Koloss17

New question about an aluminum compounder

11 posts in this topic

So, as I understand, which I may be wrong about, using hemalurgy to kill a non-Allomancer/feruchemist takes some of their soul, which I would connect to investure. Using four investure spikes, you can make a Koloss, right? And it is described in the books that you slowly lose humanity as you gain more spikes as you become a Koloss. Does that mean that an aluminum compounder would just end up making you less human?

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Using hemalurgy on anyone (assuming you actually manage to create a spike) rips off some of the victim's spiritweb. As far as 'losing humanity' goes with the koloss, it has to do with what they're is spiked with, not just how many spikes they have. They're specifically given iron spikes which have been used to steal physical strength (which can be taken from anyone) which causes the physical and mental transformation seen in the koloss.

Aluminum in feruchemy stores Identity, which is not the same as 'humanity'. It's more a marker of who you are and is the underlying mechanic that explains why two feruchemists can't use each others' metalminds. Now, someone storing Identity is more vulnerable to certain things than an ordinary individual but they're no less human for doing it. In fact, it's established in the Era 2 books that it's possible to briefly store all one's Identity and in fact doing so is required in a particular application of feruchemy. Minor spoiler for The Bands of Mourning in case you haven't read it:

Spoiler

Someone who has access to F-Aluminum and at least one other feruchemical power can store all their Identity and while in that state, store the trait of their other power in a metalmind. Because they have a completely blank Identity at the time, the metalmind will not be keyed to them but will instead be usable by anyone with access to the same feruchemical power.

 

Edited by Weltall
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25 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Using hemalurgy on anyone (assuming you actually manage to create a spike) rips off some of the victim's spiritweb. As far as 'losing humanity' goes with the koloss, it has to do with what they're is spiked with, not just how many spikes they have. They're specifically given iron spikes which have been used to steal physical strength (which can be taken from anyone) which causes the physical and mental transformation seen in the koloss.

Aluminum in feruchemy stores Identity, which is not the same as 'humanity'. It's more a marker of who you are and is the underlying mechanic that explains why two feruchemists can't use each others' metalminds. Now, someone storing Identity is more vulnerable to certain things than an ordinary individual but they're no less human for doing it. In fact, it's established in the Era 2 books that it's possible to briefly store all one's Identity and in fact doing so is required in a particular application of feruchemy. Minor spoiler for The Bands of Mourning in case you haven't read it:

  Hide contents

Someone who has access to F-Aluminum and at least one other feruchemical power can store all their Identity and while in that state, store the trait of their other power in a metalmind. Because they have a completely blank Identity at the time, the metalmind will not be keyed to them but will instead be usable by anyone with access to the same feruchemical power.

 

That is useful, no doubt about that, but the morph in the Koloss’ “humanity” as Elend Venture put it, have to with abnormal amounts of human souls merged into one body or the amount of human strength they are given?

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It's probably a bit of both really. They've got bits of 'extra soul' spliced onto their own (not very much though, an individual spike only steals a little bit) and because those spikes contain 'strength' they're doing something that would not be possible through a natural process. Contrast the effects on a koloss with Inquisitors who could come by the allomantic powers they get from spikes 'naturally' and have many more spikes with far less in the way of physiological changes. You'd probably get different warping if you tried spiking a person with, say, four zinc spikes or a mix of iron and zinc but there would still be warping.

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2 minutes ago, Weltall said:

It's probably a bit of both really. They've got bits of 'extra soul' spliced onto their own (not very much though, an individual spike only steals a little bit) and because those spikes contain 'strength' they're doing something that would not be possible through a natural process. Contrast the effects on a koloss with Inquisitors who could come by the allomantic powers they get from spikes 'naturally' and have many more spikes with far less in the way of physiological changes. You'd probably get different warping if you tried spiking a person with, say, four zinc spikes or a mix of iron and zinc but there would still be warping.

Personally I hope Copper Constructs (humans spiked with 4 copper instead of the Koloss' 4 iron) become a thing in era 3 or 4. An immense amount of mental capacity, memory, and intelligence... the Brain to the koloss' Brawn.

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36 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Personally I hope Copper Constructs (humans spiked with 4 copper instead of the Koloss' 4 iron) become a thing in era 3 or 4. An immense amount of mental capacity, memory, and intelligence... the Brain to the koloss' Brawn.

That would be cool!

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41 minutes ago, Weltall said:

It's probably a bit of both really. They've got bits of 'extra soul' spliced onto their own (not very much though, an individual spike only steals a little bit) and because those spikes contain 'strength' they're doing something that would not be possible through a natural process. Contrast the effects on a koloss with Inquisitors who could come by the allomantic powers they get from spikes 'naturally' and have many more spikes with far less in the way of physiological changes. You'd probably get different warping if you tried spiking a person with, say, four zinc spikes or a mix of iron and zinc but there would still be warping.

So does that mean that the Koloss are slightly dehumanized by too much investure in their body?

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2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

So does that mean that the Koloss are slightly dehumanized by too much investure in their body?

No, it's what's specifically being done to their spiritwebs rather than the (relatively minor) amount of Investiture involved that causes it. Inquisitors have many more spikes without the same degree of 'dehumanization' and Rashek is many orders of magnitude more Invested but still human.

Edited by Weltall
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12 hours ago, Weltall said:

No, it's what's specifically being done to their spiritwebs rather than the (relatively minor) amount of Investiture involved that causes it. Inquisitors have many more spikes without the same degree of 'dehumanization' and Rashek is many orders of magnitude more Invested but still human.

Thanks! I don’t exactly know how investure works in general, or about this whole thing about spiderwebs, but this at least tells me that hemalurgy doesn’t use investire as much as the person’s spiderweb.

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18 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Thanks! I don’t exactly know how investure works in general, or about this whole thing about spiderwebs, but this at least tells me that hemalurgy doesn’t use investire as much as the person’s spiderweb.

A person's spiritweb is composed of Investiture. 

The stolen pieces of people's souls are the Investiture involved in Hemalurgy. 

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3 hours ago, Calderis said:

A person's spiritweb is composed of Investiture. 

The stolen pieces of people's souls are the Investiture involved in Hemalurgy. 

So what I understand is that the pewter gives what the soul of brawn is; ripped and stupid. Also the spikes are put in the koloss in such a way that they upset or destroy the human’s spiritweb, dehumanizing them. Am I on the right track?

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