Most Powerful Knight's Radiant Order?

[Sun]

What order would win a KR civil war? Which order is the most powerful and influential on their own given the presented abilities and information so far?

[Shardmancer]

Well it seems the Bondsmiths bond to the most powerful Spren and there are the fewest of them.. As per WOB than can do some pretty cool stuff.. If not Elsecallers are pretty cool cause than can just soulcast people into nothing and just dip out.

[Moogle]

We really don't know enough. That said, Elsecallers. Can't catch them, but they can catch you and kill you from range. Turn the air in your lungs to poison, drop you into a huge pit, Soulcast a small part of your food into uranium... there's a lot Soulcasting can do.

[AerionBFII]

I always thought they would be pretty even, it would depend more on the person and who's bond is stronger...

[maxal]

I voted for Dustbringers because, from what we know, they bring havoc on a battle field. They probably are very hard to beat. My second vote would go for the Windrunners as they seem powerful enough plus they have many squires.

[PorridgeBrick]

KR power really depends upon the opponent. An Elsecaller will beat any single opponent in an instant, but stack on enough mooks and they're out of gems and Stormlight. Stonewards are wonderful against anyone who tends to fight physically– large numbers of Thunderclasts, humans, Chasmfiends, they can rip apart with no chance of physical harm to themselves, but add a single energy weapon (laser) or magical equipment (Shards) into the equation and all their abilities are useless. Windrunners, actually, seem a little more flexible, not as specialized for one kind of fight but pretty good against most opponents. In your specific case of a KR civil war, I'd put my money on Windrunners. They don't have the instant win buttons of Elsecallers, but I think their numbers should win out, and there's a good chance Plate will block the death rays.

[signspace13]

Well I don't think you could soulcast an invested radiant just like magic can't affeft other invested objects, so yes the soulcasting orders would wreck in a battle against ordinary people but against other radiants I think it would be more interesting.

[Aleksiel]

Who would win a KR civil war? Probably Odium.

[BreathTaker]

I think that's a win right there.

[Chrono]

We really don't know about the KR orders enough to answer this. Honestly, any one of them could be taken down by the other as long as one has more Stormlight. But, for my answer I choose...

 

Hoid.

 

More seriously, Dustbringers. They can blow stuff up with their minds, judging on the stuff I've seen. Elsecallers do seem to be at an advantage, but Soulcasting is supposed to be extremely dangerous. Look at when Shallan tried it. It took her five minutes, she nearly fell into Shadesmar, and she still couldn't do it. I'm reasonably sure that Elsecallers do not have an Insta-Kill button quite like that.

[High prince of geeks]

I chose skybreakers because not only do the have the gravity control that make's sezth and kalladin so dangerous. AS well as a yet fully defined surge called division that sounds pretty epic.

[ADIMORTIS]

I'll go with Skybreakers. Gravity and division. seems like a lethal combination

[cem]

As far as direct asskicking capabilities go, Skybreakers. They're like Windrunners, only they have Division, which sounds cool, instead of the (so far) useless Adhesion. Overall, though, definitely Elsecallers. They can go anywhere they want and create anything they want at will.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

How much Stormlight does Soulcasting use? IIRC Jasnah broke a large gemstone just Soulcasting a rock. If all the Knights had the same amount of Stormlight the Elsecaller would runout without having done that much damage. In terms of Stormlight consumption, I believe that a Edgedancer would definately be up there. Progression would surely be more efficient at Healing than Stormlight, then just slipperdy slide all over the place waving their Blade around and just outlast everyone else. Without seeing Cohesion, Tension or Division. ( Probably the most powerful ) I don't think the other Surges have the Stormlight efficiency.

[DeployParachute]

Disregarding non-Surge related factors like number and power level of squires etc, I also chose Skybreakers partly for the reasons others have already pointed out.  Mainly, I feel they would certainly have an edge over Windrunners, as I find Adhesion to not be a very combat effective Surge.  Kaladin himself seems to have doubts about it's usefulness to him while training with it down in the chasm.  I am, however, still holding out hope that Brandon's vast capacity for imagination will show us some ways for Adhesion to live up to every standard of awesome that people seem to think Division will have.

