Toaster Retribution

Who dies in SA4?

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I hope no one very close to Kaladin dies in book 4. Guy deserves a good book for once.

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It's possible that Moash will die. I don't say this as wishful thinking, because I actually don't hate Moash, but more in view of the impact on Kaladin. It's already been brought up that Kaladin will probably have a death to motivate him, and I think Moash's could be a great one. Kaladin being Kaladin, he likely already feels that he let Moash down. The death would be a very interesting point in his arc, and feels like a very Sanderson thing to do. Perhaps Moash will even acheive some redemption first, just to make it hit that much harder. 

As for other people, I'm not sure. I don't think Adolin will die, but I think he'll have some serious character development. (At least, I hope so. He's currently one of my least favorite people to read, but I think that would change if there was a bit more to him.) I'm sure hundreds of unnamed extras will die, which I for one consider deeply tragic.

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8 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

 

I think the story might be better if he died.

:o How dare you! :(

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As little as I'll enjoy it, one of the bridgemen is probably going to die. I'm betting on either Rock or Sigzil.

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Don't kill me for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jashnah dies.

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27 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

Don't kill me for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jashnah dies.

Won't kill you lol, but personally I do not see the reason. She already had her fake out death that drove the narrative forward for Shallan. I could see it happening in the back five maybe, but I think it is too soon to kill her off in the front five. Although Brandon confirmed being a flashback character does not guarantee safety, there is a ton of mystery regarding Jasnah that I do not think can be told purely via flashback. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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35 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Won't kill you lol, but personally I do not see the reason. She already had her fake out death that drove the narrative forward for Shallan. I could see it happening in the back five maybe, but I think it is too soon to kill her off in the front five. Although Brandon confirmed being a flashback character does not guarantee safety, there is a ton of mystery regarding Jasnah that I do not think can be told purely via flashback. 

I just think that she's had so much build up as the most knowledgeable, powerful, and capable Radiant alive. While I understand that works for her being Shallan's mentor, she's kind a story breaker at the moment. It would be one thing if she shared her knowledge and experience to help other Radiants grow, but instead she seems to be hording information, which makes her a good target for a drama inducing in death, where the characters then have to struggle to make up for the absence of someone so essential.

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11 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

I just think that she's had so much build up as the most knowledgeable, powerful, and capable Radiant alive. While I understand that works for her being Shallan's mentor, she's kind a story breaker at the moment. It would be one thing if she shared her knowledge and experience to help other Radiants grow, but instead she seems to be hording information, which makes her a good target for a drama inducing in death, where the characters then have to struggle to make up for the absence of someone so essential.

Yeah I hear that a lot and I always disagree. There is a whole lot more to Jasnah than what Shallan thinks of her. Also Jasnah will in my opinion be in the background via ruling Alethkar till we get to the back five books where she will come to the forefront. If you are curious why I say that, there is a thread for that! lol. I wrote a huge one, I linked below. If you are so inclined, please give it a read. 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

I just think that she's had so much build up as the most knowledgeable, powerful, and capable Radiant alive. While I understand that works for her being Shallan's mentor, she's kind a story breaker at the moment. It would be one thing if she shared her knowledge and experience to help other Radiants grow, but instead she seems to be hording information, which makes her a good target for a drama inducing in death, where the characters then have to struggle to make up for the absence of someone so essential.

I have to disagree with you on this. OB made it fairly clear that all her research about the voidbringers basically amounted to nil compared to what everyone learned while she was away. She’s going to be taking on a very different role than secret-keeper now that she’s queen I think.

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I feel like a member of Bridge Four is going to be killed by Moash.

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I don't want Venli to die. I think it's an overdone character arc for someone who did a bad to "redeem" themselves by dying. It's cheap, too. It's far better that Venli survives and genuinely realizes her mistakes, genuinely regrets them and then concretely starts atoning for them by becoming a better person. 

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6 hours ago, Vissy said:

 

I don't want Venli to die. I think it's an overdone character arc for someone who did a bad to "redeem" themselves by dying. It's cheap, too. It's far better that Venli survives and genuinely realizes her mistakes, genuinely regrets them and then concretely starts atoning for them by becoming a better person. 

 

Agreed. I wasn’t too attached to her in OB, but she has a lot of potential and I want to see where Brandon takes her.

I will say I do like the idea of a major character death at the end of RoW. The last 3 books have had rather happy endings. Yeah, I realize the arrival of the Everstorm at the end of WoR is hardly happy, but in each book our heroes proved victorious in the final battle, and there was a decent bit of catharsis. If your going to switch it up, there’s no time better than the book right before the last one in an arc. The stakes will be drastically raised heading towards the end, and it’s easier to get away with an ending where the protagonists don’t turn out on top, since almost nobody whose made it this far through the series would stop right before book 5. 

Since Rhythm of War will have staggered endings to arcs, we could have positive endings to arcs in part 4 early part 5, then end in tragedy in the final arc.

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On 2019-11-07 at 9:52 AM, Vissy said:

I don't want Venli to die. I think it's an overdone character arc for someone who did a bad to "redeem" themselves by dying. It's cheap, too. It's far better that Venli survives and genuinely realizes her mistakes, genuinely regrets them and then concretely starts atoning for them by becoming a better person. 

