What is your Wildest Cosmere Theory??

[+robardin]

On 11/11/2019 at 3:38 PM, Belzedar said:

The first book Mistborn Era 3 will open with a bank robbery. A coinshot bank robber will be flying over the city with a sack of money under one arm, raining bills down on the people below. The actual first line of narration will be:

"Cash fell from the sky."

You got me good.

And hey. Combine this with the other theory about the End of Roshar, and maybe Ash literally falls from the sky in Era 3!

[Use the Falchion]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:33 AM, teknopathetic said:

Spoilers All Series, but I am POSITIVE I know the fate of Roshar

  Hide contents

The vision of Roshar being destroyed is the "hidden ending" Brandon said is located somewhere in the first two books. The people of Roshar will become refugees who flee to Nalthis. Maybe Odium wins and Roshar is destroyed (for human-life anyway), or maybe Cultivation wins by destroying Roshar itself. Who knows. But the planet is doomed. 

Proof

1. Brandon wouldn't give the same ending to multiple main series
    a. Sel - Post Shardic Defeat 
    b. Nalthis - Shard unimpeded
    c. Scadrial     - Shards battling and merge; Hero's save the day last minute
    d. Roshar - seeing a shard taken down ; Heros fail. 

2. Themes
   a. Stormlight is all about refugees
   b. Seeing the Humans become refugees again would fit the moral arc of the series thus far
   c. The Iriali believe there will be another great migration

3. Warbreaker is a Necessary Prequel to Stormlight Accoring to Brandon
    a. Nalthis is the next closest planet in the Cognitive realm
    b. Brandon said Nalthis has a customs agency (refugee status?)
    c. The main characters now have some idea of Nalthis being nearby and filled with humans
    d. Vivenna and Vasher could aid their refugee petition

 4. WOB
   a. When I asked Brandon about this on reddit, he said "..."    

 

 

I LOVE IT. Going off your theory, what if the final stand ends with the remaining Heralds (and/or any new ones), picking up their blades out of a circle, to fight off the Voidbringers one last time as the world ends, redeeming themselves from the prelude.

My two wildest theories are that:

1. Larkin are Dawnshards. I know this won't happen, but I always liked the idea of Dragon Riding Radiants. Add to the fact that Larkins can do pretty much everything that Dawnshards are rumored to do, and that, like Shardblades before them, are introduced in gradual states...well...it was a fun theory. It also fits the theme of us seeing the answers right in front of our eyes, but not being able to process it yet. 

2. Book 5 will end with Odium destroying the highstorms. That ominous prophecy about that says "The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows." is actually talking about 3 separate events. The Everstorm is what we saw arrive in WoR; the True Desolation is upon us, and we'll see it in full during books 4 & 5, and Book 5 will end with the Night of Sorrows. The Weeping is called that because there are no highstorms. What do you call an era without highstorms?

This is also why Lift and Renarin are so important. Cultivation saw this coming so she prepared Radiants that aren't dependent on highstorms for their investiture.

 

 

Bonus Theory 3: Jasnah's book will be called The Stormlight Archive, and the epigraphs will be her forward of the book. So we'll be reading The Stormlight Archive in the Stormlight Archive, the final book of The Stormlight Archive.

Bonus Theory 4: Part of the splinters of Honor/Tanavast were molded into a human (or forced into a human...or something like that), and Kaladin was the outcome, which is why the Stormfather calls Kaladin "Son of Tanavast." I don't think Lirin is/was Tanavast or anything like that, but I think there's something going on there.

[--delete--]

One of the times Hoid got mixed up in religion he was just trying to hasten the invention of instant noodles and got a little carried away

[Lunu’anaki]

10 hours ago, Quantus said:

Wildest Current Theory:  That Endowment Created/Invented the Returned using the Heralds as a template (or vice verse).  Then she sent  arranged for Returned to visit Roshar, who helped the Local Spren develop the Radiant Orders (note the Five Ideals, which is Endowment/Nalthis's magic number).  Later she sent another wave of Returned (the Five Scholars) to Roshar to use the Radiant Shardblades as a template for Nightblood.  All this was made possible by a complicit (if not actively coordinating) Cultivation, with the ultimate goal of creating Nightblood (ie Chekhov's Shardblade), a weapon conceived by mortals (giving the other Shards deniability) that is capable of defeating a Shard Vessel.  

