Karger

Nalthis Star Chart Cognitive Anomaly. Rampant Speculation(but not too rampant).

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OK Worldhoppers this is it.  Khriss finally got back to us with that Nalthis star chart.  We picked up a cognitive anomaly.  Anyone got an idea to what it could be?

While I expect a large degree of rampant and occasionally ridiculous speculation try and keep things to the point where you don't just sound like you are trolling everyone(at least for a while).

Also the Star chart itself can be found here.

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The best one I've seen is that it's the strange domain where Endowment gives Returned the chance to well, Return. We don't have a lot of information on the deeper workings of Nalthis to be entirely honest - maybe we can make better theories when Nightblood comes out. (If it comes out :()

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1 minute ago, Inky said:

The best one I've seen is that it's the strange domain where Endowment gives Returned the chance to well, Return. We don't have a lot of information on the deeper workings of Nalthis to be entirely honest - maybe we can make better theories when Nightblood comes out. (If it comes out :()

Isn't she invested on the Nalthis itself.  Also why would she have to go anywhere?  She is a god who can use the spiritual realm.

Edited by Karger
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Cognitive BS? Like I said, we don't actually know that much about Nalthis. It could just be such a large area that when it was created on Nalthis, it imprinted itself in the PR. The planet moved in its orbit, but it didn't. 

Edited by Chaos
swearing
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Shards are confined to the system. Endowment should be able to reach any of the three planets, and their moons, and the anomaly without issue. Especially as she's completely unopposed. 

That said... These charts accompanied the essays, which means Khriss and Nazh. So if they're labeling it an "anomaly" and don't understand it, and this is literally the first we've heard if it... All speculation is rampant. We've got literally nothing to go on. Other than "this unexplained thing exists" 

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Nothing can be truly stationary in space, maybe it maintains the same relative distance to Nalthis while orbiting, or at least that's what it looks like on the chart.

Things it probably isn't:

1) a dragon flying through the Cognitive Realm leisurely behind her planet (assuming Edgli is a Dragon)

Endowment is Invested on Nalthis, her Perpendicularity is also located there. A Shard probably isn't a Cognitive Anomaly, Devotion and Dominion would be better candidates for being called Cognitive Anomalies on their planet Sel's subastral

2) Yolen - saw this as one of the options on the news thread, seems rather unlikely since Yolen is supposed to be hidden and Shards were supposed to leave it alone

3) Obrodai - Obrodai is supposed to be one of Autonomy's and possibly a watery planet going by the OB epigraph. Got this one out of the way, just in case

4) Silverlight - why would it be considered an anomaly by Khriss and Nazh? They would just mark it as Silverlight. Also why would Silverlight be so close to a major Shardworld and this one in particular?

5) Dawnshard - also saw this as one of the options on the news thread. The Dawnshards seem to be Honor's so why would they be in the Nalthis system, when Endowment didn't seem to care much for Roshar?

Things it might be:

1) Nalthis's Cognitive Realm. But how would that even happen? Khriss and Nazh probably would know what it was (but then again, they just call it "Cognitive Anomaly" not "Unknown Cognitive Anomaly". It might simply be anomalous, as in Khriss & Nazh know what it is but still consider it an anomaly. Anomaly is defined as something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected). This would also raise some interesting questions about how the Five Scholars and Vivenna went to Roshar, and about the Expanse of Vibrance

2) Vax - all we know is that it is a place. And Ati did ask "Vax?" while in the Cognitive Realm

plus there's this WoB on a draft of Mistborn era 1:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

*reading a personalization request* Name a Shard not--

FirstSelector

Preservation... from the alternate [Well of Ascension] ending.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh! Oh, oh, oh, oh! What do you mean by that?

FirstSelector

I thought that those four were-- the four mist-people--

Brandon Sanderson

Oh the four mist-people that's-- Oh... *sighs* I gotta RAFO that, right?

FirstSelector

Well it's not canon technically.

Brandon Sanderson

No it's not canon... Okay I just have to dig back deep... But there's stuff--

FirstSelector

Star.

Brandon Sanderson

There's a star, just remember the star.

*writes*

"Endowment was there*"

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

I haven't read this version though, so I don't know, I might be misinterpreting this. Apparently in this, Endowment had visited Scadrial (though quite a few Shards are supposed to have visited Scadrial after its creation by Preservation and Ruin) and had significant interactions with its Shards. If anyone has read this alt and knows, could you shed some light on this?

