Honorless Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) Investiture, like matter, can appear in solid, liquid or gaseous state (and plasma too: the Dor, don't know if it can take a form like Bose-Einstein Condensate). Liquid Investiture pools together when a highly Invested object like a Shard spends a lot of time on a planet. This forms what Sharders (it's not a in-book term) call a 'Shardpool'. A Shardpool can be used by Worldhoppers to access a Shardworld via the Cognitive Realm. Shardpools aren't the only form a Perpendicularity can take however, nor are pools the only form a liquid can take. So can there be Shard Rivers and Shardbrooks? We know liquid Investiture can be taken away from the pool Spoiler in aluminium containers so liquid Investiture doesn't just seem liquid, it is liquid. Can these Shard Rivers be used to Worldhop? What about a small, narrow, shallow brook? I believe that the latter cannot be used to Worldhop since one would need enough volume of liquid Investiture to be able to submerge themselves in order to do that. Edited November 10, 2019 by Honorless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 How will one worldhop from a shard river? If they swim in it long enough? Go a certain distance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, The traveller said: How will one worldhop from a shard river? If they swim in it long enough? Go a certain distance? We don't know how a Shardpool is used to Worldhop, aside from that every instance seems to indicate you have to submerge yourself, beyond that it requires some Realmatic knowledge to do so. Presumably, one can use a Shard River to Worldhop in the same manner as a Shardpool, by submerging oneself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 Submerging yes, but I think Rick mentioned something about needing to go a certain depth too.. I really doubt that a shard will be ok with a river because it is difficult to control it. They merge into other rivers, tributaries? It will have to be an inland river.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, The traveller said: Submerging yes, but I think Rick mentioned something about needing to go a certain depth too.. I really doubt that a shard will be ok with a river because it is difficult to control it. They merge into other rivers, tributaries? It will have to be an inland river.. That sounds like the kind of thing a certain Taldani Shard would be interested in... Also, it begs the question of if animals would evolve to live near it and if they would get some Invested benefits from doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Invocation said: That sounds like the kind of thing a certain Taldaini Shard would be interested in... Also, it begs the question of if animals would evolve to live near it and if they would get some Invested benefits from doing so. She would be, wouldn't she? That might be part of what is happening on Patji... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 Just now, Honorless said: That might be part of what is happening on Patji... That was my thought too. It would be interesting to see it happen in real time, to get an estimate of how long that would take. I should just be a cosmere biologist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, Invocation said: Also, it begs the question of if animals would evolve to live near it and if they would get some Invested benefits from doing so. Is it possible then, that, animals at the peaks would be this evolved? All types of ecosystems must evolve around every shardpool .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 Just now, The traveller said: Is it possible then, that, animals at the peaks would be this evolved? All types of ecosystems must evolve around every shardpool .. The Horneaters are at least partially evolved that way at this point (Rock can see all spren, and some other Horneaters can too, plus they're able to swim in the pools themselves that kill everyone else), so what life there would be around their peaks would probably be like that too. Most of the Shardpools that we've seen aren't in a location that would be able to support much life, though, so if it happens to every ecosystem is unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The traveller said: Is it possible then, that, animals at the peaks would be this evolved? All types of ecosystems must evolve around every shardpool .. The Unkalaki certainly are different. They can see spren. Though that might be their Singer ancestry. @InvocationSigzil did present the rumours that the Unkalaki just shoot any outsiders that take a dip in the Ocean (that's their word for the pools). Or maybe the Horneaters just see a person submerging themselves into a body of water and disappearing, they might've assumed they drowned. The Elantrians also thought that Devotion's Pool could kill Elantrians rather than transporting them into the Cognitive (where they might yet die, confronted with the horrible churning plasma Investiture storm of the Dor) Edited November 10, 2019 by Honorless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 @Invocation also I am wondering is it that there are many peaks with each having its own crater lake? This is the impression I got.. 1 minute ago, Honorless said: The Unkalaki certainly are different. They can see spren. Though that might be their Singer ancestry. We do not have any confirmation that singers can see syl.. they were not able to see syl around Kaladin.. and syl was only worried about yixli spotting her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The traveller said: @Invocation also I am wondering is it that there are many peaks with each having its own crater lake? This is the impression I got.. I think they all have some of Cultivation's Investiture on them, hence the atmospheric warming on them, but I don't think any of the others would work as a transition point except the main one. Don't take my word as law on that one, it's speculation. 5 minutes ago, Honorless said: The Unkalaki certainly are different. They can see spren. Though that might be their Singer ancestry. @InvocationSigzil did present the rumours that the Unkalaki just shoot any outsiders that take a dip in the Ocean (that's their word for the pools). Or maybe the Horneaters just see a person submerging themselves into a body of water and disappearing, they might've assumed they drowned. The Elantrians also thought that Devotion's Pool could kill Elantrians rather than transporting them into the Cognitive (where they might yet die, confronted with the horrible churning plasma Investiture storm of the Dor) Yes, and Rock vehemently denied that. Perception plays a big part in this, and I think the perception of this from the Horneaters does the job nicely. Edited November 10, 2019 by Invocation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, The traveller said: @Invocation also I am wondering is it that there are many peaks with each having its own crater lake? This is the impression I got.. We do not have any confirmation that singers can see syl.. they were not able to see syl around