My take on undead

[Ixthos]

I prefer to keep my world building to myself for a variety of reasons, but I would like to know if anyone has any feedback on this, as this is something I only recently refined from a previous version. This is my take on undead.

 

In my setting there are different species and organisations which all have different takes on things, and some know more than others in some areas while knowing less on another topic, as well as on any given topic some know a lot in one area of that topic and less in another. Those who are very knowledgeable however all agree on certain things. One of them is the undead. There are four main classifications which fit into a grid, and each has several sub classifications. Without giving in setting terms, the grid consists of the following:

• physical - construct
• physical - sentient
• non-physical - sentient
• non-physical - construct

(Again, this is not using the in setting terms, though this is an accurate description of the properties of each type)

 

To give a brief explanation of each type:

Physical constructs are zombies, skeletons, etc., which are formerly living bodies that some power or technology is controlling. Many don't consider these to be undead because the last thread of life - something the others all have - is missing. These are governed by simple spells and can't adapt to a changing situation, and usually are bound to a single location, which powers them and which they are compelled to protect or perform some function nearby. They can in theory turn someone that dies nearby into more of themselves, but usually that requires very specific conditions, and most beings are immune to that. Either way they would still have to interact with a corpse to do so. There are a few subtypes depending on the nature of the power animating them, which can include fire and lightning flowing through them. Most of those subclassifications are shared with some of the other undead types, but this group has the most diversity.

 

Physical sentients are self aware, and are the same people they were before, only their bodies are not alive. It is a terrible existence but some still cling to it. They have a small sliver of life which some power or technology keeps attached to their bodies, and that same power also animates their bodies, and can "fill in" any missing parts, as their bodies no longer repair themselves, but will continue to function, with more damage resulting in more filling in by that which animates them. Usually, due to the nature of their bodies, they have strange physical powers, and might still have the powers they had in life, though either way their main feature is the ability to control the force that animates them to a certain extent. As mentioned above, they can have subclassifications such as fire and lightning, and so their powers typically involve being able to direct those things and using them in strange ways. If they originally had a power which was related to - again, for example - fire and lightning, they have even greater control of their new powers than others. They all fear having their small thread of life lost while their bodies retain the power animating them, as that would result in their bodies possibly becoming constructs if this was done deliberately by someone who knows how, though it is difficult and many are immune to this.

 

Non-physical sentients are also self aware, and also the same people as before, but they don't have their original bodies. Instead the last small thread is bound in a body made of the power that animates them. They typically don't have the same physical powers as the physical sentients, but either way they can also be powerful, though often bound to an item or object which sustains their abilities much like the physical constructs. Their powers usually are more mental. They worry about being turned into the next type, though some actually want this to happen.

 

Non-physical constructions are technically the same people they were before, but are actually like the grit that forms a pearl, buried deep inside power that still thinks it is them but is now dominated by a drive. Often these are the result of a sorcerer who wishes to live forever and doesn't want to risk becoming a non-physical sentient due to the difficulty in doing so with so little power. Despite being non-physical, their power is enough that they can take physical form, often can shape shift, and are monstrous to behold, with powerful abilities and minds bent by the power they use, their only weakness being they are bound to an object that sustains them. This can be a city. Some are not willingly made this way, but are instead captured non-physical sentient which who were not immune and were transformed and bound, though if the shell can be destroyed the non-physical sentient can in theory either escape or finally die. Often they are driven to become more powerful if formed from a sorcerer who wanted to become this, though the power they absorb usually bends their minds further, and those who were turned into these unwillingly are usually subservient to some sorcerer or other non-physical construct which changed them.

 

That's it - does anyone have any questions? :-P

Edited November 9, 2019 by Ixthos

[Xardan Ta'Caran]

So I have to say that I like these ideas. They're somewhat typical in many sense, but very unique takes to old ideas.

The only feedback I could offer is that maybe you should have a "good" version of each as well. So far everything here makes these sound like a predominantly evil caste of "things" that are only out to protect an evil treasure or keep a necromancer safe (although I do realize this may just be my perception). Having some of these creatures that are inherently good in nature could be a good counterpoint to the evil side.