[Galladon]

I say windrunners, because they seem like the hands on kinda groupe (large in number due to squires) and I have the feeling that soulcasting and devision might not easily be done on other KR. I know - the blood of Shallan was soulcast, but still something gives me the feeling that there might be limitations, eg. Syl defending Kal in Shadesmare, etc..

otherwise it really would be an easy fight: gather stormlight -> get informants to locate enemies, while waiting in shadesmare-> travel to targets-> find the bead for that persons blood (or however)-> smile victoriously

[vikorr]

I believe the poll was 'who would win a KR civil war?'

 

As you can't affect someone who is invested, soulcasting would be almost useless in direct combat. In fact, any ability that directly affected other beings would be almost useless in direct combat...just indirectly.

 

Then there's the questions of

- 'how much stormlight does each orders abilities take'? (endurance)

- how much damage can they do in a short period of time (damage output)

- how much damage can they take (healers would shine here)

 

It's almost like a MMORPG.

[kaellok]

In a KR civil war, there would be no winners, only losers.

[Galladon]

In a KR civil war, there would be no winners, only losers.

thats profound  .

 

 

As you can't affect someone who is invested, soulcasting would be almost useless in direct combat. In fact, any ability that directly affected other beings would be almost useless in direct combat...just indirectly.

I wasn't sure about that, good thing you confirmed it, thanks.

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

Still, anyone would be lost if the air they were in were suddenly transformed into a 40 foot by 40 foot block of solid granite.  Doubly so if they were flying at the time......

[Endurant Archivist]

The point of the KR is to balance each other out. 1 vs 1, each could have incredibly inventive ways of beating the other. Adhesion could be used to stick multiple objects/people to a stone that is sent zipping across a battlefield. Or gluing two objects together around an opponent that couldn't be surge bound. By the same token, every surge would have its own "inventive" positive side. It would depend most on who was fighting who.

 

Personally, I am a fan of the Windrunners & Skybreakers. Currently (subject to change on further reading/re-reading) I choose windrunners. We know the most about them in action through Kaladin, who has kicked butt, repeatedly, against every opponent. 

[Necromancer]

What order would win a KR civil war? 

 

I don't know the answer to this question specifically, but I think I can answer which order would be of the most benefit in a civil war.

 

Lighweavers could fabricate an entire army and cause retreats or hide an army in a guise of bushes so they can attack the enemy from the unguarded side. You would need a bunch and other people to actually fight, but they would really help an army.

[Pechvarry]

As you can't affect someone who is invested, soulcasting would be almost useless in direct combat. In fact, any ability that directly affected other beings would be almost useless in direct combat...just indirectly.

I need to chime in, here. This is NOT a proven and infallible rule. Shallan has been soulcast on, as was mentioned earlier, but she wasn't holding stormlight at the time either. The big thing is, while we know Investiture blocks Investiture, we don't know enough about how the effects interact. Example: in Mistborn, a Thug can be Rioted just fine (though we know that's a low-investiture system, that goes for both sides of my example).

I'm not saying you're wrong -- you're likely correct. But we can't be sure yet.

[11thorderknight]

I think "powerful" totally depends on the context. It's why the whole Knights Radiant surgebinding system is such a great one from a worldbuilding point of view - no one individual can have all ten abilities. It's different from a lot of fantasy (even mistborn) where a main character discovers they're a super-archmage that can do all of the world's magic and be super-badass.

 

That said, from a fighting standpoint, the Windrunners and Skybreakers would probably win out for their ability to fly and generally move about very quickly. I agree we haven't seen much use for Adhesion yet, but I'm not discounting it entirely - it seems like it's based on pressure, and that pressure wave that Kaladin did in Way of Kings would be very useful if he learned to control it. Also, we haven't yet seen Division work, so we don't know how useful it actually is. 

 

On the other hand, some of the other surges are far more generally useful. Progression not only allows regrowth, but it lets you grow plants (maybe even animals?) instantaneously. You might even be able to shape the plants as you grow, and grow an entire house made out of a giant tree, for instance. Pretty cool. Soulcasting is obviously extremely useful and versatile. And I'm imagining Cohesion to allow you to basically shape things with your mind as if they were made out of clay, also incredibly useful on a world made mostly out of solid stone.

 

Transportation is sort of a wildcard at the moment - we know it allows teleportation, but we also know there are limits to its accuracy. Until we know more, we don't really know how useful and/or practical it might be.

[Pathfinder]

So random thought I just had. If fabrials mimic/replicate surges, then could the pain fabrial that Navani used on Adolin possibly be one of the surges we don't know about? That one of the orders perhaps desensitize or amply pain/sensation?