3) a planet in the Cognitive Realm - since the Cognitive Anomaly seems to have hydrostatic equilibrium or a spherical shape, it might be the Cognitive Shadow of a sister planet to Nalthis that no longer exists or somehow got pushed into the Cognitive Realm

4) Endowment's "weapon" - it has a very high chance of having to do something with Endowment. She is a Shard of Adonalsium. If Autonomy can be a star (or even partially a star) then Endowment can pull off something like this

On the fence with these options:

1) Worldhopper outpost - unlikely to be a 17th Shard outpost. Maybe Ghostbloods since they have artifacts from First of the Sun and even Yolen... Could be an Ire outpost, since Khriss notes that "they have been at it for far longer than her" in Secret History

Edited by Honorless
entered definition of 'anomaly' and WoB. Corrections: Ati, not Ruin (any more); after reading gatorgirl00's response maybe the anomaly could be Nalthis' Cognitive Realm; added shadow of a planet theory
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I've pointed out elsewhere that it appears to be located at Nalthis' L5 Lagrange point, so I'm leaning towards the assumption that it follows Nalthis in orbit. (if that needs to be said)

I really don't care at all for the theory that it's related to the Return having their visions and or Returning. That just seems really bizarre and convoluted. Endowment is on the planet. Her perpendicularity is on the planet. There's no reason for her to drag people halfway across the system to some other point in the Cognitive Realm to do that.

Far more likely that it's something we just... don't really know anything about. Maybe something we'll get teases about in Nightblood?

Calderis makes a good point that THIS star chart lists the thing as an anomaly. If Khriss (and presumably the other scholars) at Silverlight) would refer to it simply as an "anomaly"... If they don't' know what it is, I highly doubt WE can easily figure out what it is.

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Alright, my tinfoil hat is on, so here comes some baseless ideas (feel free to shoot it to pieces):

What if it's a..Cognitive Wormhole? Like a folding in Cognitive space that functions like an Oathgate? If you've seen Interstellar, then what I'm talking about is essentially the wormhole from that. have this WoB:
 

Quote

Questioner

 Is anyone gonna use a wormhole to worldhop?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, there you go, there's a RAFO. Yeah, yeah, okay, we got one for you right there.

Ad Astra 2017 (May 5, 2017)

Supporting this idea, albeit tentatively, is that fact that we know Ascension, or whatever Dalinar did during the end of OB, tore a hole between realms, connecting them. And we know the Cognitive realm is a flat plane. And we know that instantaneous travel of some sort is possible (i.e. Oathgates). So... *queue the tropey pencil through folded paper"

Here's another potentially supportive Wob:

Quote

Questioner

Could they use [Oathgates] to teleport to different galaxies?

Brandon Sanderson

That is what we call a RAFO, which means Read And Find Out. *laughter*

Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)

So basically what if the Anomaly is a pseudo-Oathgate wormhole leading to somewhere.

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26 minutes ago, Snipexe said:

What if it's a..Cognitive Wormhole? Like a folding in Cognitive space that functions like an Oathgate?

But if it were so, is it not at all possible that Khriss would call it some weird type of perpendicularity instead of cognitive anomaly..

 

27 minutes ago, Snipexe said:

whatever Dalinar did during the end of OB, tore a hole between realms, connecting them. And we know the Cognitive realm is a flat plane. And we know that instantaneous travel of some sort is possible

Dalinar manifested honor’s perpendicularity..

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13 minutes ago, The traveller said:

But if it were so, is it not at all possible that Khriss would call it some weird type of perpendicularity instead of cognitive anomaly..

 

Dalinar manifested honor’s perpendicularity..

Yes, and as a function of such tore through the realms. Sorry, I’m not super involved on the theory side of the fandom so I wasn’t really sure if people called it that, or not.

in regards to your first question, I don’t know. Like I said I knew it was likely untrue, and this is likely greatest piece of evidence disproving it. Unfortunately without any more info (*cough*like that Nalthis essay*cough*) I can’t really try to prove you wrong. The only thing I’ll say in defense is that it could be inaccessible from the cognitive realm and must be entered via the physical, but that’s with literally no evidence and is just pure speculation.

