spoilers thoughts on Aether of Night

[Aon Tia]

Alaska!? Wonderful!!

[Honorless]

Quote

• Elantris 1
• Elantris 2
• Elantris 3
• Mistborn Era 1: Book One
• Mistborn Era 1: Book Two
• Mistborn Era 1: Book Three
• Stormlight One
• Stormlight Two
• Stormlight Three
• Stormlight Four
• Stormlight Five
• Mistborn Era 2: Book One
• Mistborn Era 2: Book Two
• Mistborn Era 2: Book Three
• Mistborn Era 2: Book Four
• Warbreaker 1
• Warbreaker 2
• Mistborn Era 3: Book One
• Mistborn Era 3: Book Two
• Mistborn Era 3: Book Three
• Stormlight Six
• Stormlight Seven
• Stormlight Eight
• Stormlight Nine
• Stormlight Ten
• Dragonsteel Book One
• Dragonsteel Book Two
• Dragonsteel Book Three
• Untitled Threnody Novel
• Untitled Aether Book One
• Untitled Aether Book Two
• Untitled Aether Book Three
• Mistborn Era 4: Book One
• Mistborn Era 4: Book Two
• Mistborn Era 4: Book Three

Seems like Hoid's backstory, the Liar of Partinel is no longer in the plans. Will we still get a Hoid (origin) novella(s)? Will his story be divided from Dragonsteel to Mistborn era 4, revealed as they become relevant?

Hmm, might we see Hoid in this planned Aethers trilogy?

With three books for Aether, what're the chances that the meat of the plot remains the same?

Where in the Cosmere timeline would it be?

Waiting is difficult

Edited February 11, 2020 by Honorless

[Eternal Khol]

15 hours ago, Honorless said:

Again, don't forget to put up a review/analysis when you're finished

 

Alaska? Maybe the mailman is... Looking for Alaska

*hides after making horrible pun*

*high pitched squeel*

finally!!

[Honorless]

5 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

*high pitched squeel*

finally!!

Congrats! 

[Eternal Khol]

so RN Aethers are Pre-Shattering Magic. 

that's a pretty big WoB

i wonder how the magic changed after the shattering?

and if they are pre-shattering, that could mean that the Aethers are on a planet without any shard in residence.

 

Pagerunner

Are the Aethers from one of the Shards that we know? Or are they of a Shard we haven't learned about?

Brandon Sanderson

Right now they are pre-Shattering.

But I will probably change that.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

[Honorless]

5 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

so RN Aethers are Pre-Shattering Magic. 

that's a pretty big WoB

i wonder how the magic changed after the shattering?

and if they are pre-shattering, that could mean that the Aethers are on a planet without any shard in residence.

 

Pagerunner

Are the Aethers from one of the Shards that we know? Or are they of a Shard we haven't learned about?

Brandon Sanderson

Right now they are pre-Shattering.

But I will probably change that.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

Oh yeah, the Aether of Night is older than the Liar of Partinel. He tried to put Aethers in LoP. Before that he wanted to write about Aethers of Lor. Now with Stormlight, he's canonized the Aethers. I wonder why the Aethers magic would be such an important part of the Cosmere?

A pre-Shattering magic system would be cool or alternatively this could also introduce more Shards to us... which do you prefer? 

[+Oltux72]

41 minutes ago, Dreamer said:

Oh yeah, the Aether of Night is older than the Liar of Partinel. He tried to put Aethers in LoP. Before that he wanted to write about Aethers of Lor. Now with Stormlight, he's canonized the Aethers. I wonder why the Aethers magic would be such an important part of the Cosmere?

• Because they are non-locational, transferable and require no exotic fuel.
• Verdant is optimally adapted to crossing the CR on vehicles made with Ferrous
• A band of teleporters in invested armor is a terrifying opponent

We have no seen trading bands or mercenaries. That I would guess to be the reason.

 

[Eternal Khol]

I love how the concept of "Living Night" was in 3 Sanderson novels.

     First in Mythwalker with Ix.

Which didn't work

     Then with The Aether of Night

Which he still didn't like.

     Then finally in the Stormlight Archive

Where it finally found its home. After failing to place it in 2 other novels.