I'm just imagining some cave somewhere with a Necromancer who has given life to a bunch of skeletons to attack a city, then a "good" necromancer that lives within the city does the same thing, but ties his skeletons to protect the outer wall of the city itself and gives each a command not to harm the residents of the city.

In either case, the commands given to these undead would be integral to who/what they are (as far as the non-sentient ones go) and the personality of the person who tied their life or had their life tied to another "power" would seem to make all the difference. If an inherently good person was tied to life by an evil sorcerer, would they then be forced to be evil or would they have the ability to "fight back" and destroy the sorcerer that created them?

Sorry for rambling there for a minute, but that was all of my initial thoughts on these. I'm happy to chat more and share more if you'd like, but thought that was a good start.

[Ixthos]

2 minutes ago, Xardan Ta'Caran said:

So I have to say that I like these ideas. They're somewhat typical in many sense, but very unique takes to old ideas.

The only feedback I could offer is that maybe you should have a "good" version of each as well. So far everything here makes these sound like a predominantly evil caste of "things" that are only out to protect an evil treasure or keep a necromancer safe (although I do realize this may just be my perception). Having some of these creatures that are inherently good in nature could be a good counterpoint to the evil side.

I'm just imagining some cave somewhere with a Necromancer who has given life to a bunch of skeletons to attack a city, then a "good" necromancer that lives within the city does the same thing, but ties his skeletons to protect the outer wall of the city itself and gives each a command not to harm the residents of the city.

In either case, the commands given to these undead would be integral to who/what they are (as far as the non-sentient ones go) and the personality of the person who tied their life or had their life tied to another "power" would seem to make all the difference. If an inherently good person was tied to life by an evil sorcerer, would they then be forced to be evil or would they have the ability to "fight back" and destroy the sorcerer that created them?

Sorry for rambling there for a minute, but that was all of my initial thoughts on these. I'm happy to chat more and share more if you'd like, but thought that was a good start.

Ahhh, that is an excellent point. For the most part the idea is that being undead is a terrible fate, but there is hope, because - aside from physical constructs, any undead can potentially be revived and returned to life. They are in a very vulnerable state, however, because the buffers that protect ones soul - which even in living people aren't fully effective for some things - are much weaker. One of the most important rules in the setting is that someone's will cannot be controlled. You can push them hard, but so long as they have a soul (and to have a soul means to have one's intellect, emotions, and will, and all remain so long as one remains) you can fight back - though not always successfully. Physical constructs have no soul and so are purely tools, but all the others do, and so all the others can resist control unless there is a "hook" in them - usually one they placed themselves - which makes resisting more difficult, but even then they can fight. Non-physical constructs find fighting very hard because in a sense the soul is actually asleep - it is still there, and so their memories and personality are available for the construct, but the person isn't actually there, and so they can't really fight back because they are like a power source, not the mind. But if they can be reached they can fight.

Becoming undead (aside from physical constructs) is usually forced on those who took certain risks, or willingly embraced by sorcerers who don't fully understand the consequences. There are some good people who are undead, and they usually have some more protection on them to prevent them from becoming constructs of either type, but mainly it is more like a sickness that should try to be cured. There are good people who are undead and command undead, but again they themselves find that form of life painful. Several major areas actually have entire quarters and facilities for undead cliental - usually physical sentients - including brothels, as well as brothels staffed by the undead for those who are into that. Some major empires consist of physical and non-physical sentients.

Another point is that many undead aren't humans - most aliens in the setting are VERY alien, and so several ALIEN alien undead also are around, so visiting other planets and realities can involve meeting things which stretch the definitions somewhat. One of the major weapons used by main villain are actually very hard to place on this grid though they are usually regarded as physical constructs with a caviate, as the villain likes to break classifications or use them to their own ends. Another hero-turned-antihero-everyone-thinks-is-a-villain-but-has-good-intentions likewise made a class which are difficult to place, usually regarded as physical sentients, but again with a caviate and also most people don't know they are undead.

