Reading Order Charts

[Jofwu]

Going to try and copy over a Reddit post I made, for people who aren't active there...

I posted a reading order chart yesterday. Some people have requested a version that shows ALL cosmere connections, which I partially shot down because (among other things) it would look like a complete mess with the number of lines zipping around. But I was reminded of a Discworld reading order guide which takes a different approach, and I couldn't help toying with the idea...

I've landed on two different concepts, and I'm interested in feedback!

There's a few things going on in these charts. They're trying to do several things at the same time, so to be more specific, I'm curious how well you think they accomplish each of these things.

1. Provide reading order guidance

2. Illustrate cosmere connections between books

3. Illustrate cosmere organization

4. Give visibility to future books and how they fit in

Feel free to comment on cosmetics (like color choice), but realize I threw these together pretty fast and these are definitely not meant to be final. (yeah, gray arrows are hard to see) Feel free to recommend changes to the arrows, (no spoilers please) but again realize that I haven't taken time to check them or give much thought myself.

 

Concept 1

The first concept simply takes my latest reading order chart and translates it into this radial layout. Reading order is handled by grouping books/series into "phases" (plus a few arrows). Read green first. Read blue second. Read orange whenever. Series (and worlds/systems) are grouped together. Ideally I would find a pretty way to label those (that doesn't interfere with arrows). There are four different "tiers" of connection arrows. Red indicates a strong recommendation to read the second sometime after the first. Orange indicates recommended order for other notable connections. Yellow indicates relatively minor connections. Gray indicates mere Easter eggs.

I was skeptical, but I think I like this one quite a bit. It's easy to make several versions with unpublished books and/or certain arrow tiers hidden for simplicity and clarity. (something like this as shown is going to be overwhelming rather than helpful for most new readers) I DO think it's a bit less clear and simple than the box chart I posted though.

 

Concept 2

The second concept goes a new direction...

I've listed the books here in publication order, which is perhaps the most commonly recommended reading order. They're actually grouped by year. (perhaps the year could be shown in a subtle way) The reading order would simply be the order that the books are listed... though you could permit people to break from that and follow a specific series they are interested in (in order). Whenever they're ready, they just jump back to where they left off in the main sequence. Books are colored by series. Might be a way to also indicate world. (an icon next to them?) This doesn't work so great for showing long-term future books, because putting them in any order feels too speculative, and on the design side I don't like having a chart that's half empty. So I've only listed future books that are on the horizon. It doesn't have to be a half-circle though. No reason I can't go around a full circle and give these more space.

Arrows work the same as in the previous concept. And I'd want to leave out some arrow tiers in versions intended for new readers. I think this concept is perhaps more clear for most new readers... but maybe they'd be even happier with a simple list, while the rest want something that groups the series together.

Thoughts?

[Ixthos]

I like both options, though if I were to choose I would go with the first option, with the books having the sequence they were written in as a number on the inside ring next to them. Someone who is reading Stormlight probably is more interested in continuing to the next Stormlight book, but someone interested in the order they were written would just need to see the numbers and follow them to the next one, which for some series would be right by them :-)

I would also make the sequence match the internal chronology, and use the colour code to indicate main series as well, so Mistborn era 2 would be between Stormlight 5 and 6, etc.

I like what you have done!

 

(Also, complete side note, but the Discworld chart seems to have a mistake: Thief of Time should connect to Nightwatch, shouldn't it? That was the background to Vimes travelling back in time.)

Edited November 5, 2019 by Ixthos
era 2, not 3

[Pagerunner]

I have said this to you before, but I'll say it again for the sake of those reading the thread: the four listed goals are not naturally aligned, and can in fact work at cross-purposes.

Quote

1. Provide reading order guidance

2. Illustrate cosmere connections between books

3. Illustrate cosmere organization

4. Give visibility to future books and how they fit in

Goal #1 is especially at odds with Goal #4, for example. Those who are looking at what to read next don't care about the stuff that hasn't been written yet. (Well, they shouldn't, at least. I won't overestimate the ability of people on the internet to worry.) Optimizing a graphic for one of the goals will often be at the expense of one of the others, and the challenge is in striking a balance between the two (or deciding to exclude one of the goals altogether.) Different charts, focused on different goals, may be the way to go. 

Now, about this latest suggestion in particular. The radial aspect of the chart greatly serves Goal #2. It's a surprisingly efficient use of space, especially if you can figure out how to do some sort of an interactive webpage that will pop up the details for each. (Which would be best after-the-fact, having read both of the books involved, which kind of goes against Goal #1. More on that later.)

I don't think Goal #4 is served by a single list, in any way, shape, or form. That's why I prefer your second option, which trims out planned books and keeps it on the published or near-to-be-published books. It manages to capture the other three goals fairly well:

1. I'm also a fan of publication order as a default, and this provides just enough information for those who want to go off-script and read things in a slightly different order. The colors tell you what you have to do. The lines tell you what you would be a good idea to do, with more urgent-looking lines being gooder ideas.
2. You've got all the lines, and they can go through the center of the circle to avoid getting too muddled. I'm very pleasantly surprised by how non-chaotic it looks.
3. By having a color for each major series, you start to touch on the different planets and all that good stuff. Any more in-depth, I think, would be best done as a separate chart with Goal #4.