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2 minutes ago, Snipexe said:

Yes, and as a function of such tore through the realms. Sorry, I’m not super involved on the theory side of the fandom so I wasn’t really sure if people called it that, or not.

That is what a perpendicularity is. It essentially a realmatic black hole, pulling the realms together through weight of Investiture. The merger of realms is what allows transition. And I believe with the proper knowledge would allow you to "fold space" like you propose. 

Because of that, I doubt that's what this "anomaly" is. 

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1 hour ago, Snipexe said:

Wormhole..

Quote

Questioner

 Is anyone gonna use a wormhole to worldhop?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, there you go, there's a RAFO. Yeah, yeah, okay, we got one for you right there.

Ad Astra 2017 (May 5, 2017)

I do wonder though that what would be the difference in the case of a warmhole, would it be something that allows travel to other places directly into PR..? that would be interesting :)

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2 hours ago, Jofwu said:

I've pointed out elsewhere that it appears to be located at Nalthis' L5 Lagrange point, so I'm leaning towards the assumption that it follows Nalthis in orbit. (if that needs to be said)

Interesting. While I think it’s most likely something we haven’t seen before, the idea of it following the planet brings to mind what happened with Szeth’s soul, just on a much larger scale. 

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I posit that it is Silverlight or another Cognitive way station like the Ire had near Scadrial (but still close enough for Kelsier to be able to reach as a shadow)

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5 minutes ago, tyler274 said:

I posit that it is Silverlight or another Cognitive way station like the Ire had near Scadrial (but still close enough for Kelsier to be able to reach as a shadow)

But why would Silverlight be placed so close to Nalthis? Edgli doesn't seem to like incursions by worldhoppers (though that might just be Hoid)

I think Silverlight, as a worldhopper city in the Cognitive, would be either placed far away from any Physical place or near a nexus, like Roshar apparently is

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5 minutes ago, Honorless said:

But why would Silverlight be placed so close to Nalthis? Edgli doesn't seem to like incursions by worldhoppers (though that might just be Hoid)

I think Silverlight, as a worldhopper city in the Cognitive, would be either placed far away from any Physical place or near a nexus, like Roshar apparently is

Hence why I suggested it might be another outpost rather than the city itself.

 

On the other hand, a largish city might be exactly the kind of thing that would produce a Cognitive anomaly that would be of notable size on a star chart.

 

As for Endowment, I can't really say, but her anger seemed primarily directed at Hoid, and the Shard's interfering in each other's affairs.

 

Edited by tyler274
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@Honorless The thing with the alternate ending of WoA is that four mist figures show up and it's strongly implied that they stop Ruin from having Marsh kill Sazed.

After asking Brandom about this several times, he finally admitted that the mist figures are other Shards, and that one of them is Endowment*.  The star is likely that Shards manifesting on other planets is not as simple as "they showed up and yelled at Ruin."

While we note that this is not canon, it nevertheless suggests that Endowment has sufficient foresight to know that killing Sazed -- happening halfway across the galaxy -- would be a Bad Idea.

It is also worth noting that Endowment seems utterly unperturbed by Odium possibly getting free.  Maybe she has some huge ace-in-the-hole located at the anomaly, and thats also how she was able to interfere on Scadrial.

I don't believe this at all (personally my guess is Silverlight or similar) but it is interesting to consider. 

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38 minutes ago, tyler274 said:

I posit that it is Silverlight or another Cognitive way station like the Ire had near Scadrial (but still close enough for Kelsier to be able to reach as a shadow)

I do not think that Khriss would consider a cognitive way station like Ire or a substation of Silverlight to be an anomaly....

Edited by The traveller
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On 11/8/2019 at 0:38 PM, FirstSelector said:

@Honorless The thing with the alternate ending of WoA is that four mist figures show up and it's strongly implied that they stop Ruin from having Marsh kill Sazed.

After asking Brandom about this several times, he finally admitted that the mist figures are other Shards, and that one of them is Endowment*.  The star is likely that Shards manifesting on other planets is not as simple as "they showed up and yelled at Ruin."

While we note that this is not canon, it nevertheless suggests that Endowment has sufficient foresight to know that killing Sazed -- happening halfway across the galaxy -- would be a Bad Idea.

It is also worth noting that Endowment seems utterly unperturbed by Odium possibly getting free.  Maybe she has some huge ace-in-the-hole located at the anomaly, and thats also how she was able to interfere on Scadrial.

