Nalthis Star Chart Cognitive Anomaly. Rampant Speculation(but not too rampant).

[Karger]

9 hours ago, Honorless said:

Nothing can be truly stationary in space, maybe it maintains the same relative distance to Nalthis while orbiting, or at least that's what it looks like on the chart.

9 hours ago, Jofwu said:

I've pointed out elsewhere that it appears to be located at Nalthis' L5 Lagrange point, so I'm leaning towards the assumption that it follows Nalthis in orbit. (if that needs to be said)

I assumed it was in the CR where things can be stationary.  It is after all a cognitive anomaly not a physical one.

7 hours ago, The traveller said:

But if it were so, is it not at all possible that Khriss would call it some weird type of perpendicularity instead of cognitive anomaly..

Maybe she does not no what it is and so decides that charging through a hole that swallows things and does not return them is a bad idea.

6 hours ago, tyler274 said:

I posit that it is Silverlight or another Cognitive way station like the Ire had near Scadrial (but still close enough for Kelsier to be able to reach as a shadow)

I came up with that theory last night!  An IRI fortress that was built many years ago and since they want to be left alone and Nathis's CR is now regularly traveled so they put up some kind of disruptive magic and now anyone who tries to get close or study the thing can't.  Thus,  Cognitive Anomaly!

6 hours ago, FirstSelector said:

It is also worth noting that Endowment seems utterly unperturbed by Odium possibly getting free.  Maybe she has some huge ace-in-the-hole located at the anomaly, and thats also how she was able to interfere on Scadrial.

A CR deathstar that she has hidden from those pesky mortals?

[Honorless]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

I assumed it was in the CR where things can be stationary.  It is after all a cognitive anomaly not a physical one.

The chart is Physical.

Hmm, we don't know enough about the Cognitive Realm to make that statement actually.

People have theorized before that if travel through the Cognitive Realm is easier because uninhabited, un-thought of and unknown distances shrink, then perhaps when people become aware of the vastness of space, the Cognitive Realm will also change to reflect this.

So, distances in the Cognitive Realm might be more in flux than they appear, just like standing on a globe hurling through space.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Honorless

[Jofwu]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

I assumed it was in the CR where things can be stationary.  It is after all a cognitive anomaly not a physical one.

Yes, but a few things...

I've never given this terribly much thought but I wonder how the Cognitive Realm meshes with orbital mechanics. If Roshar and Braize are on different orbits the space between them changes. Sometimes they're on opposite sides of the sun. Does the path between them in Shadesmar change in some bizarre way, or are they stationary because of cognitive mumbo jumbo?

I've assumed the latter, personally. Maybe that's wrong.

In any case, this is a map of the Physical Realm so whatever this cognitive anomaly IS, it has a presence in the Physical Realm. It would be rather bizarre for the artist to map some cognitive thing onto a Physical Realm map if it has no physical presence, no? And so either way, whether it (and everything else in the CR) are shifting over time or whether it is stationary in the CR, my assumption is that this physical presence is orbiting with the planet.

[Karger]

2 minutes ago, Honorless said:

The chart is Physical.

2 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

In any case, this is a map of the Physical Realm so whatever this cognitive anomaly IS, it has a presence in the Physical Realm. It would be rather bizarre for the artist to map some cognitive thing onto a Physical Realm map if it has no physical presence, no? And so either way, whether it (and everything else in the CR) are shifting over time or whether it is stationary in the CR, my assumption is that this physical presence is orbiting with the planet.

But with the exception of spren I don't know any cognitive entities that exist in the physical.  Also I would hazard this map was almost certainly made from a CR perspective(that is how these people study most planets).

[Honorless]

20 minutes ago, Karger said:

But with the exception of spren I don't know any cognitive entities that exist in the physical.  Also I would hazard this map was almost certainly made from a CR perspective(that is how these people study most planets).

Then take it up with Peter or Isaac. This is a chart of the Physical Realm.

