not an Evil Librarian Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 How would objects such as the sun, moon(s), and other stars be viewed in Shadesmar? The cognitive realm has an unusual sun-like thing, but this seems more like a uniform thing across the entire realm rather than a perception of something. (then again, maybe every planet in the cosmere has a similar perception of their solar system's star.) Also, there seem to be no moons in shadesmar and I doubt that the sun would show up differently than the moons. Are there just random spheres hanging out in the space between planets? Or would they be landmasses? Extra big spheres maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthos Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, not an Evil Librarian said: How would objects such as the sun, moon(s), and other stars be viewed in Shadesmar? The cognitive realm has an unusual sun-like thing, but this seems more like a uniform thing across the entire realm rather than a perception of something. (then again, maybe every planet in the cosmere has a similar perception of their solar system's star.) Also, there seem to be no moons in shadesmar and I doubt that the sun would show up differently than the moons. Are there just random spheres hanging out in the space between planets? Or would they be landmasses? Extra big spheres maybe? [Edit] Just realised I didn't answer your question. Sorry about that. Karger below gave a very good quote detailing the basics, but I do want to note that I think the nexuses on Roshar might be to their moons. The real question is how do planets in the same system relate to one another when the different directions to walk in Shadesmar all correspond to different planets. Original: Spoiler I think they are both the representation of the system's star, as well as representing the spiritual realm (I remember reading a theory about that a while back but can't recall where, so I didn't come up with this interpretation, but it is one I think is the case). Basically a star is, with few exceptions, such as the bottom of the ocean, the source of life on a planet, and almost all cultures would probably see it as such, so the cognitive ideal of the sun would be that of a source of life, whether this changes the actual object in the cognitive realm or not. The spiritual realm is the actual source of power, and has been compared to being the sun with the physical realm the place where light pools, etc. which I take to be somewhat figurative. However, the cognitive realm has the figurative become literal, and so what they expect to see in the sky is the source of all life, whether it is the cognitive ideal of their sun or not. The two ideas might combine, and so it might be that every sun seen in the cognitive realm is the same portal to the spiritual realm, taking the place of their star, with the clouds always facing it, or it might be each is both the individual sun as well as the spiritual realm, and so the representation in the cognitive realm of their sun also is a portal to the spiritual realm. A bit of a stretch but one that I don't think is too far off. Edited November 12, 2019 by Ixthos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Quote White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016) #1 Share Copy Play/Pause Questioner So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. Brandon Sanderson Mhm Questioner So when Kelsier... Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Questioner ...in Shadesmar. He meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrian. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Like how far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's within-- he has s-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into kind of the darkness between planets. Questioner Okay. Brandon Sanderson He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system. Questioner Okay, so he's <still there> in the Scadrian system, just... Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yep. Questioner Okay, just edging it there. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, mhm. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point <at> him. I would get really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense. Questioner That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but... Brandon Sanderson It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah. Questioner Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Questioner ...in the Cognitive Realm... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yeah. Questioner So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or-- Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it? If people are thinking about it.. like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't. Questioner So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware it's *inaudible* would it... Brandon Sanderson It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause... Questioner Right. Brandon Sanderson But thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hoakie, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that. Questioner That's interesting. Brandon Sanderson You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoWibble Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 @Karger that is a long WoB. Thanks for clearing it up. Here is some more Paleo You also said...somebody asked whether there are points in Shadesmar where you could instantly travel across diametrically opposed points on a planet. Brandon Sanderson Right, there has to be. Paleo Of course I had topology last year in university and it's all about mappings and stuff like that and so I was wondering just how continuous - if you know maths term - the mapping from like the Physical Realm to the Cognitive Realm is. Brandon Sanderson It's not very. You'll notice already elevation is not mapped, you can find points in the books already where someone appears closer to the sea level and things so it's not very...there's a lot of bending going on and it gets worse or more obvious the further the series goes. Not a one to one correlation, not even close. Paleo So it's not just that it's very compressed it actually doesn't match some things. