Super Mistings?

[overlord stick]

So, I was exploring The Coppermind when I read through the Lerasium page. In it, it states that if a Mistborn were to burn Lerasium, it would strengthen their Allomantic power. If a Misting were to do the same, would on top of being a full powered Mistborn, also have the one metal they already had powered up beyond a Lerasium Mistborn? Another idea I had, was what if someone had a Hemalurgic spike for a metal as well as being full power?

[Quantus]

3 minutes ago, Lord Furret said:

So, I was exploring The Coppermind when I read through the Lerasium page. In it, it states that if a Mistborn were to burn Lerasium, it would strengthen their Allomantic power. If a Misting were to do the same, would on top of being a full powered Mistborn, also have the one metal they already had powered up beyond a Lerasium Mistborn? Another idea I had, was what if someone had a Hemalurgic spike for a metal as well as being full power?

Yup, that's what happens.  Vin was precisely this, it's why she could pierce copperclouds.  

[overlord stick]

Whoops, I forgot about that.

Edit: Thinking about it more, It is also possible that she was able to do that because they were weakened copperclouds, and her earring put her a little bit over their limit. I'm reluctant to believe the idea that a single extremely weakened hemalurgic spike could push a Mistborn weakened by a thousand years all the way past Lerasium. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Lord Furret

[Honorless]

13 minutes ago, Lord Furret said:

So, I was exploring The Coppermind when I read through the Lerasium page. In it, it states that if a Mistborn were to burn Lerasium, it would strengthen their Allomantic power. If a Misting were to do the same, would on top of being a full powered Mistborn, also have the one metal they already had powered up beyond a Lerasium Mistborn? Another idea I had, was what if someone had a Hemalurgic spike for a metal as well as being full power?

There is also the Lord Ruler as an example, he was also a Compounder, on top of all that.

[Karger]

34 minutes ago, Honorless said:

There is also the Lord Ruler as an example, he was also a Compounder, on top of all that.

TLR broke all kinds of "rules" though.

49 minutes ago, Lord Furret said:

If a Misting were to do the same, would on top of being a full powered Mistborn, also have the one metal they already had powered up beyond a Lerasium Mistborn

Unknown.  This is a valid line of reasoning though.  If you want to have one better metal you are better off alloying the original metal(iron say) with lerasium.  If you burn that it will strengthen just that one metal.

[TheMothLord]

1 hour ago, Honorless said:

There is also the Lord Ruler as an example, he was also a Compounder, on top of all that.

the lord ruler technically had ruin's or something similar's powers, correct? and both ruin and preservations powers are very different from allomantic/hemalurgic/ferrochemical magic. (please correct me if i'm mistaken) but what furret said makes a lot of sense

[Karger]

20 minutes ago, The Dude That Wore White said:

the lord ruler technically had ruin's or something similar's powers, correct

No.  He had Preservation's abilities once.  This was when touched the Well of ascension 1022 or so years before his death.

22 minutes ago, The Dude That Wore White said:

and both ruin and preservations powers are very different from allomantic/hemalurgic/ferrochemical magic.

They are basically gods so yeah.

[NameIess]

I think that tLR used the well of ascensions power to give himself super allomancy that was even stronger than Lerasium allomancy.

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

What's lerasium?

Brandon Sanderson

That is the bead of metal that Elend finds at the end of Book 2, that Vin finds and gives to Elend.

Questioner

Oh so there were only two and the Lord Ruler kind of left it there?

Brandon Sanderson

There actually were a bunch of them, and the first Mistborn came from people who ate that. The Lord Ruler took one for himself and he left others there to use if he needed them.

 

Footnote: Brandon has since canonized that Rashek used the power of the Well of Ascension to make himself into a Mistborn, not a bead of lerasium. Whether that contradicts this, or he used the bead for another purpose is unknown.

 

This footnote is the best source I could find.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Llstml

[StanLemon]

2 hours ago, Llstml said:

I think that tLR used the well of ascensions power to give himself super allomancy that was even stronger than Lerasium allomancy.