It's a great way to see how brandons writing skills evolved. The same concept in 3 novels.

[Honorless]

On 11/9/2019 at 6:33 PM, Dreamer said:

I don't understand who imprisoned them though

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Dreamer

[Mat]

I dunno if anyone is still talking about Aether of Night, but here I go:

I thought it was an okay book. I didn't think it was bad but it wasn't up to par with what we know as Brandon Sanderson. We were warned, though, so I can get past that. I had a few problems, though.

For one, I didn't like how Hern was portrayed throughout the book. He was constantly referred to as an idiot, rude, and never had a single good trait throughout the book. I wish he had been in the beginning more so I could have humanized him more. It just seemed like he was over-described as a bad person.

The ending of the book seemed very rushed. I wish there had been more build-up to both the solution to the Forgotten and the bride problem. It felt stereotypical.

Eh. I thought it was still worth reading, and gave me something to do. 

[Honorless]

@Matrim's_Dice, how does Aether of Night compare with White Sand according to you? 

[Mat]

6 minutes ago, R J said:

@Matrim's_Dice, how does Aether of Night compare with White Sand according to you? 

I haven't read the manuscript for White Sand, if that's what you're talking about. I've read the graphic novel, but that doesn't really make sense in the context of the question.

[Karger]

On 2/10/2020 at 4:23 PM, Eternal Khol said:

*high pitched squeel*

How did you get a physical copy of MB prime?

 

[Eternal Khol]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

How did you get a physical copy of MB prime?

 

I had a couple printed

[Karger]

19 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

I had a couple printed

And then put them on amazon?

[Eternal Khol]

13 minutes ago, Karger said:

And then put them on amazon?

They sit in my nightstand XD

[Mat]

So I already reviewed this, but I have some other thoughts. This time they are compliments, since the last review was me pointing out what I didn't like.

I thought it was really smart to have Agaris be the twin in the prologue. He was later portrayed as the villain so it was cool to start the whole book thinking it was a good thing that he had 'defeated' Makkal.

Then, when Makkal was revealed to be the twin inside Reath's head, the whole thing was flipped because I assumed the voice was good. Now that it was Makkal I wasn't sure.

This little plot element I thought was a good thing. Again, in reference to my original post, I wish something similar had been done with Hern, so to humanize him.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Matrim's_Dice

[Honorless]

2 hours ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

So I already reviewed this, but I have some other thoughts. This time they are compliments, since the last review was me pointing out what I didn't like.

I thought it was really smart to have Agaris be the twin in the prologue. He was later portrayed as the villain so it was cool to start the whole book thinking it was a good thing that he had 'defeated' Makkal.

Then, when Makkal was revealed to be the twin inside Reath's head, the whole thing was flipped because I assumed the voice was good. Now that it was Makkal I wasn't sure.

This little plot element I thought was a good thing. Again, in reference to my original post, I wish something similar had been done with Hern, so to humanize him.

Speaking of Makkal, I thought it was very annoying how he volunteered just enough information to keep the plot going and refused to give away more info at exactly the points where things looked like they could be resolved in order to maintain narrative tension.

 

@Eternal Khol, was it ever said what exactly it was that allowed Makkal to go free or bond with Raeth's Aether? Other people have bonded Night before or touched it?

Was it that Raeth already had a bond rather than seeking a Night Aether, in addition to his Aether being weak or something and the fact that he wasn't pushed into the Pool?

 

Also how come I didn't notice it before? Pool! Shardpool! Those things could've been Perpendicularities!

Huh, Ruin was also imprisoned in a Perpendicularity.

The Elantrians also had a Pool...

Were the Aedin accidentally tossing their criminals into the Cognitive Realm?

[Eternal Khol]

2 hours ago, R J said:

was it ever said what exactly it was that allowed Makkal to go free or bond with Raeth's Aether? Other people have bonded Night before or touched it?

He could’ve went free if he wanted.. but the only other people who were bonding Night were the Dari, who were Agaris’ pawns. Makkal sensed a “taint” in them so he never left when any of them bonded it.

 

2 hours ago, R J said:

Also how come I didn't notice it before? Pool! Shardpool! Those things could've been Perpendicularities!

