Cognitive Realm on Scadrial

[Firespir]

So we have 2 clear first person points of view from the Cognitive realm. One from Secret History on Scadrial and one from Oathbringer on Roshar. Shouldn't the realm follow the same general rules in both places? For example:

- there's some inversion between water-land on Scadrial but not all the time; as far as I remember in the first part Kelsier "runs" to the Well of Ascension to try and grab the power, but later when he goes to the Ire the big ocean is actually properly inverted as a landmass;

- Kelsier is able to see into the physical realm. In Shadesmar Kaladin and co. are in a totally separate place thhan the Physical realm. Yes the beads are there to represent objects from it but they can't track action in real time like Kelsier seems to be able to. Furthermore at the end of Bands of Mourning when Wax taps the metalmind the view from Kelsier's eyes is this exact thing again, half regular vision and half in the cognitive realm but with the outline of the real world;

- souls of the dead passing through the Cognitive realm on Scadrial and being able to interact with people in it. On Roshar I don't remember us seeing any souls appearing neither in Kholinar nor in Thaylena despite the numerous deaths happening at the time because of the battles;

What am I missing? I thought it might be because Kelsier was "dead" at first and then a Cognitive Shadow so he experienced things differently than people that just hopped from one realm to the other but he's able to interact with physical objects and people at will (Hoid, Khriss, Nazh, the Ire etc.) who are in the Cognitive realm too.

 

 

[Weltall]

The Cognitive Realm is not always consistent across worlds so what you see on one will not necessarily be the case on another. For example, the land/water inversion is not a universal trait:

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Questioner

So, if someone went to Shadesmar on Scadrial would the whole ground-water inversion, is that a Cosmere wide thing?

Brandon Sanderson

That you will have to read and find out about.  I will say that there are places in Shadesmar that are different and there are places that are the same as what you see on Roshar.  

Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014)

 

[Calderis]

The only one of these that is really a difference is the ability to see the physical. And that is a matter of the nature of the world's Cognitive realms. 

The rest... Kel being able to run on the mist. Seeing the souls of people dying... Those were both a difference in Kelsier, not the place. 

Hoid needed a "boat" to not sink in the mist. And... 

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ZuperzubS

In Words of Radiance, when the sailors were being killed, Jasnah/Shallan sees the flames representing the minds of the sailors vanishing in Shadesmar, but the sailors don't appear in the cognitive realm. In contrast, in Secret History, we see that all sapient entities do transition to the Cognitive Realm before going to the Beyond. Is there something strange here? Or am I just overthinking this?

Brandon Sanderson

You're not overthinking it--but it's also not as strange as you might think. The one seeing the spirits on Scadrial was in a different state than Jasnah/Shallan.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 27, 2018)

If Kelsier had a Physical aspect at the time, things would have been different. 

[Dancer]

5 hours ago, Firespir said:

 

- Kelsier is able to see into the physical realm. In Shadesmar Kaladin and co. are in a totally separate place thhan the Physical realm. Yes the beads are there to represent objects from it but they can't track action in real time like Kelsier seems to be able to. Furthermore at the end of Bands of Mourning when Wax taps the metalmind the view from Kelsier's eyes is this exact thing again, half regular vision and half in the cognitive realm but with the outline of the real world;

 

What Kelsier was seeing was not the Cognitive realm but the steel sight that all Inquisitors can do by seeing the trace metals in everything.

"Immediately, Wax was in a different place. A barren land, with no one in sight and only dust blowing around him.It was a difficult perspective to experience, for only half of the viewer's eyesight was normal. The other was all in blue, lines everywhere. The vision of a man spiked through the eye." Pg 436

What is happening is that you are glimpsing into the spiritual realm and creating a connection with nearby pieces of metal. The metal glows because you are seeing the power of the Shards Ruin and Preservation wishing to come into the physical realm through the metal.   

Edited October 31, 2019 by Dancer

[Firespir]

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

The only one of these that is really a difference is the ability to see the physical. And that is a matter of the nature of the world's Cognitive realms. 

The rest... Kel being able to run on the mist. Seeing the souls of people dying... Those were both a difference in Kelsier, not the place. 

Hoid needed a "boat" to not sink in the mist. And... 

If Kelsier had a Physical aspect at the time, things would have been different. 

So does this means that anyone in the Cognitive realm would be able to do the same? I.e. see the outlines of the Physical world and spectate the events there? 

[Dancer]

21 minutes ago, Firespir said:

So does this means that anyone in the Cognitive realm would be able to do the same? I.e. see the outlines of the Physical world and spectate the events there? 

Yes. Kriss and Naza were in the Cognitive realm observing the events of the final empire. From Kelsier's interaction with them they didn't act as if they were seeing anything differently. 

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, Firespir said:

So does this means that anyone in the Cognitive realm would be able to do the same? I.e. see the outlines of the Physical world and spectate the events there? 

Yes. Unlike in Roshar's Cognitive, where objects are perceived as beads and living things as flames, in Scadrial's Cognitive everything is mist. Objects look the same, and living things retain their form as well but glow. To distinguish individuals you'd need to know them well enough to recognize them by basically a silhouette, and you either need a "boat" like Hoid used, or the events would need to be viewable from water...

So it's still fairly limited, but not nearly as much so as Roshar.