Is Renarin using the void of illumination or a combination of the surge and void of illumination?

[Calderis]

7 minutes ago, The traveller said:

May be he is doing something new entirely.. that has been said too in the books.. we are something new.. it may be some weird mix of the two systems.. 

There has to be a reason why odium can not see him.. He can see all other normal surgebinders, he would obviously see all voidbinders but if Renarin is something new entirely....

That has a much much simpler explanation. 

For one thing, Odium is aware of Glys. 

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Questioner

Does Odium know about Glys?

Brandon Sanderson

Who? Oh, Glys. *sighs* Yes, he does. But.

Skyward Atlanta signing (Nov. 17, 2018)

The hole in odium's "Diagram" is something we've seen elsewhere. 

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Questioner

So the scene at the end of Oathbringer, when Odium is confronting Taravangian and he uses futuresight to expand upon the Diagram, we have this blacked out section with Renarin's name linked to it.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is that because Renarin's abilities interfere with Odium's futuresight similar to how electrum interferes with atium?

Brandon Sanderson

Any time that someone else is seeing the future in the cosmere, it's going to have ripples against your ability. Like they are-- you can't-- It's the same sort of thing that if-- someone who has access to atium is going to mess up anyone else's futuresight in any way, because once you use that it's going to cause you to act differently, which then-- And remember futuresight is not very good in the cosmere anyway. But yeah, it's just gonna mess things up.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

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The Young Pyromancer

Is the reason Renarin's name is greyed out due to a conflict of Fortune with Odium, similar to [an electrum] user fighting an atium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

 

[Aon Tia]

Yup I like that explanation.. makes a lot of sense.. thank you @Calderis

[Pathfinder]

20 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

I think they were some kind of large spren that were unmade into Odium's equivalent of godspren. I don't see any other spren that could bond with Voidbinding's equivalent of Bondsmiths. Possibly, the nine-shadowed Champion would count as Odium's Bondsmith

I guess where I get confused is the impression I got from you is that there are two orders of note (bondsmiths and truthwatchers) who have had their members in the past bonded corrupted spren. That this has occurred enough for it to be reflected in an in world artist's interpretation. Now you are saying the unmade are corrupted spren, but are bondsmith level spren because Odium made them that way? Again, feel free to reason that way, just personally that does not work for me. My personal theory is that truthwatchers as an order, normally cannot see the future. Potentially they can view things far away as a remote viewing. But Renarin is unique. That is my take. 

20 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

I still absolutely agree. To clarify my position - I think that during some periods of increased activity (we know of False Desolation and True Desolation), Sja-anat specifically targets and corrupts some number of Truthwatcher spren. Why these particular spren, I have no idea

The implication I got from the book is that Renarin and the Oathgates were new unique experiences that have never been done before. 

20 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

As for the quotes, "I worry about my fellow Truthwatchers." comes from other drawer (8-21) than the rest you mentioned (30-20). I see this as two independent accounts of something wrong happening to the Truthwatchers

So if they are two independent accounts, then one should not affect the other in my interpretation. 

[KandraAllomancer]

2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Now you are saying the unmade are corrupted spren, but are bondsmith level spren because Odium made them that way

If you are a Shard, you can probably add enough Investiture and Connection to a spren to create your own godspren. Or so I assume. Otherwise I don't see any candidates, and the Voidbinding chart indicates that some Bondsmiths equivalent exists

2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

My personal theory is that truthwatchers as an order, normally cannot see the future. Potentially they can view things far away as a remote viewing. But Renarin is unique. That is my take. 

The only thing I would disagree with is Renarin's uniqueness

[Calderis]

On that note, I personally think that all of the Unmade would qualify as Bondsmith spren.

We know that they can be bonded. 

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Questioner

Can the Unmade be bonded?

Brandon Sanderson

Wow, plausible... Yes, or possible, I should say.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

And we know that talk if increasing the number of Bondsmiths was not seen as impossible, but "seditious."