I don't know any more than anyone else here as to why a Cognitive object would manifest on the Physical, such a large one at that. Wait a minute... that alone qualifies it as a Cognitive Anomaly

There are the Shades on Threnody, alongside spren you should also count seons and skaze as Cognitive entities manifesting on the Physical.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Honorless

[Karger]

Just now, Honorless said:

Then take it up with Peter. This is a chart of the Physical Realm.

I see no reason why you can't make a physical realm drawing from the CR.  According to Khriss this is how they study planets that don't have a perpendicularity. 

2 minutes ago, Honorless said:

There are the Shades on Threnody, alongside spren you should also count seons and skaze

I was using the Rosharan term spren to avoid confusion.  I considered saying cognitive shadows or splinters but that makes another mess of issues.   However I guess it could be a hugenormus spren.

[Honorless]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

I see no reason why you can't make a physical realm drawing from the CR.  According to Khriss this is how they study planets that don't have a perpendicularity. 

I was using the Rosharan term spren to avoid confusion.  I considered saying cognitive shadows or splinters but that makes another mess of issues.   However I guess it could be a hugenormus spren.

Karger, what exactly are you trying to say? I never said you can't observe the the Physical from the Cognitive. I have read Arcanum Unbounded too.

Actually, you should just use Cognitive Shadows and Splinters. They are the more wider, technical terms.

[Aon Tia]

44 minutes ago, Karger said:

  An IRI fortress that was built many years ago and since they want to be left alone and Nathis's CR is now regularly traveled so they put up some kind of disruptive magic and now anyone who tries to get close or study the thing can't.

The only such fortress we have actually visited is in secret history, and Nazh knew exactly where to find it, so accurately that Kelsier has no trouble in finding them. 
The only thing they seemed to be relying on for their security purposes, were gaurds. Very standard stuff. 
If they had any special magical means of ensuring that no one could find them, then they would have used it then. As we know, there mission was extremely crucial to their plans and they had probably been waiting for a long long time for Leras to die and preservation’s shard to become vessel-less. 
so, I doubt that it is an iri fortress

[Honorless]

35 minutes ago, Karger said:

I see no reason why you can't make a physical realm drawing from the CR.  According to Khriss this is how they study planets that don't have a perpendicularity. 

I was using the Rosharan term spren to avoid confusion.  I considered saying cognitive shadows or splinters but that makes another mess of issues.   However I guess it could be a hugenormus spren.

Why would Khriss and Nazh mark a giant Splinter (spren is a Roshar-specific term) that they encountered on the Cognitive Realm on the orbit of Nalthis in a Physical map of the system?

[Karger]

31 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Karger, what exactly are you trying to say? I never said you can't observe the the Physical from the Cognitive. I have read Arcanum Unbounded too.

That I am pretty sure they made this map from the CR.  Otherwise how would they be able to detect the asteroid belt.  You would need extraordinarily good equipment that they don't yet have on Nalthis.  Even if this is a map of the physical realm therefore they would have good reasons to include a CR anomaly especially if it was a potential danger.

31 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Actually, you should just use Cognitive Shadows and Splinters. They are the more wider, technical terms.

But Kesleir is a CS and during secret history he was not visible.  I could also say splinter but Returned are splinters.  I thought spren might make more sense.

8 minutes ago, The traveller said:

The only such fortress we have actually visited is in secret history, and Nazh knew exactly where to find it, so accurately that Kelsier has no trouble in finding them. 
The only thing they seemed to be relying on for their security purposes, were gaurds. Very standard stuff. 
If they had any special magical means of ensuring that no one could find them, then they would have used it then. As we know, there mission was extremely crucial to their plans and they had probably been waiting for a long long time for Leras to die and preservation’s shard to become vessel-less. 
so, I doubt that it is an iri fortress

That IRI fortress was not in a well traveled part of the CR.  It is completely possible that they use a lower level of security then a place where trade and regular caravans are a thing.  Also Nazh is one of the most skilled and best trained worldhoppers we know of.  Of course he would know immediately where they were.  They actual expedition of the IRI did have and use some kind of anti shard tec to keep Ruin from spotting them.