I thought that was common knowledge 

Macen

I have read White Sand and Aether of Night, and I don't know why they're not published because I loved both of them.

Brandon Sanderson

 Aether is not published because I feel that I wrote two different books and didn't blend them together very well.  There is the kind of farcical, Shakespearean, switched places, silliness, and it's fun, but it's like a mistaken identity almost sort of stuff and romance and things like that mixed with these dark things are coming out of the shard pool and destroying the world.  And those two stories never meshed together well enough for me to want to publish them.

Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014)

 

2 hours ago, R J said:

Were the Aedin accidentally tossing their criminals into the Cognitive Realm?

Probably XD

Edited May 21, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Honorless]

12 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

He could’ve went free if he wanted.. but the only other people who were bonding Night were the Dari, who were Agaris’ pawns. Makkal sensed a “taint” in them so he never left when any of them bonded it.

Isn't the point of imprisonment, you know, imprisonment?

Why was Agaris still trapped in his pool then?

[Eternal Khol]

1 hour ago, R J said:

Why was Agaris still trapped in his pool then?

at first it was like they were in solitary isolation.all alone with no way to contact anyone else. 
Then when their Aethers(which theyre trapped in) were bonded they went from being in solitary to minimum security. Still in prison, but with more privileges 

In a way, its like Ruin’s prison(after the twins Aether’s were bonded) They can see the world, they just cant interact with it in any meaningful way. They’re impotent 

 

“Agaris bellowed silently in anger.  “What good is that if I am shuttered away in your void!” he demanded.  “A God is no God if he cannot rule!” The chuckling continued.  “Oh, Agaris,” it said.  “Do not fret so.  Your prison is not absolute.” Agaris paused.  “I can free myself?” he demanded. “No, I doubt it,” Decay replied through the void.  “But, if you are clever, you will find a way to contact your world, to influence its people.”

“I can touch the world?” Agaris asked slowly. “Well, not the world itself.  But you can touch the minds of those who dwell therein,” Decay replied.
 

Agaris was always the more clever one. He couldn’t directly shape the world he wanted, but he could appear to people and guide them.

Vae annitor was built around his Shardpool. The religion was about him. The city was covered with artwork of him. And he was still going to get to wipe out his brothers Aethers. All while trapped in a pool

Edited May 21, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Mat]

12 hours ago, R J said:

 

@Eternal Khol, was it ever said what exactly it was that allowed Makkal to go free or bond with Raeth's Aether? Other people have bonded Night before or touched it?

Was it that Raeth already had a bond rather than seeking a Night Aether, in addition to his Aether being weak or something and the fact that he wasn't pushed into the Pool?

 

Also how come I didn't notice it before? Pool! Shardpool! Those things could've been Perpendicularities!

Huh, Ruin was also imprisoned in a Perpendicularity.

The Elantrians also had a Pool...

Were the Aedin accidentally tossing their criminals into the Cognitive Realm?

So I thought about this and think I have an answer. Or a theory, or something.

I think Raeth bonded the Night Aether because he wasn't fully submerged. Only a drop touched him, so he didn't die.

But I also think that the pool was a Perpendicularity, a doorway to the Cognitive Realm. @R J already said this, but I also think this was where Makkal was kind of 'trapped'. This is why Raeth could hear Makkal in his mind. He bonded the Night Aether, a Perpendicularity, and Makkal was able to access his mind because the drop touched Raeth.

 

So there, that's my mini-theory. Thoughts?

[Honorless]

On 5/21/2020 at 10:36 PM, Matrim's_Dice said:

So I thought about this and think I have an answer. Or a theory, or something.

I think Raeth bonded the Night Aether because he wasn't fully submerged. Only a drop touched him, so he didn't die.

But I also think that the pool was a Perpendicularity, a doorway to the Cognitive Realm. @R J already said this, but I also think this was where Makkal was kind of 'trapped'. This is why Raeth could hear Makkal in his mind. He bonded the Night Aether, a Perpendicularity, and Makkal was able to access his mind because the drop touched Raeth.

 

So there, that's my mini-theory. Thoughts?

Are you suggesting that the God Aethers were Perpendicularities?

I mean, the Pool was a Perpendicularity but is the Night Aether by itself also one?