Kaladin.. and syl was only worried about yixli spotting her! Singers can perceive spren better than humans though. It isn't a clear line of you either see it or don't. Some spren are better at hiding, some are more in the Physical, etc. And yes, there are multiple pools. They are all Cultivation's Perpendicularities. Brandon has said that a Shard can have multiple Shardpools Edited November 10, 2019 by Honorless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 Just now, Invocation said: I think they all have some of Cultivation's Investiture on them, hence the atmospheric warming on them, but I don't think any of the others would work as a transition point except the main one. Don't take my word as law on that one, it's speculation. That is exactly what I was wondering.. is it one main perpendicularity acting shardpool or there are many.. I think one central one too.. especially since not every horneater can see spren right? that horneater who shallan stabs could not see pattern.. could he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 Just now, Honorless said: Singers can perceive spren better than humans though. It isn't a clear line of you either see it or don't. Some spren are better at hiding, some are more in the Physical, etc. Possible but I think it is more a function of perpendicularity on them than their singer ancestory.. I don’t think singers can see syl in the way that rock does.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, The traveller said: That is exactly what I was wondering.. is it one main perpendicularity acting shardpool or there are many.. I think one central one too.. especially since not every horneater can see spren right? that horneater who shallan stabs could not see pattern.. could he? No, not all Horneaters can see the spren. It's even implied there's a certain cultural honor thing for the ones that can, mentioned in passing by Rock. I think the pools give them heat but don't have enough to act as transition points. We'll find out sometime, since Sandman has said he plans to visit the Peaks on-screen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, The traveller said: Possible but I think it is more a function of perpendicularity on them than their singer ancestory.. I don’t think singers can see syl in the way that rock does.. Could be, but since both Singers and Horneaters can perceive spren, there is a clearer correlation there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 Just now, Honorless said: Could be, but since both Singers and Horneaters can perceive spren, there is a clearer correlation there Probably known as Cultivation's influence, honestly. I don't think the mixes came about without her doing her thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Honorless said: Could be, but since both Singers and Horneaters can perceive spren, there is a clearer correlation there But that is the thing.. I don’t think that singers can perceive spren.. remember how hard they were trying to attract spren.. and the only difference was that they were able to see spren coming towards them from farther away.. that’s it.. can you mention any other incidence? @Invocation i thought hot eaters were possible because the system was created by Adonalsium and he made it such.. Edited November 10, 2019 by The traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 minute ago, The traveller said: remember how hard they were trying to attract spren.. and the only difference was that they were able to see spren coming towards them from farther away.. that’s it.. That's an emotion thing. Humans express more emotions than the singers do, so they go there first. That's the only reason they were trying so hard to attract them. Just now, The traveller said: Is it not because Adonalsium created singers in a way that this could happen.. Unclear. They're technically two separate species and with the pretty much permanent rivalry between the two, I don't see there being a good point to establish an entire merged subset without Shardic intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Invocation said: Probably known as Cultivation's influence, honestly. I don't think the mixes came about without her doing her thing. Maybe, but this is part of their biology itself. The mixed races were probably cultivated to some degree by her and the Horneaters do live by her Perpendicularity 1 minute ago, The traveller said: But that is the thing.. I don’t think that singers can perceive spren.. remember how hard they were trying to attract spren.. and the only difference was that they were able to see spren coming towards them from farther away.. that’s it.. They can also see more of spren. Remember humans can only see part of the spren's body that manifests in the Physical. Rock is able to see more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) Ok may be then.. but is it only rock or all? That will also answer our question.. Edited November 10, 2019 by The traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, The traveller said: @Invocation i thought hot eaters were possible because the system was created by Adonalsium and he made it such.. We don't know if he made human/singer interbreeding possible. The Ashyn disaster happened long after he'd been Shattered and based on the way cosmere future-sight works, it's doubtful if he'd have been able to see that as anything other than a vague possibility. It's possible that he did think to do it, but I think it's more likely that it's just Cultivation messing around. 2 minutes ago, The traveller said: Ok may be then.. but is it only rock or all? That will also answer our question.. It's a mix. Some can, some can't. Edited November 10, 2019 by Invocation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 Ok guys.. Back to the topic, do you think shard sea is possible? Shard ocean? Do you think Adonalsium had a shardocean somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) To list them as we know: Ashynites: almost all modern day Rosharan humans from Alethi to Shin, Veden to Makabaki, though Veden also have some Horneater blood, Thaylen may have something as well Iriali - from somewhere else, Rirans also have some Iriali ancestry Unkalaki & Herdazian have Singer ancestry Natan and Babatharnam have Siah Aimian ancestry There are no Dysian Aimian hybrids so far as we know To add to my topic: We know that other forms of Perpendicularities exist that are not pools of liquid Investiture. Some magic systems like the Transportation Surge have it built-in, but it's apparently very difficult to transition through the Realms without either access to a Perpendicularity or a magic system that specifically allows this. Even Hoid still uses Shardpools by submerging himself so that means simply contact with liquid Investiture and Realmatic knowledge may not be all that is involved. Otherwise he and Khriss would just carry around an Aluminum flask containing liquid Investiture and... drink it? dunk themselves? Edited November 10, 2019 by Honorless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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