Just now, Honorless said:

Why would Khriss and Nazh mark a giant Splinter (spren is a Roshar-specific term) that they encountered on the Cognitive Realm on the orbit of Nalthis in a Physical map of the system?

Many splinters have a physical realm presence(like spren).

Edited November 8, 2019 by Karger

[Honorless]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

That I am pretty sure they made this map from the CR.  Otherwise how would they be able to detect the asteroid belt.  You would need extraordinarily good equipment that they don't yet have on Nalthis.  Even if this is a map of the physical realm therefore they would have good reasons to include a CR anomaly especially if it was a potential danger.

Many splinters have a physical realm presence(like spren).

Ah, see? This is why I keep telling you to elaborate! This makes much more sense

Yup, they've taken info on all the other systems primarily from the CR, don't see why or how this time would be any different.

Yes, a giant creature, like from Star Wars, just submerging and reemerging from the Cognitive in the middle of the emptiness of space. Following behind Nalthis, kind of like the ancient Nordic myths of the wolves that chased the sun and the moon. That's an anomaly, right there, all right.

[+Child of Hodor]

The anomaly seems planet or similar space object sized, but that could be deceiving. It is also odd for a planet sized object to be in the same orbital trajectory as another planet.

I'm assuming it orbits the sun and isn't a stationary anomaly that Nalthis passes through as it orbits. Would think that would come up in Warbreaker, if the planet passed through a big thing of space mist once a year. 

My initial interpretation is their is some sort of cognitive realm bleed over to the physical that is clouding what is in there. Could be Vax, it is misty / cloudy looking like the cognitive realm on Scadrial which a confused Ati mistook for Vax. 

My other thought is something from the physical realm and the cognitive realm swapped. Silverlight? 

Would make sense for the system with worldhoppers known as "the Five Scholars" to be home to Silverlight AKA Cosmere U. They would not have had to found Silverlight, necessarily. 

I can't find a WoB that says Silverlight has a Shard, but a common theory is that it does. Not sure Endowment would like sharing the system .. unless it was given to another Shard as a gift. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Child of Hodor

[Honorless]

8 minutes ago, Karger said:

Quote

Actually, you should just use Cognitive Shadows and Splinters. They are the more wider, technical terms.

But Kelsier is a CS and during secret history he was not visible.  I could also say splinter but Returned are splinters.  I thought spren might make more sense.

Ugh, more problems with Cosmere terminologies!

Just type out the complete explanation of what entities you're referring to then, I guess. I usually do.

[Aon Tia]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Also Nazh is one of the most skilled and best trained worldhoppers we know of.  Of course he would know immediately where they were.  They actual expedition of the IRI did have and use some kind of anti shard tec to keep Ruin from spotting them.

But Kelsier was not trained at all. He found it easily. There was zero special magic security. And ruin could not spot them, because they were Based outside Scadrial and he was too busy and too invested to take his attention away from Scadrial even for a second! He was in direct conflict with another shard, that inhibited him greatly. 
 

2 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I'm assuming it orbits the sun and isn't a stationary anomaly that Nalthis passes through as it orbits. Would think that would come up in Warbreaker, if the planet passed through a big thing of space mist once a year. 

agreed. 

 

3 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I can't find a WoB that says Silverlight has a Shard, but a common theory is that it does. Not sure Endowment would like sharing the system .. unless it was given to another Shard as a gift.

And this is my problem with silverlight idea. I don’t think it would be considered an anomaly if they know exactly what is causing it. And I do not see Edgli to be ok with its presence so close to her planet, or in her system even..

[Honorless]

6 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

The anomaly seems planet or similar space object sized, but that could be deceiving. It is also odd for a planet sized object to be in the same orbital trajectory as another planet.

I'm assuming it orbits the sun and isn't a stationary anomaly that Nalthis passes through as it orbits. Would think that would come up in Warbreaker, if the planet passed through a big thing of space mist once a year. 

My initial interpretation is their is some sort of cognitive realm bleed over to the physical that is clouding what is in there. Could be Vax, it is misty / cloudy looking like the cognitive realm on Scadrial which a confused Ati mistook for Vax. 