It does seemingly teleport, and that kind of transportation usually involves the Cognitive or Spiritual Realms within the Cosmere. Elsecallers are supposed to be able to create mini-Perpendicularities

 

Hmm... Ruin was imprisoned in the Cognitive Realm. Because the Spiritual Realm does not care about location so imprisoning a Shard there sounds weird, and Preservation is said to have specifically given up his Cognitive aspect to imprison him. So the Well is sort of a pocket realm of sorts within the Cognitive...

I made this thread a while ago if you're interested in this topic:

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! This was very interesting

 

Some thoughts regarding Ferrous & Bestarin that I had over on Discord:

It seems a Ferrous Bonded, upon choosing to be a Corpate (the vehicles) or the foundational support structure of large constructions (which can, in addition to providing immense structural support also provide heat or lighting), have their bodies transform into a metallic substance which is then sculpted  into the needed forms. I previously assumed that their bodies secrete the metallic matter and they were entombed within the structure.

It seems that all Ferrous Bonded have the ability to communicate with Corpates, the ones that choose to do so are called Nurturers.

We don't know if the sculptors need to be Ferrous Bonded as well, or the nature of the Corpate-Nurturer Bond

Bestarin can have animal parts grafted upon injury/amputation. The relatively reduced fear of such bodily harm puts them on the frontlines, plus lack of direct magical abilities means that they are usually skilled combatants.

The animal body part is completely integrated into the host's body. It's difficult to tell if they automatically become proficient in the usage of their new limbs. It seems possible from the text that the strength of a Bestarin Bond can be measured by how quickly the graft takes, how other factors... factor in, I don't know.

We don't know what grafting magical creatures such as Kandra would do.

Edited June 7, 2020 by R J

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Just finished the book an hour or two ago, my thoughts seem to be pretty similar to everyone else's:

• Things felt too rushed after the fake defeat of the shadow people. Almost felt like a sequel stuffed into a couple chapters. It at the very least should've been a couple chapters longer.
• Wish we saw more from the other Aether types. I don't think we even know what two of the Aethers physically look like when they're on a person?
• Illuminous felt underpowered compared to Night. Maybe we just didn't see its full potential, I don't know, but it felt kinda meh compared to the latter's power.
• The ending to the bride thing... was not great. Both ethical issues with some of the resolutions and just how very suddenly it was done. I like the idea of solving them over time instead of all at once (ex. one dying in an attack, Raeth's identity getting revealed and nullifying one's threat, perhaps a better-done version of the ending for the breast hoop lady could be done to remove her from the picking while having her actually choose to marry someone else rather than it being sprung upon her, etc, narrowing it down). The "we all know some of these excuses are utter chull dung, but right now we don't care too much" with things like the excuse for Nahan could still be sorta funny to keep.
• Wish the bride choices felt better fleshed out. Although, I'll say I DON'T actually want too much of a "which will he choose", because that sorta thing just isn't something I love. Although I trust Sanderson could possibly pull it off better than I usually see it done, so I probably wouldn't hate it too much. Besides, having one choice as a PoV character makes it kinda obvious how it'll end. I GUESS a "choose one for political reasons or the one I want" is at least an improvement over "uWu too many people want to have sexual relations with my hot self". 

Some other thoughts:

• I didn't actually mind the contrast between the serious and not-as-serious tones. With the exception of the final two chapters, I didn't really notice it too much.
• I kinda like the idea of a Vessel having children inherit some of the power but without the Intent limitations being as strong. Could also be interesting if they dilute the power the parent Vessel has accessible.
• That kissing-someone-he-thought-was-trying-to-assassinate-him-as-she-jumps-out-the-window was just...... weird. Definitely hope the start to their romance is changed away from that lol. This is honestly one of maybe three scenes I actively disliked in the book (and I didn't even necessarily dislike the rest of the scene, but for whatever reason, that moment gets on my nerves more than it should lol).
• The way D'Naa just freaks when he rules her out felt like a BIT of an overreaction. Juuuuust a tad.
• Tbh I kinda wish we saw more bonding time during the late night things. They just moved along to "spilling all the secrets" rather quickly. Granted, there are so many books where characters REFUSE to communicate that I do appreciate that they at least did so here.
• I maaaaaay be a bit of a sucker for pure, non-sexual love scenes, like when they pretty much accidentally fell alseep cuddling. I'm glad that that scene didn't turn sexual like it would in some books. I like the cuteness.

