Jump to content

Cultivation's magic and Adolin


KandraAllomancer

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

The problem with this is that it would probably mean that (A) accessing Investiture by food and (B) existing partially in Cognitive Realm are two separate boons (the curse seems to be the inability to inhale Stormlight). That's very unusual, even by Old Magic standards

I don't think that there is anything near a clear cut boon ane curse for om Cultivation, and I don't believe for a moment that Lift was a Nightwatcher project. 

She is by far the most extensive and weird change of anyone who's gone to the valley. 

She has all of her stormlight nonsense. She has the Cognitive nonsense, which both allows the spren contact, and messes with her shadow. She can enter into an area of the Cognitive Realm that is a creation of a specific Splinter because she feels like it (the only other tkme someone enters the visions without being pulled in by the Stormfather, it's storming Odium). And she can "smell" the touch of Cultivation on Dalinar. 

What is boon, what is curse, and what is side effect of what? 

With Dalinar, his "curse" was the loss of memory... But that "curse" was exactly what he needed to grow into a better man, so was it really a curse? 

With Taravangian, the curse is supposedly the fact that he can't access to both is compassion and his intellect at the same time... But the days that he he has aren't really random. And it's funny the way that smart T shows up just to change the Diagram in ways that are specifically relevant to current events. 

With all three of them, there is a cost. Things have changed in ways that some things are more difficult, some things are painful. But as far as what is their boon and curse, that's a lot harder to say. 

The reason that I think Lift is using Stormlight, is that she still gloss and leaks blue-white light. That's stormlight. 

Voidlight is violet/black/stygian light and that's what appears around the Fused when they use it. 

The mist in the Valley, the "Cultivationlight," is green. No one has glowed green. Absolutely no one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Calderis said:

I don't think that there is anything near a clear cut boon ane curse for om Cultivation, and I don't believe for a moment that Lift was a Nightwatcher project. 

She is by far the most extensive and weird change of anyone who's gone to the valley. 

She has all of her stormlight nonsense. She has the Cognitive nonsense, which both allows the spren contact, and messes with her shadow. She can enter into an area of the Cognitive Realm that is a creation of a specific Splinter because she feels like it (the only other tkme someone enters the visions without being pulled in by the Stormfather, it's storming Odium). And she can "smell" the touch of Cultivation on Dalinar. 

What is boon, what is curse, and what is side effect of what? 

With Dalinar, his "curse" was the loss of memory... But that "curse" was exactly what he needed to grow into a better man, so was it really a curse? 

With Taravangian, the curse is supposedly the fact that he can't access to both is compassion and his intellect at the same time... But the days that he he has aren't really random. And it's funny the way that smart T shows up just to change the Diagram in ways that are specifically relevant to current events. 

With all three of them, there is a cost. Things have changed in ways that some things are more difficult, some things are painful. But as far as what is their boon and curse, that's a lot harder to say. 

The reason that I think Lift is using Stormlight, is that she still gloss and leaks blue-white light. That's stormlight. 

Voidlight is violet/black/stygian light and that's what appears around the Fused when they use it. 

The mist in the Valley, the "Cultivationlight," is green. No one has glowed green. Absolutely no one. 

I predict we are going to see more people doing what Lift does . Consuming food to generate stormlight . Brandon keeps saying Lift is a very important character . And assured that she is one we see in the back half of the 5 books. We probably won’t see Cultivation’s system until then . Everybody that does what Lift can do will be a part of Cultivation’s  system . Just my guess . I don’t quote WoB like you guys do for personal reasons . 

           I totally agree with you one part though . Anytime Cultivation interceded . The Boon Curse is not usually a boon curse . When she intercedes the person usually gets better deal . 

         I Still think Cultivation created Lift . And admit it’s just a guess. Cause as person Lift doesn’t make sense. I know everyone thinks I’m off . If I’m right just remember I said it first .

Edited by SzethIsBadAsHell
Misspelled word
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Calderis said:

With Dalinar, his "curse" was the loss of memory... But that "curse" was exactly what he needed to grow into a better man, so was it really a curse? 

With Cultivation it's probably less about some unconnected boon and curse, and more about boon and some kind of crippling limitation.

Dalinar got memory "pruning", but his memories would finally come back. Taravangian has great intelligence ad compassion, but no at the same time. Lift is very weird here, that's why I'm thinking of some underlying mechanism similar to the other two

21 hours ago, Calderis said:

The reason that I think Lift is using Stormlight, is that she still gloss and leaks blue-white light. That's stormlight. 

Fair point. Maybe she can access both? That could explain why there are so many weird things about her

21 hours ago, Calderis said:

The mist in the Valley, the "Cultivationlight," is green. No one has glowed green. Absolutely no one. 

I really wouldn't expect any agent of Cultivation to glow green, even if they used Cultivationlight. She seems to stealthy for that. She strikes me as a Shard who would give a person another ability just to hide the first one

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said:

I really wouldn't expect any agent of Cultivation to glow green, even if they used Cultivationlight. She seems to stealthy for that. She strikes me as a Shard who would give a person another ability just to hide the first one

Good point. I think if lift were to glow green then that would make her too obvious a target for odium as cultivation’s agent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do know that she converts calories to Stormlight (dang that girl got herself quite a deal!) but I don't think she has access to Cultivationlight (that sounds so Xianxia). I see Cultivation's magic kind of similar to Ruin's: pruning, cutting and grafting of the Spiritweb. I don't think that Lift would need Cultivationlight to power her (non Radiant) abilities.