Now that's an interesting one!! Vasher definitely has a big part to play in SA since Warbreaker is technically considered a prequel to SA by Brandon...

[TheGirlWhoLookedUp]

I think that in Stormlight 4 or 5, a group of people are going to sail Rysn’s ship, Wandersail, to the Origin and discover something there. 
It’s crazy, but I feel like I’m the past books the mysterious Origin is mentioned a lot. I feel like it might be foreshadowing for the later books.

We know that Rysn is going to be appearing more later on and now she owns a ship called the Wandersail. In Wit’s story he mentions that the Wandersail set out to find the Origin. I think maybe Rysn or someone is going to try again.

[FictionSpren]

I think that there is legitiment ways to move into the spiritual realm and stay there. Could this be the beyond? Has Hoid been there?

Also

My thoughts on lerasium is that one bead forms every 160 years. How long was Leras a shard for? And If this is true can the maximum amount of larasium at one time be 16?? this would fit with the 16 pattern...

One more,

The shard pool on sel, Could it be a perpendicularity that allows movement between Physical, Mental AND spiritual??? We saw the Hoed who was placed in that pool appear as a lighthouse keeper in rosharian Shademar. 

 

 

Also please exuse my speling and if im getting the planet names mixed up. My Smedry Talent is being Incorrect

[Honorless]

On 11/12/2019 at 4:49 AM, Fractalfire said:

This theory is terrifyingly plausible sounding.

If I were an author I would want to make my readers grow to love the world itself and then show them how it died. I always thought would be extra horrifying if we had gotten to know Alderaan before it was destroyed...

Even the fact that the Herald's viewpoints are saved for books 5-10 makes sense! They were refugees and their viewpoints would fit into a post-apocalypse story nicely, as a comparison. 

You win Most Horrifying Theory. 

Now someone please disprove it quickly, for my sanity...

Okay, see if this helps

We know Rosharans, at least, will survive, in enough numbers to still preserve certain aspects of their culture. We know this from Sixth of the Dusk:

Spoiler

apparently Dusk doesn't like chouta

We also know that Brandon wants conflux novels, he's talked about Surgebinding during those enough that I think it's safe to assume that the magic too would survive. After all, the Surges are a natural part of Roshar, so I think the planet itself also looks like it might survive.

Plus, the backcover blurbs are apparently being written in-world by the Dysian Aimians

Edited November 13, 2019 by Honorless

[Yezrien]

I've always had this crazy theory that Shards, and the splintering of Shards, have subtle cosmere-wide effects that no one's noticed yet. This theory is potentially strengthened by the recent revelation that every Shard is "invested" everywhere in the cosmere.

I may have mentioned this before in a similar thread, actually. My hypothesis is that Ruin will someday be splintered (perhaps in an attack on Harmony, or perhaps by Harmony himself for various reasons), and this will alter the way entropy works in the cosmere, at least with respect to certain kinds of investiture. Specifically, the splintering of Ruin will make it easier for pieces of investiture to recombine after breaking apart, and this will make it much easier for splintered Shards (and ultimately Adonalsium itself) to be reassembled.

(Although, now that I think about it, Ruin, by its very nature, might resist being reassembled, making a complete Adonalsium impossible. But then again, maybe Adonalsium without Ruin would be a good thing.)

[Quantus]

4 hours ago, Belzedar said:

I've always had this crazy theory that Shards, and the splintering of Shards, have subtle cosmere-wide effects that no one's noticed yet. This theory is potentially strengthened by the recent revelation that every Shard is "invested" everywhere in the cosmere.

I may have mentioned this before in a similar thread, actually. My hypothesis is that Ruin will someday be splintered (perhaps in an attack on Harmony, or perhaps by Harmony himself for various reasons), and this will alter the way entropy works in the cosmere, at least with respect to certain kinds of investiture. Specifically, the splintering of Ruin will make it easier for pieces of investiture to recombine after breaking apart, and this will make it much easier for splintered Shards (and ultimately Adonalsium itself) to be reassembled.

(Although, now that I think about it, Ruin, by its very nature, might resist being reassembled, making a complete Adonalsium impossible. But then again, maybe Adonalsium without Ruin would be a good thing.)

Interesting!  So when Ambition was Splintered would it have caused a Cosmere-wide dip in Ambitious Intent?  Would the way Ambition's Investiture was left in the Spiritual while D&D were shoved in the Cognitive make any difference?