There is a fifth goal I think you could touch on: apocryphal works. The White Sand manuscript is less essential, now that we've got all three graphic novels; but on a high level, if people are asking "What all comprises the Cosmere," that stuff like the post-WoR Jasnah scene, the Traveler reading, and Aether of Night are important to mention. The first two are very adjacent to canon. Aether is referenced in Stormlight, so it would introduce a couple of connection lines. Once you get any farther down the rabbit hole than that (Silence Divine reading, Mythwalker, Dragonsteel Bridge Four sequence, etc.), I think you'd be muddying the waters a little too much; that could go on the separate Goal #4 chart, perhaps. But a couple of the big ones could be good, maybe at the end of the chart.

With regards to your first chart. The big advantage in the "phases" option you pursued in the first chart is that you can put White Sand in Phase 1. Yes, the graphic novels were published afterward Bands of Mourning, but the manuscript was relatively widely available before that to those who were in-the-know, and the Trell scene still exists in the older form. Since it was written so early on, White Sand really is more of a work that others will reference; not one that references others. (That wasn't terribly well phrased. The connection lines are drawn away from White Sand, not towards White Sand.)

But to get back out of the weeds, and look at the big picture. A graphic like this should be made for a target individual, to answer a specific question that type of person has. Who are these optimized for? The person who's read all of them and wants to know what they missed? Or someone who hasn't read any of them? An interactive version with all the details is what the first person is looking for. But a newbie wouldn't be able to use that interactive version, since it would throw a bunch of spoilers at them. So they'd really only need the title colors and the red lines. I think the radial format is best for connections; you might be better focusing on that, and trimming out any reading order recommendations and doing that in a separate, simpler graphic.

[Jofwu]

@Pagerunner Yeah, I know you're not a big fan.

I agree that the goals are somewhat at odds with one another. Crowding each other out to some extent. Part of the reason I wanted to try these out was to see if I could find a format where they are simply LESS in one another's way (to a tolerable extent). One benefit of squeezing all these goals into a single image is that it's then easy to turn certain aspects on or off. (especially if someone's able to make an interactive version) Or at least, it's a benefit if I can do that without leaving too many gaping, awkward holes. But I think it may be doable. Blacking out all the unpublished books or some of the arrow types doesn't look terrible, in my opinion. So if I'm sharing it with a new reader, I can give them the copy that has unpublished books and all but the top-tier arrows turned off. Meanwhile, there's room for many other variants.

For an interactive version, I disagree that it's not ideal for general use. My thought would be that you set the defaults for a new reader... Then for someone who wants to know what they missed or who just wants to see all the connections, they simply turn everything else on. Throw a spoiler warning on the connections toggle. Or have a separate toggle that just prevents details about the connections from displaying. There's a few ways to do it I think.

Concerning future books in particular, I guess I have a soft spot for keeping them because it seems every time I post a reading order chart I see comments by people who haven't heard about some of Brandon's plans, so I figure that aspect has value. (There's FOUR Mistborn Eras? There's TEN Stormlight books? He's mentioned doing another Stormlight novella? The Threnody novel has a name?)

I don't expect to pull you away from your own preference. Just defending the time spent on it. The critique is valuable regardless. Oh, by the way, you should post your own somewhere. I'd like to add it to the list of charts in the r/cosmere wiki.

Speaking of your list, do you feel like there's any value to the second concept over your own list? I think my semi-circle works better (or at least looks better) if you want to draw connection arrows. But otherwise, doesn't seem to be any benefit over a vertical list. I guess some people may simply like the visual style of it. Maybe it would be fun to mirror it horizontally so that it's in a Cosmere C shape.

Good points about White Sand... I think you've convinced me to bump it up to Phase 1. I was sitting there thinking about how the Trell reference was fun to read AFTER BoM... But you make a good point about the Prose already being out there, and I suppose that one goes both ways.

And good points about apocryphal works. I don't dwell much on those myself, but I totally need to incorporate those... For my Concept 1 style, I think I'd prefer to put most of these adjacent to one another in some corner of the chart, and maybe have a special class of arrows pointing at them? And for Concept 2, I can't decide if it makes sense to stick them in order, throw them at the end, or list them off to one side... Need to think about all that... But you're right that there's high value in addressing these somehow.

[Jofwu]

Y'all, look what @Paleo made!

https://paleocrafter.github.io/reading-order/#/

Note it can be resorted into publication order (top right) and different arrows and book categories can be toggled. There are tooltips for most things, including details about each connection arrow.

We still have some plans for it, but at this point we'd really appreciate your feedback!

[Wander89]

Holy... that's awesome! I'm really liking the movements of the lines when you hover over. Might need a few little kinks but it's a great addition! I agree about the major connection between Warbreaker and Stormlight though.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Wander89

[Chiberty]

That's really cool! @Paleo Note that Oathbringer does not fade when novel is unchecked and SotD connection to Arcanum Unbounded displays the same message as White Sand does.

Edited November 9, 2019 by ChickenLiberty

[IcaroRibeiro]

Great work!

 

I would just put a Major Connection between Warbreaker and Oathbringer