Secondly why did he say it to Dalinar ? I think Hoid/Wit perceived with his Hoidsense that Dalinar would soon ascend to be in possession of a Shard . He wanted to see if Dalinar knew anything about it . How shards are splineterec and such. I think he wanted to see when he got ready to put his plan into action he wondered if Dalinar would help him. 

        Dalinar was clueless so Wit prattled on and played simpleton. And moved on .

      I managed to copy and paste the conversation . I do not post from a computer . I post on my phone so it’s very hard for me to get the clip exactly right . But everything I have clipped you will need to read anyways if you want to form a theory .

     So does anyone agree with me ? Does Wit want to put them back together?

 

“Winds are changing,” Wit whispered.
Dalinar glanced at him.
Wit’s eyes narrowed, and he scanned the night sky. “It’s been happening for months now. A whirlwind. Shifting and churning, blowing us round and around. Like a world spinning, but we can’t see it because we’re too much a part of it.”
“World spinning. What foolishness is this?”
“The foolishness of men who care, Dalinar,” Wit said. “And the brilliance of those who do not. The second depend on the first—but also exploit the first—while the first misunderstand the second, hoping that the second are more like the first. And all of their games steal our time. Second by second.”
“Wit,” Dalinar said with a sigh. “I haven’t the mind for this tonight. I’m sorry if I’m missing your intent, but I have no idea what you mean.”
“I know,” Wit said, then looked directly at him. “Adonalsium.”
Dalinar frowned more deeply. “What?”
Wit searched his face. “Have you ever heard the term, Dalinar?”
“Ado … what?”
“Nothing,” Wit said. He seemed preoccupied, unlike his usual self. “Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn’t it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched[…]”

Excerpt From
The Way of Kings
Brandon Sanderson
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-way-of-kings/id376229549
This material may be protected by copyright.

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An answer from the man himself:

Quote

Questioner

When Hoid is talking to Dalinar he seems to expect that Dalinar may have heard of Adonalsium.

Brandon Sanderson

Adonalsium.  Yes.

Questioner

Why is that?  Why would he think that Dalinar would have knowledge about that?

Brandon Sanderson

He thought that Dalinar was part of some of the secret societies on Roshar, and he had thought his way into thinking Dalinar was part of them and that was how Dalinar was knowing certain things he was knowing.  Which he really wasn't, he was getting from the storms and things like this, but he thought that Gavilar had confided things in Dalinar and that Dalinar would know more about this.  And so he was kind of testing to see, and he was wrong.  

Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014)

 

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I think that Hoid might have sensed that dalinar has become a potential bondsmith of stormfather and thus a potential vessel for honor. Also, we know that Gavilar was very Cosmere aware at the time of his death. So, I think he was testing dalinar to see just how much Gavilar had confided in him.. if he too was part of sons of honor..

He had also heard about his visions during the storms and probably knew they are from Honor and was thus curious to see if dalinar has learnt anything about Adonalsium during these visions!

Edited by The traveller
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@Elegy I love that WOB. It's one of my favorites because it manages to solve a mystery while adding even more details to the characters of Hoid and Gavilar. I think the prologue in stormlight 5 will really bring that arc to an interesting conclusion because we still don't quite know just what Gavilar knew and who he was cavorting with. Hoid obviously knew...

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8 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Secondly why did he say it to Dalinar ? I think Hoid/Wit perceived with his Hoidsense that Dalinar would soon ascend to be in possession of a Shard

I agree. What really interest me here, though, is how far Hoid's future sight can go now. He used Fortune before, but now he's a Mistborn (WoB), and possibly has access to Feruchemy (he tried to figure it out and definitely has access to unkeyed metalminds). Can he compound Fortune now? Is his more active attitude on Roshar (and, to a lesser extent, during Mistborn Era 2) somehow connected to this?

Edited by KandraAllomancer
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8 hours ago, Elegy said:

An answer from the man himself:

 

Thx , I don’t read WoB unless they are posted. In a forum . I like to try and figure out what happens on my own then if someone has seen a WoB they can confirm or deny my theory . It’s more fun for me that way . Reading a WoB is like looking at a cheat sheet while taking a test for me

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41 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

I agree. What really interest me here, though, is how far Hoid's future sight can go now. He used Fortune before, but now he's a Mistborn (WoB), and possibly has access to Feruchemy (he tried to figure it out and definitely has access to unkeyed metalminds). Can he compound Fortune now? Is his more active on Roshar (and, to a lesser extent, during Mistborn Era 2) somehow connected to this?