I don't believe this at all (personally my guess is Silverlight or similar) but it is interesting to consider. 

Thanks, @FirstSelector!

These Shards have too many secret weapons:

First, we have Honor's Dawnshards

Second, we might have Preservation's weapon

Spoiler

Leras seemed to be referring to something else. He mentioned the 16 Metals directly afterwards. But before that he mentioned that "the boiling point of water or the freezing point" was an indication of the "weapon [he] had buried". Whatever it was, he was either dismissive of it or thought it wasn't as directly relevant as the metals.

  Quote

"I needed a sign. Something he couldn't change. A sign of the weapon I'd buried. The boiling point of water, I think. Maybe its freezing point? But what if the units change over the years? I needed something that would be remembered always. Something they'll immediately recognize. Sixteen."

  Quote

Questioner

So, in Secret History, Fuzz mentions a weapon that he buried? Is that the atium, or is that something else?

Brandon Sanderson

*hums* Go ahead Joel. *Joel holds up RAFO sign*

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

Third, Odium's edge against other Shards

Quote

Galavantes (paraphrased)

The fact that Odium has bested other Shards implies he is more powerful. Is Odium inherently a more powerful Shard or is it a matter of his nature?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Both factors play a role.

A Memory of Light Raleigh Signing (Feb. 20, 2013)

 

Edited by Honorless
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The star charts were produced by Khriss and Nazh, presumably for use in Silverlight itself... If it were a Cognitive place of that kind, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't simply be marked with the name of the location and/or what it is. 

I really think this is something they don't understand. 

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16 minutes ago, Calderis said:

The star charts were produced by Khriss and Nazh, presumably for use in Silverlight itself... If it were a Cognitive place of that kind, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't simply be marked with the name of the location and/or what it is. 

I really think this is something they don't understand. 

Agreed.. I dont see why some sub-station of silverlight would be marked as an anomaly..

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The Cognitive Anomaly seems spherical, what if it is the Cognitive Shadow of a sister planet to Nalthis that no longer exists?

Or maybe it somehow got pushed into the Cognitive Realm? If Shards can be shoved into the Cognitive, what are mere planets?

Edited by Honorless
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If it is silverlight, it's possible that "cognitive anomaly" refers to the anomalous region of the cognitive realm that the city is located in. It's been heavily implied that silverlight doesn't have a physical realm analog (likely if you transitioned there, you would end up in space), which begs the question of how there's enough space in the cognitive to build a city there. Perhaps the anomaly is an expanded region of the cognitive realm where one would expect nothing (since no one is thinking much about that particular patch of space), and the anomalous property is that it exists at all, not that there happens to be a city there.

 

As for why Nazh didn't mark that silverlight was in the anomaly, we've seen exactly zero cities/non-natural structures marked on these charts so far. Perhaps it wasn't worth mentioning when it would be obvious to the users of the chart.

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So as I saw this and freaked out for a while as I really wanted anything more about Nalthis. But moving to thoughts I had. 

1) naming it anomaly definitely suggests that Khriss and Nash (and probably the rest of the Silverlight) don't understand how it works or what it is. Just to put it straight. But it is rather a characteristic place in CR so it can be a place that allows a worldhopper to navigate. Not that I find it to be the case. 

2) And here we go to a crazy theory I can't prove at all. What if it just appeared while creating Nightblood? We actually don't know the mechanics behind Awakening but there was involved a huge amount of Investiture and it could have some crazy side effects. 

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9 hours ago, Honorless said:

Vax - all we know is that it is a place. And Ati did ask "Vax?" while in the Cognitive Realm

How awesome would it be to finally know what Vax is.. 

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

The Cognitive Anomaly seems spherical, what if it is the Cognitive Shadow of a sister planet to Nalthis that no longer exists?

Or maybe it somehow got pushed into the Cognitive Realm? If Shards can be shoved into the Cognitive, what are mere planets?

Spooky.. I hope for the Sake of millions of people who lived on that planet that it is not true.

@Nnatel if it were true, that would make nightblood even more OP then I previously assumed. I mean, that amount of investiture alone, that could a cognitive anomaly....

interesting idea but such an anomaly then should have been formed on the planets CR itself..

Edited by The traveller
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