SzethIsBadAsHell

Who are the Returned on Scadrial

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As the Cosmere gets bigger we start to see similarities on different Pllanets in the Cosmere. Two of them have made shardblades. One thing that next popped out to me is that several planets have some form of cognitive shadow that is persistent . Roshar have Heralds and the Fused . Sel  has  Elantrians. Nalthis has The Returned . I’m not sure if the Shades on Threnody are Cognitive shadows but anyways . I’m seeing a pattern . I’m thinking the shards need some type of Cognitive shadow to serve as Agents on the planet . So I’m asking what are the Cognitive Shadows on Scadrial . At first I thought it was the mist wraiths . They would preservations Form of shadow . But knowing what a cognitive shadow is I know it can’t be the mistwraiths . They were never alive as a person and came back to life . Then I wondered if steel inquisitors were. Again same problem . They never died and came back .the only person that has died and came back was Kelsier. And one doesn’t equal enough to be a system . It’s just one irregularity .So can you guys speculate with m . Does it seem that every planet has a type of cognitive shadow ? And if so what is the cognitive shadow on Scadrial 

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I wouldn't say that every planet would always have Cognitive Shadows. All of the ones we've seen have been deliberate (or at least willing) creations by the Shard. So some Shards not creating them and some Shards creating them works out. The only CS we've seen on Scadrial would be Kelsier, and that took some fast talking on his part.

We have no idea what the process is for Threnody, other than it seems to involve something from Ambition dying nearby.

 

Elantrians are not Cognitive Shadows, by the way. They never died. They were more in a state of suspended biological animation than anything else.

Edited by RShara
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3 hours ago, RShara said:

Elantrians are not Cognitive Shadows, by the way. They never died. They were more in a state of suspended biological animation than anything els

Thanks for that knowledge . They resembled the returned so much I just assumed they were the same thing. And when I say returned I mean thier true forms . How Vasher looked when he revealed hisself to Susebron . 

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14 hours ago, RShara said:

The only CS we've seen on Scadrial would be Kelsier

Not quite true, there was also the one that Hoid rode on into the Well of Acsension in The Secret History. We don't know who they were and what happened to them, but still. Also, my understanding is that TLR as a Sliver could have chosen to hang around indefinitely after his death, he just didn't. Ditto Leras and Ati. But what about the chosen Heroes who took the power of the Well prior to Alendi/TLR? IIRC, Sanderson indicated that there were some.

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5 hours ago, Isilel said:

Not quite true, there was also the one that Hoid rode on into the Well of Acsension in The Secret History. We don't know who they were and what happened to them, but still. Also, my understanding is that TLR as a Sliver could have chosen to hang around indefinitely after his death, he just didn't. Ditto Leras and Ati. But what about the chosen Heroes who took the power of the Well prior to Alendi/TLR? IIRC, Sanderson indicated that there were some.

I wouldn't count Spanky since we don't know anything about where he came from, and he went Beyond just after that. And yes, TLR and the others could have stuck around as Cognitive Shadows, but they didn't, so they're...not Cognitive Shadows.

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53 minutes ago, The traveller said:

@SzethIsBadAsHell do you think that first generation kandra would have counted as such?

Kandra, even the First Generation, also aren't Cognitive Shadows. They're normal beings, but with a block between their Physical/Spiritual/Cognitive aspects. The spikes punch through that block so that they can be sapient.

Quote

Khyrindor

You've said that Returned count as Cognitive shadows "stapled" back into their bodies, and that the Heralds are at least similar. Would I be right in assuming that Elantrians could be considered as Cognitive Shadows as well, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Brandon Sanderson

Elantrians are something different. They don't actually "die" to be created.

Recognize that the term cognitive shadow is an in-cosmere theory, which I'm not going to comment on as the creator of the setting. The theory is this:

Investiture seeks sapience. It looks for someone to control it or, in some instances, spontaneously adopts personality.

A mind (cognitive aspect of a person) can become infused with Investiture. This acts a little like minerals with petrified wood, replacing the mind and personality with investiture.

When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul.

Others disagree with this, and think the soul itself persists. Still others reject the theory in its entirety.

linkhyrule5

Huh.

... Kandra are almost literally stapled to their bodies with Hemalurgy - would they count as such, to the in-setting scholars?

Brandon Sanderson

No, they wouldn't. They are beings who have had their souls twisted by Hemalurgy--the soul never left, it's just been messed up. Someone else who has a soul stapled to a body with Hemalurgy would count though.

Stormlight Three Update #6 (Jan. 20, 2017)

 

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I don't think this is about Cognitive Shadows but I can agree that almost every Shard has some sort of agents. And on Scadrial I would count Kandra as such, though I don't know if threre was anything like that while Ruin and Preservation were still around. But for Harmony they definitely act as such.

And I'm not sure if I would count Elantrians or Shades to be something like that as 'their' Shards are dead. Though it would be very interesting if some splintered  Shards left some sort of agents behind as they expected Odium to come after them. I really like the idea but does it make any sense? 

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1 hour ago, Nnatel said:

I don't think this is about Cognitive Shadows but I can agree that almost every Shard has some sort of agents. And on Scadrial I would count Kandra as such, though I don't know if threre was anything like that while Ruin and Preservation were still around. But for Harmony they definitely act as such. 

:ph34r:

(I'm sorry I couldn't resist)

For the topic of the thread I agree on not every planet having Cognitive Shadows hanging around, as well as common elements of the Cosmere occurring on every world. Scadrial also doesn't have any Splinters floating around in any form.

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15 hours ago, The traveller said:

@SzethIsBadAsHell do you think that first generation kandra would have counted as such?

Actually I thought mistwraiths were Cognitive shadows . But I’m glad R’shara commented . I learned long not to ever doubt anything she says . It’s usually facts . Supported with WoB . I think she has them all memorized or something .  Anyways I thought I saw a pattern . The thing about Sanderson’s magic system is they are very complicated but also well defined thru his WOB. I wish other writers did this. 

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