[Yezrien]

Maybe, @Quantus! It's just the seed of a theory so far, but it would be interesting to develop it more and speculate on the implications for each Shard.

But you've got me thinking about Ambition. We know Odium went after her first because her ambition would obviously make her a competitor, but maybe there was more to it than that. Maybe splintering Ambition somehow reduced competition throughout the cosmere. Not necessarily by making people less ambitious, but perhaps by making it harder for people with magic powers to reach higher levels. It's still possible, obviously, but maybe it's harder than it used to be. And maybe the difficulty scales up with your power level. So it's almost impossible for any Shard to grow stronger than baseline post-Shattering Shard-power. (Effectively guaranteeing that no one will ever become more powerful than Odium himself.) And Harmony's a loophole: he was able to rise beyond standard Shard-power because he was starting from a much lower power level, and he acquired two shards without ever having just one.

Again, crazy theory. No real evidence that I can think of. I probably wouldn't have posted it in any thread but this one. But here we are.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Belzedar

[What's a Seawolf?]

Here's my line of logic:

1.  Warbreaker, and thus Vasher and Nightblood, is a prologue to the SA.

2.  If Warbreaker is a prologue, Awakening is going to have to be described at some point during the 10 book SA.

3.  The back 5 books are the perfect point to introduce a new magic system that can compliment the existing systems.  (Especially if book 5 ends with the destruction of Roshar and escape to Nalthis.)

4.  Lift is also important.  In a world of no highstorms, she will be possibly the only Radiant who can reliably use their Surgebinding.  (I imagine some Radiants will have issue using Breaths to fuel Suregbinding.)

 

Put all that together and what do you get?

Vasher Awakens a cupcake with his Divine Breath, Lift eats said cupcake, and thus becomes a Returned Edgedancer Awakener wielder of Nightblood.

 

If Odium is not dead by that point, the rest of the SA is about him fleeing in terror.

[Chiberty]

18 hours ago, Tide Eyed said:

One of the times Hoid got mixed up in religion he was just trying to hasten the invention of instant noodles and got a little carried away

The flying spaghetti monster is just Hoid.

[Lunu’anaki]

On 11/12/2019 at 4:52 PM, robardin said:

You got me good.

And hey. Combine this with the other theory about the End of Roshar, and maybe Ash literally falls from the sky in Era 3!

Speaking of...I keep feeling like something is going to happen to Harmony and we'll get a new Dystopian Scadrial for Era 3, this time a Capitalist nightmare situation instead of an authoritarian one.

On 11/12/2019 at 10:50 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Bonus Theory 3: Jasnah's book will be called The Stormlight Archive, and the epigraphs will be her forward of the book. So we'll be reading The Stormlight Archive in the Stormlight Archive, the final book of The Stormlight Archive.

Okay so... you've convinced me. You've convinced me to the point that if this isn't what happens I'll be at least slightly disappointed 

[Calderis]

I'm just gong to link what I think are my most contentious theories first. 

My exceptionally specific medallion theory, hate by opponents of Hemalurgy. 

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/78646-step-by-step-process-of-medallion-creation/

My theory on how Kel got his body back... Hated by proponents of the Mistwraith theory 

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/61186-physical-life-after-death/

Probably my third most baseless theory, but one of my favorites even though even I disagree with the part about Taln's blade at this point. 

This one from before OB, that hated by all lovers of Taln and that I secretly still hope is true. (my second most baseless) 

And then finally, the one with so little evidence that even I didn't make a post about it (yet others have reached the same crackpot conclusion, and we even have WoBs asking about it)... 

Liss is Chana. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Calderis

[Ixthos]

On the whole Hoid and noodles thing - the real reason he wanted a bond with a Cryptic wasn't for Lightweaving but for Soulcasting! He will attempt to soulcast instant noodles, but it won't work because he isn't practised enough, and so will have to wait until someone else develops it.