My other thought is something from the physical realm and the cognitive realm swapped. Silverlight? 

Would make sense for the system with worldhoppers known as "the Five Scholars" to be home to Silverlight AKA Cosmere U. They would not have had to found Silverlight, necessarily. 

I can't find a WoB that says Silverlight has a Shard, but a common theory is that it does. Not sure Endowment would like sharing the system .. unless it was given to another Shard as a gift. 

I'm for the planet in the Cognitive Realm theory. That bypasses the orbital mechanics problem while still accounting for the object's apparent shape. If Shards can be shoved into the Cognitive Realm then planets are small game.

Not a fan of the Silverlight theory. Khriss and Nazh would have just marked it as Silverlight. Why would they put themselves so near a Shard anyway? When all they want to do is observe things unimpeded. Also judging from Edgli's letter, she is not particularly fond of worldhoppers.

[Karger]

10 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Ugh, more problems with Cosmere terminologies!

Just type out the complete explanation of what entities you're referring to then, I guess. I usually do.

My posts are often too verbose as is.  However if you need me to elaborate I am more then happy to.

9 minutes ago, The traveller said:

But Kelsier was not trained at all. He found it easily. There was zero special magic security. And ruin could not spot them, because they were Based outside Scadrial and he was too busy and too invested to take his attention away from Scadrial even for a second! He was in direct conflict with another shard, that inhibited him greatly. 

As I said previously there may be good reasons it had lower level security.

[Bigmikey357]

Crazy oddball theory. We know that Adonalasium built the entire Rosharan system for some reason. What if that anomaly is another one of his experiments? He could have some type of construct in every system except for Scadrial which was rebuilt at least twice. Think, he could have planted so much stuff out there in anticipation of his eventual shattering. As to what it is or what it does, under my theory it could be practically anything. 

If not from Uncle Addy though, it could be an Investiture storehouse maintained in the CR by Edgli herself. She seems pretty confident that she can outright murder Odium if he wants to throw down despite his record. I thought she may be delusional. If she's holding a big hammer in reserve then she may be right.

[Pathfinder]

Tinfoil hat theory. The anomaly is the bit of ruin hanging out that when the planet of Nalthis came across it in its rotation around the sun happened to be the moment Vasher and his wife made nightblood. That is why nightblood has some ruin, and why making nightblood seems to be a unique occurrence. This would be especially twisted because it would mean Vasher wouldn't have needed to kill his wife, because nightblood would be unable to be replicated till the planet was in alignment again. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Friendshipspren]

Ok I have a theory too. Well not a theory , more a exciting guess.

Could that be whatever's left of Ambition ?

I mean , perhaps she fled from Threnody and with Endowment's aid was able to fight Odium off . That would explain why Egdli is so confident she can deal with Rayse .  She has beaten him once already.

But maybe it was too late for Ambition by then and she got splintered and the Shard's cognitive aspect now follows around Nalthis ?

It's possible , I mean so far we know of only 2 non human shard vessels , Uli da who was Sho del and Egdli who is possibly a dragon. Maybe they have or had some sort of solidarity and Uli Da thought she might help her. 

Endowment might have supported her since she wasn't violating the Pact. 

Maybe she didn't expect her to remain around but once she died , the cognitive splinter like imprinted on her and she's stuck with it now.

At best she's a good friend and Uli da is dead and that's nothing more than her corpse , at worst she's a hypocrite who's violating the Pact by associating with a camouflaged shard . Although she wouldn't technically be violating it since Uli da isn't actually on the same planet as Egdli.

Yeah , I know this is probably completely or atleast partially wrong. But it's exciting  

 

Then there's this possiblity.

What if Egdli didn't help Uli da ?

What if she was able to scare off odium somehow but didn't lift a finger to help Ambition ?

Now we know Odium is infamous for killing Shards and stuffing thier corpses in the CR ? Maybe that's what happened here ? 

Like maybe endowment wasn't really ok with it but didn't want to confront odium after all and odium couldn't go out against endowment but stuffed the corpse in the orbit of Egdli's claimed world just to spite her.