Thoughts about whenever it gets finalized:

• Curious how much of the characters will be carried over. If Sanderson replaces any, I'm sure it'll be for good reason, but I'll be sad to see them go, even if it's for the betterment of the story.
• While I'm sure changing Shards will have to affect worldbuilding, potential sequels, etc, I feel like the two real Shards showed up so few times that swapping them for others could probably be done without affecting the book itself too much.
• I like the idea I saw suggested of the Senators mostly figuring out who Raeth was, and him having to be careful to not piss them off enough for any of them to reveal it.

Sorry if there's typos or some things don't make sense, I stayed up wayyyyy too late finishing this book and I have not slept yet. Might edit it to neaten it up a bit in the morning (or probably afternoon) when I wake up.

Edit: tweaked some of what I said to make a bit more sense. Also, had some more thoughts:

• Amberite might seem too similar to Blade and possibly Plate in Stormlight. Perhaps in the Aether rewrite, they can focus more on the other possibilities Amberite has, besides just plain sword and armor? For example, trapping enemies is something we see a couple times in duels but I don't think we ever see in actual battle.
• I've seen people say Verdant feels pretty similar to Cultivationspren. While I agree, I don't think it really needs to change.
• I probably just missed the explanation from tiredness, but I honestly can't figure out what Bestarin's powers are, honestly. Something about grafting animal skin?
• Ferrous was also sorta unclear to me. Some can turn themselves into immortal machines, and others can.... do something? And some turn themselves into fancy pillars because why not give your life to become a pillar? I'm sorta confused. Not sure if Sanderson wants to get this dark, but a reveal that a lot of them weren't completely willing could explain it. Then again, we already had "it's legal to rape as long as you kill them after" in Mistborn, so I don't know if he cares too much about the world being dark....
• The Forgotten might seem too similar to the Midnight Essence, which is a shame. I kinda liked the "is it actually their ancestors or not" worry, but I'm guessing it may be tweaked a bit.
• We get told Night has limitless possibilities, but pretty much see nothing besides teleportation, a giant cushion, and threatening a dude in prison. Also, it seemed pretty obvious to me the moment they said "maybe it's similar to Illuminous" that it would teleport self rather than others.
• Illuminous really should have been more similar to Night.
• The Dari all just going along with not a single one complaining didn't really seem right. I wish at least a couple would rebel, it could be interesting. Or at least some being a bit more conflicted. Also, we didn't IMO really get enough connection to whatshisname that was Raeth's friend who became evil.
• The twist of "they were actually killing everyone they teleported at the end" was a surprise to me, honestly. I hope it gets kept. The horror as you realize "oh, he just accidentally gave them exactly what they wanted" was good to me, though I think it suffered from the ending being too fast still (but that might've just been reading-it-at-3-am syndrome).
• Pacing for the very ending felt even more "too fast" compared to the rest of the ending. It just *happened* out of nowhere, and not in the good Sanderlanche way. It definitely had a good partial Sanderlanche, and I've probably read worse, but for obvious reasons it's not up-to-par with his published works.

There were definitely some funny typoes, at times. Also, I still have yet to EVER hear the world "maladroit" outside of a Sanderson work, if I'm being honest.

With Sanderson's 6-draft system, assuming he used it back then, version 3 would be the version that had gone through alpha but NOT beta readers, correct?

I may reorganize this in a bit, to put similar thoughts near each other. I'm less tired than last night, but I DID still just wake up, but wanted to get my new thoughts down before I forgot.

Edited June 18, 2020 by beewall
adding a bit more, and rewording some stuff

[Eternal Khol]

I'm reading and I'm at the point where Raeth uses his Night Aether to create armor for the first time, but he forgot to make joints, so he cant move.

He then thinks to himself That "Having the power and knowing how to use it were two different things."

Is it just me or is this very reminiscent of Rashek after Ascending and trying to fix, but ruining, Scadrial?

 

I feel like there might of even been a line like that somewhere in the Mistborn trilogy, if anyone cares to expand.