I don't think tapping fortune feruchemically gives future sight.  To the best of my knowledge it just brings people closer to you like in serendipitous meetings.

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2 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't think tapping fortune feruchemically gives future sight.  To the best of my knowledge it just brings people closer to you like in serendipitous meetings.

It definitely gives you some knowledge:

Quote

Xyrd (paraphrased)

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

Xyrd (paraphrased)

Is chromium involved in that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)

Also, per this WoB, atium foreshadows Fortune

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18 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't think tapping fortune feruchemically gives future sight.  To the best of my knowledge it just brings people closer to you like in serendipitous meetings.

Spoiler

I don't think it really grants "future sight" either, but it's definitely more than that. 

Spoiler

TearablePuns

Can a person compounding Luck defeat a Mistborn burning atium?

Brandon Sanderson

*Hesitantly* Yes. That is theoretically possible. I would say the emphasis on, "Could there?" But it is plausible that that could get around it.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)
Spoiler

 

As a feruchemical trait, it needs to be something that humans have inherently and can be stored. 

Considering the nature of "fortune" I think it's people's inherent ability to judge probability. Literally everything that we do is based on our ability to judge the outcome. While storing, you'd have exceptionally bad judgment, and it could appear to be "bad luck" to an outside observer. Tap, and the right movements/choices/outcomes become intuitively clear. If everything you do suddenly just works, and even you don't understand why, it would be looked at as making you "lucky." 

It also pans out well for Hemalurgy stealing "destiny" as working with that trait. If implanting a spike with "destiny" made you function as if you had a person's normal level of fortune stacked in top of yours, then you would seem to suddenly be "destined for greatness." it's not "luck" when it's consistent.

 

 

13 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

It definitely gives you some knowledge:

Also, per this WoB, atium foreshadows Fortune

Spoiler

The same underlying mechanic can work in a variety of ways. I don't think it provides any actual knowledge, because it wouldn't be viewed as "luck" if it was something you knew. 

Edit: edited my whole post into spoilers for Mistborn, because I didn't realize which forum this was in. 

Edited by Calderis
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9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Considering the nature of "fortune" I think it's people's inherent ability to judge probability. Literally everything that we do is based on our ability to judge the outcome. While storing, you'd have exceptionally bad judgment, and it could appear to be "bad luck" to an outside observer. Tap, and the right movements/choices/outcomes become intuitively clear. If everything you do suddenly just works, and even you don't understand why, it would be looked at as making you "lucky." 

Yeah, that sounds right. It would be interesting to know if tapping near-infinite Fortune affects Lightweaving though...

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40 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

It definitely gives you some knowledge:

I did not say it did not.  I meant it does not tell you things in a meaningful way.  IE Kaladin knowing he needs to get to Dalinar.  Azure says "tide of fortune" Kaladin can't explain why he needs to get to Dalinar.  He just knows that it is important that he does so.  Under this theory.  If you were to tap fortune in a crowded marketplace certain people would pop up as important.  You would have no real understanding of what makes them so important but you would know that you have to talk to that guy on the left.

Edited by Karger
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Which of the secret societies on Roshar know of Adonalsium?

The Ghostbloods - high chance (except local operatives)

The Skybreakers - high chance (but all the members wouldn't be in on it)

The Envisagers - unlikely

The Sons of Honor - didn't previously, information distribution among members unknown, current status unknown

The Veristitalians - unknown, possibly aware of the name and that it has some significance

The Diagram - low probability

The Worldsingers - aside from Hoid, unlikely

The Aimians - unknown, some members probably aware given the sheer scale of their information network

Other Worldhoppers - Khriss & Nazh (yes), 17th Shard (yes), Hoid/Wit (yes), Felt (unknown), Vasher/Zahel (unknown), Vivenna/Auzure (unknown), the Ire and its affiliates (yes), 

The other Heralds - some knew of Adonalsium, some didn't

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1 hour ago, Honorless said:

The Sons of Honor - didn't previously, information distribution among members unknown, current status unknown

I think Gavilar might have come across his name but I doubt he knew much.. 

and I would think that all heralds were aware of Adonalsium. Ash who is the youngest says “Oh god Oh Adonalsium” then others would know too right? Is there any wob that suggests otherwise? 
also don’t forget stone shamans in shinovar and do you think they know of Adonalsium- I would think so.