We can have both. She could get a redemption arc and atone for them, and then die. I like the way her death could potentially mirror Eshonais, since we will have them both as flashbacks in SA4.

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I'd prefer to keep characters alive if possible. I'm not a fan of death as a plot device just because.

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1 hour ago, Vissy said:

I'd prefer to keep characters alive if possible. I'm not a fan of death as a plot device just because.

I agree. Otherwise I end up worrying it will go the opposite extreme of George R.R. Martin, where instead of adding gravity to the characters, it just removes attachment to them because they will randomly die. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 11:25 PM, Rushu42 said:

It's possible that Moash will die. I don't say this as wishful thinking, because I actually don't hate Moash, but more in view of the impact on Kaladin. It's already been brought up that Kaladin will probably have a death to motivate him, and I think Moash's could be a great one. Kaladin being Kaladin, he likely already feels that he let Moash down. The death would be a very interesting point in his arc, and feels like a very Sanderson thing to do. Perhaps Moash will even acheive some redemption first, just to make it hit that much harder. 

Moash could single handedly achieve peace on Roshar, unity between humans and parsh, and defeat Odium and I would still cheer when he finally died. I've wanted him dead since book 2. Then again I'm a bit vengeful when it comes to betraying friends. 

If there is one thing book 3 clarified is we know nil of who will live and who will die. Putting soft predictions out there: a herald, one of the family Davar (or all of them except for Shallan), a Ghostblood or three (was that their name? I've been out of touch of Sanderverse for a while), Mr. T as I wouldn't be surprised if the Diagram came to a head on this book.

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I've got a bad feeling that Lirin or a close companion of Kaladin's will die, leading up his 4th oath regarding how he can't always protect everyone...

On another note, I think we will get some new supporting characters from Kaladin/Venli's plotline that would bite the dust by the end of SA4...

We shall find out next year :)

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What if Kaladin dies and Teft sort of takes his spot in the story?

I'm not expecting it BUT, Kaladin currently seems more expendable than any of the other main guys - he's just a great fighter - Teft could theoretically fill his spot. None of the other mains have an obvious replacement.

Edited by rjl
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I really expected Adolin to die in Oathbringer. If he was saved in this book I'm tempted to think that he has a function in the next book. I feel like it's time a major character in bridge four was killed. 

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I mean, Adolin's got to stay alive for that Kadolin endgame... :ph34r:

Edited by Vissy
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On 11/9/2019 at 8:36 AM, rjl said:

he's just a great fighter

This is untrue.  Kaladin also brings with him a great respect for life, the future for Windrunners as a Radiant order, and an ability to lead that is incredibly important.  And these  are just the top

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So, most good writers will say that you should be willing to kill hour darlings, so no one is expliy off the table. That being said, I don't think Kal will die, as he is a central character, and as such is more likely to die in five. The same for Shallen and Dalinar. Jasnah won't die, as she sort of already has, my guess is Adalin, as he is not a central character and has no powers. Could be Lift or Szeth as well, but definitely the Moody son of a central character.

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I think Lirin is a 100%

I think at least 2 heralds (some of the unimportant ones) will bite it.

Ishar. Moash wont kill him, but I could see Dalinar and the gang taking care of it in this book, or in book 5. Then he goes back to Damnation, which gives Moash an excuse to go there and see what the place looks like.

Mulata, Mr. T, Adro, the Diagram all are possible in this book.

Mraize. He is some kind of junior Ghostblood in training, and Shallan will need to make a decision regarding the fate of Jah-Anat. Might end up killing him and inheriting some of his power (and a new boss in Iyatil).

I think Shallan's brothers are 100% (in some number)

Some number of Alethi High Princes. Maybe Aladar?

100% on a bridge four core member dying. My vote is on Hobber. Since he has recovered and improved so much it makes sense for him to die. Could also see Dabbid sacrificing himself unexpectedly.

The Vorin Church. It seems like a good morale crusher for Odium to destroy the Church in entirety. Especially if they start swinging opinion back toward the radiants after some evidence that the radiants are good.

People I don't think will die:

Anyone with a former or planned flashback book. That trick has been done, I don't think BS will repeat it, at least not so soon.

Moash. He is destined to die later.

Venli. The whole point is that Eshonai died instead of her. 

Adolin. He may die, but I don't think right now. He is the key to reviving blades which is something important I think. I don't think he'll have a bad book either. Book 5 might be bad for him though.

Gawx. He is being groomed as a good future ruler. He isn't there yet, and wont be killed until he is (if that).

Any Shin (on screen). I'm pretty sure Shinovar is a book 5 adventure.

Nale. He is destined to die in book 5 by Szeth's hand. Killing him with Nightblood probably will have the same effect as an Odium-blade.

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1 hour ago, Config2 said:

The Vorin Church. It seems like a good morale crusher for Odium to destroy the Church in entirety

I personally think something more interesting will happen here.  Maybe treachery that leads them to serving Odium or perhaps a fragmentation into several religions.  However I don't think any religion on earth has just collapsed and I don't think sandman will do it either. 

Edited by Karger
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