The Unmade seem like good candidates to me. And frankly speaking... I want a Sja-anat Bondsmith. 

[Pathfinder]

32 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

The only thing I would disagree with is Renarin's uniqueness

Then I wish you luck with your theory! I'll still cling to mine till we find out more lol. 

[KandraAllomancer]

8 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Then I wish you luck with your theory! I'll still cling to mine till we find out more lol. 

Likewise

[sonwarrior01]

Posting a bit late to the party, but I've had this theory I've wanted feedback on. 

"Corrupted" from my understanding refers to something that still resembles what it once was. Thus, Glys would still be like a normal Truthwatcher spren but noticeably different. 

Now if the Truthwatcher resonance was seeing things happening in the present in a way similar to Renarin's visions, then a corrupted Illumination surge (like a voidbinding working) would produce a corrupted Resonance that would allow/force future sight. 

[Honorless]

On 11/13/2019 at 9:03 AM, Calderis said:

What? I'd like some examples, because to my knowledge, that's in no way a common thing. He RAFO's or he doesn't. He doesn't just shrug off and ignore questions and end with implicit confirmations precisely because of stuff like this.

Yes he has RAFO'd the question on Renarin since. And in his own words, sometimes RAFO is because he doesn't want to kill discussion. In this case, we're having that discussion, and it only exists because the waters have been muddied. 

Which is a problem that he has intentionally created before. Look no further tha. "The Man who calls himself Taln." he created an issue via WoB that never existed in the story, and actually made the blade swap in the books make no sense. 

But people talked about it. A lot. 

Oh my god, there's no way I'm going hunting for those WoBs, sorry, but iirc he responded that way to some Nightwatcher question and Shard speculations

[Ixthos]

On 11/17/2019 at 0:58 AM, sonwarrior01 said:

Posting a bit late to the party, but I've had this theory I've wanted feedback on. 

"Corrupted" from my understanding refers to something that still resembles what it once was. Thus, Glys would still be like a normal Truthwatcher spren but noticeably different. 

Now if the Truthwatcher resonance was seeing things happening in the present in a way similar to Renarin's visions, then a corrupted Illumination surge (like a voidbinding working) would produce a corrupted Resonance that would allow/force future sight. 

And late to responding, sorry. I think that is the most commonly held belief as to what is happening, with progression and illumination tying together to see (illumination) the future (progression) or how things might be, but I would like to posit a different but related idea, and one that has slowly been brewing since I posted this topic: the reason the power is said to be related to voidbinding isn't because seeing the future is from the voidbinding of Illumination, but rather because the excess power Renarin has access to - like Kaladin has access to, allowing him to use pressure to push back the storm - is attempting to allow him to use illumination to see the future, but the corrupted nature of Glys means the power is being contaminated by the void of illumination. To rephrase, Truthwatchers CAN see the future if Honour isn't restricting them (as Nale said that Honour limited the power of the Radiants), and Renarin's powers are geared towards doing that, but he can't distinguish between the surge of illumination and the void of illumination, and so the one is interfering with the other, preventing him from using either properly. Thus the problem is from normal Truthwatcher future sight - which, unless the other Radiant also had a corrupted Truthwatcher spren, is a normal part of their powers, but one they don't know about, much like Kaladin and Syl with using pressure to blow - is being interfered with by voidbinding illumination. What Renarin is doing is a mixture of the two, and as he gains further skill he will be able to seperate the two.

 

Of course it is possible that this is wrong and future sight is entirely a power of Odium, but Truthwatchers have a strong connection to Cultivation, and she also has future sight. This is only stated as a possibility. If the void of illumination is related to the future, then perhaps it somehow ties into shaping the future, rather than seeing it. Or it is the source for future sight of corrupted spren that grant the void of illumination, but that still doesn't explain the Truthwatcher who seemed to have seen the future - and that is very strongly implied to be what that Truthwatcher meant, rather than a statement of a general belief, or else why would he have been ashamed and hidden the reference to knowing something that the culture said was of Odium?