Edited by Honorless
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Honorless said:

We do know that she converts calories to Stormlight (dang that girl got herself quite a deal!) but I don't think she has access to Cultivationlight (that sounds so Xianxia). I see Cultivation's magic kind of similar to Ruin's: pruning, cutting and grafting of the Spiritweb. I don't think that Lift would need Cultivationlight to power her (non Radiant) abilities.

Her converting food into stormlight could be how cultivation magic system will allow access to surges. I don’t think lift is using cultivation system but a mix of both cultivation and honor. So she metabolises food which is very cultivationy to me and still needs a nahel bond and oaths to progress. Lifts spiritweb has been cut grafted and pruned. How else is she doing all these weird things that she does?

Edited by The traveller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Her converting food into stormlight could be how cultivation magic system will allow access to surges. 

I don't think that particular aspect of her power has to do anything with Cultivation's nature. Food > Investiture is similar to metal > Investiture, I think that's Realmatic mechanics

13 minutes ago, The traveller said:

 I don’t think lift is using cultivation system but a mix of both cultivation and honor.

Surgebinding and fabrial science are of  both Honor and Cultivation but the systems themselves are of a Honor and Cultivation respectively. So, yup, she is not using Cultivation's magic system.

13 minutes ago, The traveller said:

So she metabolises food which is very cultivationy to me and still needs a nahel bond and oaths to progress.

Those abilities are still separate in my mind. Her Boon or Bane only interacts with her Radiancy by changing the source of her Investiture, allowing her to directly access Stormlight by metabolizing food but apparently cutting her off from stored Stormlight

Edited by Honorless
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

All of the Sleepless' abilities seem biologically derived which may or may not count as magic. We don't even know if they're native to Roshar so I'd say no, at least not for the entire species. Certain individuals may use Cultivation's magic.

They seem biologically derived as in that they could have been biologically pruned or cultivated in this manner to provide them their abilities. We do know that they are refugees on Roshar from wobs but we do not know if they were like this when they came or they have been modified later. Also this fact does not necessarily rules out their being cultivation’s agents and using her magic system after coming to Roshar. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Agent34 said:

All of the Sleepless' abilities seem biologically derived which may or may not count as magic. We don't even know if they're native to Roshar so I'd say no, at least not for the entire species. Certain individuals may use Cultivation's magic.

Well we know they are at least "kind of" Cultivation's Agents.  Personally, this WOB (below) makes me strongly suspect that they are not actually physical Beings in the traditional sense.  We know from several WOB's that they are a Hive, that "the individual's consciousness is an interesting thing" and that you could spike a Hordeling (either in or out).  but it would loose contact with the Hive rather than directly affect it. And the way he keeps wanting to qualify the WOB below makes me think the Dysian Amians are not in fact a physical Realm Race at all, rather they are a Spren race that is bonding with and controlling a large population of animals, more or less the mechanism we saw with Nergaoul in OB, where he "bonded" to the entirely army at once (causing their Shadesmar Flames to turn Red).  The reason he keeps trying to qualify it would be because he's already said that spren cant Hold a shard the same way a Vessel can (because they are already Pure Investiture) but doesnt want to reveal that the Dysians are actually Spren (or cognitive Shadows, more or less the same thing).  "Spren" are the Asterisk on the rule he is trying to avoid spoiling.  

 

Quote

 

Questioner

I was wondering if Sleepless-- the Dysian Aimians-- if they could hold a Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Could the Sleepless hold a Shard? Could they be a Vessel? Is what you're asking?

*hems and haws* There is nothing innate about the Shards that prevents any one with a-- I have to phrase this very carefully...

Non-humans can be Vessels. Non-humans have been vessels. Certain sapient creatures in the cosmere, could not be. But that's an asterisk, not the rule.

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

 

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 14.11.2019 at 6:59 AM, Agent34 said:

All of the Sleepless' abilities seem biologically derived which may or may not count as magic. We don't even know if they're native to Roshar so I'd say no, at least not for the entire species. Certain individuals may use Cultivation's magic.

There is also a possibility that the Sleepless as a whole (or maybe some large portion of the species) were somehow changed by Cultivation. We already have a precedence with (Mistborn spoilers)

Spoiler

Harmony and the koloss

 

19 hours ago, Quantus said:

And the way he keeps wanting to qualify the WOB below makes me think the Dysian Amians are not in fact a physical Realm Race at all, rather they are a Spren race that is bonding with and controlling a large population of animals, more or less the mechanism we saw with Nergaoul in OB, where he "bonded" to the entirely army at once (causing their Shadesmar Flames to turn Red). 

I don't know if I would go that far and call them spren, but I agree that they probably exist closer to the Cognitive Realm than humans. Song of Spren already says this about Singers, and the Sleepless seem to have this to an even higher degree. Given Lift's situation, that might be a common theme for Cultivation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, KandraAllomancer said:

I don't know if I would go that far and call them spren, but I agree that they probably exist closer to the Cognitive Realm than humans. Song of Spren already says this about Singers, and the Sleepless seem to have this to an even higher degree. Given Lift's situation, that might be a common theme for Cultivation

To be clear, the line Im trying to draw is the line between creatures of made of Pure Investiture like a Spren, Seon, or perhaps a Cognitive Shadow like the fused, which as I understand it are ineligible to become actual Vessels (as opposed to becoming just a more powerful spren, still just an example of sentient Investiture.  Functionally Fused are probably the closest example, though Im not saying that the Dysian Amian spirit was ever a Human, Singer, or any other race native to the Physical Realm.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Chaos locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...