Khriss does mention that Ambition was splintered somewhere outside the Threnodite system . 

Also , a murdered shard stuffed into the cognitive not around a planet but in it's orbit. Yep , definitely counts as an anomaly . A known anomaly but an anomaly all the same. 

 

I doubt Egdli can access the investivure . If it were that simple I'm sure one shard or another would have already been to Sel and consumed the Dor . 

It might have other effects however. Like how on Sel the free investiture is allowing entire landscapes to becoming sapient or atleast sentiant .

I don't think the effect here is as profound as that if it is indeed Ambition's corpse but I guess there will some subtle effect on Nalthis because of it. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by PrinceGenocide
Added the part of endowment not helping ambition

[Friendshipspren]

12 hours ago, Honorless said:

 

2) Yolen - saw this as one of the options on the news thread, seems rather unlikely since Yolen is supposed to be hidden and Shards were supposed to leave it alone

 

 

plus there's this WoB on a draft of Mistborn era 1:

I haven't read this version though, so I don't know, I might be misinterpreting this. Apparently in this, Endowment had visited Scadrial (though quite a few Shards are supposed to have visited Scadrial after its creation by Preservation and Ruin) and had significant interactions with its Shards. If anyone has read this alt and knows, could you shed some light on this?

3). Mraize has stuff from Yolen 

 

Ok ,I have a few questions . 

1). Why aren't the shards allowed on Yolen ?

2). Woah what I thought Ati and Leras and now trell were the only shards to ever come within a light-year of Scadrial ?

3). What ? I knew he had stuff from across the shard worlds but I didn't know Yolen was among them . Which item was it ? What's it's significance ?

Can I get some more info and WoBs pls.

 

[Aon Tia]

2 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

What ? I knew he had stuff from across the shard worlds but I didn't know Yolen was among them . Which item was it ? What's it's significance ?

I think it was a white tree branch that was from yolen. We don’t know the significance of it. It might have some magical properties

Spoiler

It might be from the feinlife side of yolen

 

[Karger]

1 hour ago, The traveller said:

But Kelsier was not trained at all. He found it easily. There was zero special magic security. And ruin could not spot them, because they were Based outside Scadrial and he was too busy and too invested to take his attention away from Scadrial even for a second! He was in direct conflict with another shard, that inhibited him greatly. 

That is my point.  For the most part I don't think those guys had much reason to keep everything at defcon 3.  No one was usually in the neighborhood.  Also Kelsier was almost spotted a bunch of times.  Only his master thief skills kept him from getting caught.  On the other hand Nalthis has so many worldhoppers they have to go through customs.  I would keep them confused with some weird magic shield tec if I wanted to be left alone.

 

From what I hear so far we should ask Brandon the following.

Is the CR anomaly closest to.

A. A death star

B. A battery

C. An old science experiment.

D. A corpse

E. A fortess

F. Some spare Investature

G. A secret planet

Of H. Some giant spren that Endowment keeps around as a pet

Did I miss anything?

[Honorless]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

That is my point.  For the most part I don't think those guys had much reason to keep everything at defcon 3.  No one was usually in the neighborhood.  Also Kelsier was almost spotted a bunch of times.  Only his master thief skills kept him from getting caught.  On the other hand Nalthis has so many worldhoppers they have to go through customs.  I would keep them confused with some weird magic shield tec if I wanted to be left alone.

 

From what I hear so far we should ask Brandon the following.

Is the CR anomaly closest to.

A. A death star

B. A battery

C. An old science experiment.

D. A corpse

E. A fortess

F. Some spare Investature

G. A secret planet

Of H. Some giant spren that Endowment keeps around as a pet

pretty sure we'd just get RAFO'd

Quote

Did I miss anything?

12 hours ago, Honorless said:

Nothing can be truly stationary in space, maybe it maintains the same relative distance to Nalthis while orbiting, or at least that's what it looks like on the chart.