While I'm certain a lot of his power came from that, but I don't think it accounts for everything. When Wax was tapping the BoM he had TLR level power in Allomancy. There is definitely more to his power than just being a naturally powerful Allomancer

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

While I'm certain a lot of his power came from that, but I don't think it accounts for everything. When Wax was tapping the BoM he had TLR level power in Allomancy. There is definitely more to his power than just being a naturally powerful Allomancer

Exactly, he was stronger than a lerasium mistborn. He used the power from the well of ascension to rewrite his spirit web to channel power from preservation more powerfully than anyone else.

[StanLemon]

34 minutes ago, Llstml said:

Exactly, he was stronger than a lerasium mistborn. He used the power from the well of ascension to rewrite his spirit web to channel power from preservation more powerfully than anyone else.

Yes, but that likely wasn't the full story behind his power.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

Yes, but that likely wasn't the full story behind his power.

He could have also nicrosil compounded.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Karger

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

He also nicrosil compounded.

Possibly, but not that we have any proof of. 

[Karger]

18 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Possibly, but not that we have any proof of. 

Sorry.  Edited.

[Quantus]

18 hours ago, Lord Furret said:

Whoops, I forgot about that.

Edit: Thinking about it more, It is also possible that she was able to do that because they were weakened copperclouds, and her earring put her a little bit over their limit. I'm reluctant to believe the idea that a single extremely weakened hemalurgic spike could push a Mistborn weakened by a thousand years all the way past Lerasium. 

That's all a little more complicated than yes/no.  Allomancers naturally vary in power, and spikes degrade over time.  Burning a Lerasium Bead pure will make you a full Mistborn, but I think we have confirmation that alloying that entire bead will make you a stronger Misting of one metal than the mistborn would be in that one metal.  And in general the actual volume of Lerasium used affects the strength of the resulting bond, so if you try to divine a single bead (or manage to use two) it will proportionately affect the resulting Connection and strength of granted powers.  All that to say having Double of a metal from some means (hemalurgy, Lerasium, etc) is going to make you stronger than a Single-strength in most instances, but there is enough variance from person to person and spike to spike that the math will not always work out the same way.

[Halyo_Alex]

4 hours ago, Quantus said:

That's all a little more complicated than yes/no.  Allomancers naturally vary in power, and spikes degrade over time.  Burning a Lerasium Bead pure will make you a full Mistborn, but I think we have confirmation that alloying that entire bead will make you a stronger Misting of one metal than the mistborn would be in that one metal.  And in general the actual volume of Lerasium used affects the strength of the resulting bond, so if you try to divine a single bead (or manage to use two) it will proportionately affect the resulting Connection and strength of granted powers.  All that to say having Double of a metal from some means (hemalurgy, Lerasium, etc) is going to make you stronger than a Single-strength in most instances, but there is enough variance from person to person and spike to spike that the math will not always work out the same way.

This bothers me though, because doesn't that mean there could be a surprisingly strong Seeker and surprisingly weak Smoker that occur naturally such that that seeker can Pierce specifically that smoker's coppercloud?

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

This bothers me though, because doesn't that mean there could be a surprisingly strong Seeker and surprisingly weak Smoker that occur naturally such that that seeker can Pierce specifically that smoker's coppercloud?

I think so yes.  Particularly if you are including those that get their powers from degraded Spikes. 

[Halyo_Alex]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

I think so yes.  Particularly if you are including those that get their powers from degraded Spikes. 

If so then wouldn't that have happened at some point in the 1000+ years before Vin and people would at least have the rumour that it IS possible to pierce a cloud if you're "lucky"? Instead they seem to dismiss it as an impossibility, that nobody could pierce a coppercloud.

[Weltall]

2 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

This bothers me though, because doesn't that mean there could be a surprisingly strong Seeker and surprisingly weak Smoker that occur naturally such that that seeker can Pierce specifically that smoker's coppercloud?

Yes, just as Sazed points out that anyone with A-Zinc/Brass used to be able to control a koloss or kandra due to allomancy's raw strength being initially stronger before getting diluted over a thousand years, it's possible for a stronger Seeker to see through a weak Smoker's coppercloud. A Savant could also do it in theory and Elend could do it with brute force.