 

Sleepless originated from outside the cluster of stars called the Cosmere.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Ixthos
stars, not starts

[The Awakened Salad]

Can I add another theory? (I don't really believe this one, but it's fun to think about)

Devotion/Aona faked her own death and is actually the true big bad of the cosmere. Odium? Just another minion. Autonomy? A distraction. Aona is waiting. Hiding in the shadows until her time comes. She went to Sel with Dominion, despite his protests, knowing that Rayse would come after him sooner or later. After Odium killed Skai, she made a deal with him. She would let him continue on his path of killing all of the other shards -- tricking him into doing her dirty work -- and in exchange he would help her fake her death by pretending to kill her. The seons? A decoy. She convinced Ati and Leras to settle on a planet together, planning that Ati would kill Leras due to their opposing Intents, and then it'd be easy for Rayse to take out Leras. Harmony was unexpected, but he's inexperienced and is restricted anyway. While Odium was busy hunting shards, she reached out to Bavadin. Somehow, she convinces Bavadin to help her, and Bavadin begins doing... whatever Bavadin is doing. Edgli isn't seen as a threat right now; she seems happy enough on Nalthis, but Aona knows to be careful. It's a shame that Rayse got caught up in the Rosharan system, but she has plans in case Cultivation outsmarts him. And the other shards... who knows? The only other person she has to worry about is Hoid. And it's easy to avoid him, because he's so preoccupied with Rayse. 

Odium Devotion reigns. Most powerful of the sixteen.

Obviously, we have hard evidence Aona is dead, but imagine the plot twist!

[Aon Tia]

At the end of SA 5, Rayse is going to be killed and his shard is going to be picked up by cultivation who then becomes the big bad. Her intent is warped as she begins to cultivate her hatred and becomes wrath. Her wrath is then directed towards all the other shards for not helping her and honor and she decides to take on all the shards. 

[+robardin]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:50 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Bonus Theory 3: Jasnah's book will be called The Stormlight Archive, and the epigraphs will be her forward of the book. So we'll be reading The Stormlight Archive in the Stormlight Archive, the final book of The Stormlight Archive.

Actually very possible! Every SA novel title so far has been the name of an in-world work as well. "Stones Unhallowed" being the working title of Szeth's book sounds like it could be the Shin holy writ, and whatever name will be used for Eshonai/Venli's book will likely be the name of a song of the Listeners...

[Use the Falchion]

15 hours ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

2.  If Warbreaker is a prologue, Awakening is going to have to be described at some point during the 10 book SA

That reminds me of a less crazy theory! Sometime during the next two books, Adolin is going to use Awakening to fully Awaken Maya. The long version of the theory is that he'll bring her mostly back to life (maybe Oath 2 level of life), but she won't be able to switch out of her sword form, nor will she be able to grant any powers to Adolin. So he finds Azure (or Zahel, if he's available and willing to share information) and asks how her sword was created. Then the theory splits: Adolin either goes to the Nightwatcher to ask for breaths to Awaken his blade (his bane being that he will never be able to hold investiture and become a Radiant...something he's fine with); or Adolin is "exiled" for killing Sadeas and uses that excuse to travel off-world, gains some breath in-between books/series, and comes back later. Or he just accompanies Shallan on an off-world Ghostblood mission. 

[Quantus]

Latest Theory:  Honor lost it because he had an an affair....  (Detailed Post Coming Soon)

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Latest Theory:  Honor lost it because he had an an affair....  (Detailed Post Coming Soon)

With... Odium? 

[Karger]

The big A designed Roshar as an investiture sewage plant.  None of the shards realize this yet except for Cultivation but it is impossible for any investiture being to leave the place after spending time there.  Lift was created in the hope that she would worldhop put down roots and establish herself on another world allowing Cultivation herself to be invested there and as such escape.

[Quantus]

6 hours ago, Honorless said:

With... Odium? 

With Queen Tsa.  I think Hoid's story of the Moon Gods is describing the shardic Soap Opera that went down.  The short version of the story is that a very clever mortal queen tricked the celestial entity that is female and color-coded Green to trade places for a day, only to later discover that it was all a scam to have a night and a child with the male celestial being color-coded White.  That translates to Cultivation voluntarily giving up her Shard (which they can do by WOB), temporarily entrusting it to a Mortal so that she (cultivation) could experience Mortal life again.  This put Honor in a pickle, because the rationale behind how he is Oaths (like the non-interference deal among the Shards) is based on the Fact that Cultivation and his Wife are the same being, and suddenly that was no longer the case.  Now, whether he made any actual Choice to "mingle" with the Temporary Cultivation, or if their mutual Investment in Roshar caused it automatically,  I cant really say.  But either way, he had made multiple Oaths in the past that were now in conflict: Either his pre-existing marriage trumps the Shardic Deal, or Possessing a Shard takes precedence.  Either he had made a baby with a woman that he was not married to, or he had Co-habitated with another Shard and violated the agreement between the 16 that supersedes his mortal marriage.      