Things it probably isn't:

1) a dragon flying through the Cognitive Realm leisurely behind her planet (assuming Edgli is a Dragon)

Endowment is Invested on Nalthis, her Perpendicularity is also located there. A Shard probably isn't a Cognitive Anomaly, Devotion and Dominion would be better candidates for being called Cognitive Anomalies on their planet Sel's subastral

2) Yolen - saw this as one of the options on the news thread, seems rather unlikely since Yolen is supposed to be hidden and Shards were supposed to leave it alone

3) Obrodai - Obrodai is supposed to be one of Autonomy's and possibly a watery planet going by the OB epigraph. Got this one out of the way, just in case

4) Silverlight - why would it be considered an anomaly by Khriss and Nazh? They would just mark it as Silverlight. Also why would Silverlight be so close to a major Shardworld and this one in particular?

5) Dawnshard - also saw this as one of the options on the news thread. The Dawnshards seem to be Honor's so why would they be in the Nalthis system, when Endowment didn't seem to care much for Roshar?

Things it might be:

1) Nalthis's Cognitive Realm. But how would that even happen? Khriss and Nazh probably would know what it was (but then again, they just call it "Cognitive Anomaly" not "Unknown Cognitive Anomaly". It might simply be anomalous, as in Khriss & Nazh know what it is but still consider it an anomaly. Anomaly is defined as something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected). This would also raise some interesting questions about how the Five Scholars and Vivenna went to Roshar, and about the Expanse of Vibrance

2) Vax - all we know is that it is a place. And Ati did ask "Vax?" while in the Cognitive Realm

plus there's this WoB on a draft of Mistborn era 1:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

*reading a personalization request* Name a Shard not--

FirstSelector

Preservation... from the alternate [Well of Ascension] ending.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh! Oh, oh, oh, oh! What do you mean by that?

FirstSelector

I thought that those four were-- the four mist-people--

Brandon Sanderson

Oh the four mist-people that's-- Oh... *sighs* I gotta RAFO that, right?

FirstSelector

Well it's not canon technically.

Brandon Sanderson

No it's not canon... Okay I just have to dig back deep... But there's stuff--

FirstSelector

Star.

Brandon Sanderson

There's a star, just remember the star.

*writes*

"Endowment was there*"

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

I haven't read this version though, so I don't know, I might be misinterpreting this. Apparently in this, Endowment had visited Scadrial (though quite a few Shards are supposed to have visited Scadrial after its creation by Preservation and Ruin) and had significant interactions with its Shards. If anyone has read this alt and knows, could you shed some light on this?

3) a planet in the Cognitive Realm - since the Cognitive Anomaly seems to have hydrostatic equilibrium or a spherical shape, it might be the Cognitive Shadow of a sister planet to Nalthis that no longer exists or somehow got pushed into the Cognitive Realm

4) Endowment's "weapon" - it has a very high chance of having to do something with Endowment. She is a Shard of Adonalsium. If Autonomy can be a star (or even partially a star) then Endowment can pull off something like this

On the fence with these options:

1) Worldhopper outpost - unlikely to be a 17th Shard outpost. Maybe Ghostbloods since they have artifacts from First of the Sun and even Yolen... Could be an Ire outpost, since Khriss notes that "they have been at it for far longer than her" in Secret History

 

[Nnatel]

9 minutes ago, Karger said:

Is the CR anomaly closest to.

A. A death star

B. A battery

C. An old science experiment.

D. A corpse

E. A fortess

F. Some spare Investature

G. A secret planet

Of H. Some giant spren that Endowment keeps around as a pet

Well, the phrasing 'spare Investiture' made me thinking of the opposite -  something like a hole in the CR due to the lack of Investiture. You may want to add it to that list just to include all options we thought of.

 

18 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

1). Why aren't the shards allowed on Yolen ?

IIRC it was a part of original agreement between Shards (although I tried to find some WoBs and failed, so nothing certain here).

Edited November 8, 2019 by Nnatel

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

pretty sure we'd just get RAFO'd

Probably but I want to condense the information in this thread in my mind at least.

I think that everything else is mostly covered.

2 minutes ago, Nnatel said:

something like a hole in the CR due to the lack of Investiture

I don't think that is how the CR works.  Nothing in the CR(space) does not manifest at all.