 

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6 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Thx , I don’t read WoB unless they are posted. In a forum . I like to try and figure out what happens on my own then if someone has seen a WoB they can confirm or deny my theory . It’s more fun for me that way . Reading a WoB is like looking at a cheat sheet while taking a test for me

You can always look for the WoBs after you've formed your theory, to confirm or deny it :)

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34 minutes ago, The traveller said:

I think Gavilar might have come across his name but I doubt he knew much.. 

and I would think that all heralds were aware of Adonalsium. Ash who is the youngest says “Oh god Oh Adonalsium” then others would know too right? Is there any wob that suggests otherwise? 
also don’t forget stone shamans in shinovar and do you think they know of Adonalsium- I would think so.

 

Some of them are more Cosmere aware than others:

Quote

Maximus (paraphrased)

None of the Heralds mention or address the Almighty in the opening scene of [The Way of Kings]; it's a little strange, considering they are his champions. Have they seen or spoken to the Almighty?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, the Heralds have spoken with the Almighty. They also feel that what has been done to them is partially his fault. They are all broken in some way and aren't really honorable anymore.

Maximus (paraphrased)

Was that how and why the deal with Odium showed up?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)
Quote

Questioner

Do the Heralds know about Aons? I am asking specifically about Shalash. Shao, Ale, Ashe. Transformation, Beauty, Illumination.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's say that some of them do and some of them don't. The question is "do the Heralds know about Aons?" How cosmere-aware are the Heralds? It depends on the Herald.

Skyward Anchorage signing (Nov. 12, 2018)
Quote

"the madness of nine become mine, ah Almighty, release me"

the use of the title "Almighty" might imply that Taln is less Cosmere aware or possibly that he still chooses to believe in Honor

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1 hour ago, RShara said:

You can always look for the WoBs after you've formed your theory, to confirm or deny it :)

Good point . While I love the idea that Brandon does this and answers so many questions . I get so much enjoyment by coming up with my theories . Being wrong never bothers me. I enjoy discussing them . It gives me something to do until the next books come out. Now they are so many of them that I doubt I will ever come up . And people hardly ask the questions I’m interested in. When they do it’s RAFO 9 times out of 10. I respect your knowledge of them tho! I have been debating on whether I should read white sand 3 

Spoiler

Does it anything Cosmere about autonomy in it ? If so I’ll buy it . But I didn’t much like the first two so I didn’t want to waste money unless it gave me some insight into that Shard . The first two didn’t and I was so disappointed since Khriss was in it . I expected lots of goodies and got little?

 

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3 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I have been debating on whether I should read white sand 3 

  Hide contents

Does it anything Cosmere about autonomy in it ? If so I’ll buy it . But I didn’t much like the first two so I didn’t want to waste money unless it gave me some insight into that Shard . The first two didn’t and I was so disappointed since Khriss was in it . I expected lots of goodies and got little?

In that case, honestly, you can skip it. Mind that White Sand was a story he wrote when he was still developing the basic ideas of the Cosmere, and at that time he didn't want the connections to be too present (that's why Elantris doesn't have a lot of them as well). There have been some changes to the story, but none of those make it any more Cosmere-centric.

He sends download links to the original prose version in his website's newsletter subscription validation mail, so if you're still interested but don't want to spend money on it, you can still read that one. As I said, a few things have been changed, but it's largely still the same.

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23 minutes ago, Elegy said:

In that case, honestly, you can skip it. Mind that White Sand was a story he wrote when he was still developing the basic ideas of the Cosmere, and at that time he didn't want the connections to be too present (that's why Elantris doesn't have a lot of them as well). There have been some changes to the story, but none of those make it any more Cosmere-centric.

He sends download links to the original prose version in his website's newsletter subscription validation mail, so if you're still interested but don't want to spend money on it, you can still read that one. As I said, a few things have been changed, but it's largely still the same.

On the other hand, there are plans to continue this story beyond the prose in sequel GNs on Darkside. 

Personally, the third was by far the best in both story clarity, and Art. 

I don't own any of the GN. I read all thee on the day of their release through an app called Hoopla that works with public libraries. No charge. The digital copies are still paid for. And I got to read the story. I highly recommend this option if it's available with your local library. 

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51 minutes ago, Calderis said:

don't own any of the GN. I read all thee on the day of their release through an app called Hoopla that works with public libraries. No charge. The digital copies are still paid for. And I got to read the story. I highly recommend this option if it's available with your local library. 

Thanks I will definantly check that out !

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