 

*Note:  This is based on the assumption that Honor was rationalizing staying with Cultivation via their pre-existing marriage, that it would not be "interference" to settle with your own spouse.  

 

There are a few fun possible implications of this: 

• Queen Tsa would then be a Sliver
• Queen Tsa might have then been Unmade.  Having that sort of direct Connection to Honor and Cultivation could explain why Ba-Ado-Mishram is uniquely able to Channel Voidlight, or why Sja-Anat is able to Corrupt Spren that are made of some mix of Honor and Cultivation.  
• Nohadon could be of this bloodline.  WOB is that Vessels can have Babies, and that it would have effects.  We know that Nohadon was "Someone Special" even among surgebinders and kings, and was not a Herald (but per that vision at least was indeed a Surgebinder). 
• Kaladin might be of this bloodline. WOB says that the Stormfather calling Kaladin, specifically, a Son of Tanavast is significant.  This would explain why.
• Queen Tsa...Tsa..T.S.A....  The Stormlight Archive?  Queen Tsa is the hidden secret of The Stormlight Archive?  

EDIT:  Went ahead and started a thread to kick the idea around

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Quantus

[Honorless]

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

With Queen Tsa.  I think Hoid's story of the Moon Gods is describing the shardic Soap Opera that went down.  The short version of the story is that a very clever mortal queen tricked the celestial entity that is female and color-coded Green to trade places for a day, only to later discover that it was all a scam to have a night and a child with the male celestial being color-coded White.  That translates to Cultivation voluntarily giving up her Shard (which they can do by WOB), temporarily entrusting it to a Mortal so that she (cultivation) could experience Mortal life again.  This put Honor in a pickle, because the rationale behind how he is Oaths (like the non-interference deal among the Shards) is based on the Fact that Cultivation and his Wife are the same being, and suddenly that was no longer the case.  Now, whether he made any actual Choice to "mingle" with the Temporary Cultivation, or if their mutual Investment in Roshar caused it automatically,  I cant really say.  But either way, he had made multiple Oaths in the past that were now in conflict: Either his pre-existing marriage trumps the Shardic Deal, or Possessing a Shard takes precedence.  Either he had made a baby with a woman that he was not married to, or he had Co-habitated with another Shard and violated the agreement between the 16 that supersedes his mortal marriage.      

 

*Note:  This is based on the assumption that Honor was rationalizing staying with Cultivation via their pre-existing marriage, that it would not be "interference" to settle with your own spouse.  

 

There are a few fun possible implications of this: 

• Queen Tsa would then be a Sliver
• Queen Tsa might have then been Unmade.  Having that sort of direct Connection to Honor and Cultivation could explain why Ba-Ado-Mishram is uniquely able to Channel Voidlight, or why Sja-Anat is able to Corrupt Spren that are made of some mix of Honor and Cultivation.  
• Nohadon could be of this bloodline.  WOB is that Vessels can have Babies, and that it would have effects.  We know that Nohadon was "Someone Special" even among surgebinders and kings, and was not a Herald (but per that vision at least was indeed a Surgebinder). 
• Kaladin might be of this bloodline. WOB says that the Stormfather calling Kaladin, specifically, a Son of Tanavast is significant.  This would explain why.
• Queen Tsa...Tsa..T.S.A....  The Stormlight Archive?  Queen Tsa is the hidden secret of The Stormlight Archive?  

 

Whoa

[teknopathetic]

Ambition is reforming or has reformed using necromancy unique to that shard. Brandon has said Ambition would be Mono Black in MtG, so it makes sense Ambition would have some control of necromancy. 
 

We have a book about a world where things don’t really die, but leave a shadow. Anything ambitious (murder, fire, speed) wakes up that spell and causes issues. The evil is likely to do with ambition’s spell. 
 

I think it likely that Ambition made a plan after she was injured that would insure her resurrection. Whatever is happening on Threnody is due to her revival attempt. 

And not only did Ambition have a lot of time between her injury and her death, but she also got to see Odium kill Devotion and Dominion. Ambition would have learned a lot from those deaths of her peers.
 

Apparently Odium couldn’t find Ambition, but then suddenly did? Did Ambition get discovered, or did Ambition WANT to be discovered. Ambition was mortally wounded, but maybe resurrection could fix what had occurred. 
 

A shard like Ambition wouldn’t go down without a plan, especially after learning so much.  I’m sure Ambition is back. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by teknopathetic