Most of the undead are usually those who willingly embarked on dangerous missions (in fact a major location in the setting has treasure hunters sign a document which ensures that if they die they will either become constructs serving the places they came to explore or be drafted into serving the undead co-rulers of that location), or who experimented on things they shouldn't have, or where very unlucky or had it forced on them in ways normally not possible due to circumstance. Some were just very powerful with certain abilities and when they died refused to let the Harvestwoman collect them, if she was the one who came, and their abilities then formed a new, non-physical body for them. Different areas have different perceptions of what the undead are like, and different relations to the undead - the only consistent element is that the undead who aren't constructs have a difficult "life", and as long as the thread remains, there is a chance they can return to life, but they are also hunted by eldritch monsters which want to use them.

 

I'm always happy to talk, and thanks for the feedback! :-)

[Xardan Ta'Caran]

Ok. That lends a lot more to the thought process.

So my only remaining thought on that is that perhaps there ought to be a much smaller caste of the undead who sacrificed themselves in order to become undead. That would allow you to have the "good" side of the coin but not have it be overpowered. Most people wouldn't want to sacrifice themselves to become undead, but those who do would end up being able to help the area they are tied to immensely.

Obviously that's just a suggestion, but I think it would be good to just show that not all undead were made that way by manipulation. Some chose that fate so they could help someone or something they love.

In either case, I like the idea you have going here. It's very intriguing (especially with the contracts saying "you will become a construct should you die"). I'd love to see how this story develops! 

[Ixthos]

9 hours ago, Xardan Ta'Caran said:

Ok. That lends a lot more to the thought process.

So my only remaining thought on that is that perhaps there ought to be a much smaller caste of the undead who sacrificed themselves in order to become undead. That would allow you to have the "good" side of the coin but not have it be overpowered. Most people wouldn't want to sacrifice themselves to become undead, but those who do would end up being able to help the area they are tied to immensely.

Obviously that's just a suggestion, but I think it would be good to just show that not all undead were made that way by manipulation. Some chose that fate so they could help someone or something they love.

In either case, I like the idea you have going here. It's very intriguing (especially with the contracts saying "you will become a construct should you die"). I'd love to see how this story develops! 

I might do that :-) the setting has many areas with unique peoples and cultures, so that would make sense as something that happened somewhere. There is a group who - without giving major spoilers - are in a sense the opposite of undead, being a group who died but - unlike the undead - have an excess of life overflowing from them, and are incredibly important. The good, willingly sacrificed themselves for others, undead actually is a rather appealing idea - especially if they did so in the distant past and now are doing it for the descendent of those they love. I think that can work!

The place where that contract is is actually one of my favourite areas mainly because it is one of the first cities I worked on way back, and is a major part of the setting. I don't want to go too spoilery right now though :-P It isn't the main location for the main story, but I do have a few novellas ideas for it that I'd like to write God willing, though if God is willing that is in the future. Thanks again for your support and feedback!

[Knight of Iron]

This concept intrigues me on new levels. I would have to say I am a fan of it! It appeals to the logical part of myself because it is believable and I believe it will work well in a story.

[Ixthos]

14 hours ago, Knight of Iron said:

This concept intrigues me on new levels. I would have to say I am a fan of it! It appeals to the logical part of myself because it is believable and I believe it will work well in a story.

Thanks :-)

[Honorless]

@Ixthos, this is great!

You should check out Mother of Learning by Domagoj Kurmaic under the pseudonym nobody103, I think you'll love it. It's a freely available serialised web novel that is going to have its finale this month.

Edit: don't let the first two chapters fool you, it's really good! 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Honorless

[Ixthos]

53 minutes ago, Honorless said:

@Ixthos, this is great!

You should check out Mother of Learning by Domagoj Kurmaic under the pseudonym nobody103, I think you'll love it. It's a freely available serialised web novel that is going to have it's finale this month.

Thank you :-) I'll check it out!