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, no. Imagine the things in the Physical Realm are mapping to places in the Cognitive Realm but not, they're not alternate dimensions of one another that are overlapping one to one. Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019) Questioner Is there a Shadesmar for each planet? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Anything that people think about, right? And, you really have to be inhabited to get a good Shadesmar… But, y'know, you can find the gas giants in Shadesmar, but they don't manifest as an entire plane. Um, that's gonna change! But we're years away from that. Shadesmar is cool and weird but-- Questioner Ohh, there's only one Shadesmar with different areas-- Brandon Sanderson Yeah, really what we call it-- Shadesmar is a term that has started to stick in the cosmere for the Cognitive Realm. But there are manifestations of most planets. Or all planets. Questioner But they do all exist-- All of those Shadesmars are part of the same cloth, so to speak. Brandon Sanderson Yes, you could walk from one to the other, barring some weird distortions that you might have to-- We're not going to dig-- I'm not gonna tell you about. Questioner But spren can't because they're bound. Brandon Sanderson They're bound Physically to the Realm, the Invesiture. Bystander Unless you help them off. Brandon Sanderson Unless-- There are certain ways you could do it, and things like that. But spren are bound, you aren't going to-- Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) @Ixthos, the Nexuses as Shadesmar representations of the moons? Love it! It finally gives some function to them, they've been bothering me for a while. I think the sun in the Cognitive as a representation of the Spiritual Realm is the most likely to be correct theory. They/It have/has been consistently described in the same manner (not as bright or warm as the Physical sun) and Khriss does use the metaphor of light source, light ray, where the light pools to explain the Three Realms. When I saw the title of the topic, I thought you wanted to shove a celestial body into the Cognitive Realm. I wonder what would happen to a planet's inhabitants if a planet is shoved into the Cognitive Realm. Or to Cognitive entities like spren if we shove a star... or a black hole! into the Cognitive Realm Edited November 13, 2019 by Honorless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthos Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Honorless said: @Ixthos, the Nexuses as Shadesmar representations of the moons? Love it! It finally gives some function to them, they've been bothering me for a while. I think the sun in the Cognitive as a representation of the Spiritual Realm is the most likely to be correct theory. They/It have/has been consistently described in the same manner (not as bright or warm as the Physical sun) and Khriss does use the metaphor of light source, light ray, where the light pools to explain the Three Realms. When I saw the title of the topic, I thought you wanted to shove a celestial body into the Cognitive Realm. I wonder what would happen to a planet's inhabitants if a planet is shoved into the Cognitive Realm. Or to Cognitive entities like spren if we shove a star... or a black hole! into the Cognitive Realm It goes all Lensmen and it turns out all objects in the cognitive realm are travelling fast than light, so suddenly you have planet sized FTL missiles! ... or maybe not ... :-P When an object enters the cognitive realm, what happens to its bead? If a planet enters, what happens to the objects that are associated with its bead ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not an Evil Librarian Posted November 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 13 hours ago, Honorless said: When I saw the title of the topic, I thought you wanted to shove a celestial body into the Cognitive Realm. I wonder what would happen to a planet's inhabitants if a planet is shoved into the Cognitive Realm. Or to Cognitive entities like spren if we shove a star... or a black hole! into the Cognitive Realm Expanding on this idea, what if the entirety of the cosmere were to transfer to the cognitive realm. all matter, energy, and investiture. Would the physical and cognitive realm become one and the same? Would there be no more physical realm since there is nothing there? Would that mean that there is no more cognitive realm as well since there are no physical objects to manifest? how would this affect the spiritual realm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Wait , wait , what about the gas Giants in the Rosharan system ? Khriss on her essay on the system states that thier manifestation on shadesmar is minor and hence they can't be studied very much. So I guess this minor manifestation is cause some ardents and a few other folk and the ppl at Silverlight Know about it right. So my question is at what point can u actually use cognitive manifestations to study the physical realm. A WoB above said u won't get the surface details of the moons unless someone visits the moon physically. Then how come Khriss expects to study the planets ? Indeed why even mention them at all while other gas Giants in other systems aren't even referenced ? Is she implying that there's microbial life on the Giants or that sentiant brings , perhaps spren lived there or still live there in low demographics ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Well, she does mention the sun of the Selish system as well as its first planet Donne... The ancient Elsecallers and Willshapers were Worldhoppers, they were the ones who mapped Shadesmar and named the Expanses, it's quite possible that they were aware of the gas giants and that might have influenced their manifestation in the Cognitive There are ten gas giants in the Rosharan system, that's not normal, especially considering that 10 is also an important number for the entire system, barring Braize 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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