9 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

If so then wouldn't that have happened at some point in the 1000+ years before Vin and people would at least have the rumour that it IS possible to pierce a cloud if you're "lucky"? Instead they seem to dismiss it as an impossibility, that nobody could pierce a coppercloud.

It's less likely than you'd think. Exceptionally strong mistborn or mistings aren't very common and we know that a lot of Seekers became Savants without even noticing due to how often they flared their metals. Presumably Smokers would also tend towards becoming Savants due to how often they'd be flaring their metals, so the relative scale of power between Seekers and Smokers would remain more or less stable even as the overall power of allomancy waned.

Also, people did know that copperclouds could be pierced in theory since the Steel Inquisitors were able to do it, they just didn't know how it was done.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Weltall

[Hatman]

On 10/30/2019 at 10:33 PM, Karger said:

He could have also nicrosil compounded.

I do not think that it has been clearly shown what that does. 

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, Hatman said:

I do not think that it has been clearly shown what that does. 

Please do not Necro threads, it is against policy. In this case you would have been better served starting a new thread to update based on material since the last post 31 Oct 2019.

Spoiler

Post Necromancy;

• Refers to reviving an inactive and out of date topic without a legitimate reason. If you wish to continue the discussion please make a new post.
• Legitimate reasons for reviving a post could include;
  • New information has been released that directly relates to the central theory being discussed and creation of a new topic would not substantially differ from continuation of the original post.
  • Continuation of a forum game or roleplay
  • The topic in question is specifically meant to be ongoing (eg. Typo threads)
  • Many old topics have been locked to prevent thread necro’ing--if you believe a thread should be reopened, please contact a moderator.

[Hatman]

On 10/17/2023 at 7:05 AM, Treamayne said:

Please do not Necro threads, it is against policy. In this case you would have been better served starting a new thread to update based on material since the last post 31 Oct 2019.

  Reveal hidden contents

Post Necromancy;

• Refers to reviving an inactive and out of date topic without a legitimate reason. If you wish to continue the discussion please make a new post.
• Legitimate reasons for reviving a post could include;
  • New information has been released that directly relates to the central theory being discussed and creation of a new topic would not substantially differ from continuation of the original post.
  • Continuation of a forum game or roleplay
  • The topic in question is specifically meant to be ongoing (eg. Typo threads)
  • Many old topics have been locked to prevent thread necro’ing--if you believe a thread should be reopened, please contact a moderator.

What makes it a Necro thread? I looked at the linked guidelines and did not see any cutoff and this thread was started less than four years before my post and has not been locked. 

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, Hatman said:

What makes it a Necro thread? I looked at the linked guidelines and did not see any cutoff and this thread was started less than four years before my post and has not been locked. 

Precisely, it's been three years, so the topic is moribund. The Applicable section of the linked guidelines is (emphasis mine):

Spoiler

Post Necromancy;

• Refers to reviving an inactive and out of date topic without a legitimate reason. If you wish to continue the discussion please make a new post.
• Legitimate reasons for reviving a post could include;
  • New information has been released that directly relates to the central theory being discussed and creation of a new topic would not substantially differ from continuation of the original post.

So, the OP:

Spoiler

So, I was exploring The Coppermind when I read through the Lerasium page. In it, it states that if a Mistborn were to burn Lerasium, it would strengthen their Allomantic power. If a Misting were to do the same, would on top of being a full powered Mistborn, also have the one metal they already had powered up beyond a Lerasium Mistborn? Another idea I had, was what if someone had a Hemalurgic spike for a metal as well as being full power?

Was about if Lerasium stacked as double strength for a Misting becoming a Mistborn via bead (like Vin's double-bronze being a Mistborn with Ha-Bronze). Your comment was about a tangent, that was neither including new information, nor addressing the original post.  It's not a huge deal, and you are correct that the Mods don't put a hard time limit on these things (there are so many factors, it's difficult to measure). But it is also an anti-spam measure, since Bots often post to an old-but-not-locked thread as a way to post spam links they hope to go unnoticed by the Admins. 

I hope you did not think there was any animosity in my previous post - it was only intended to be a friendly reminder that a new thread is generally preferable to posting to old threads unless there is a very specific reason (and even then, it is sometimes better to do something like this post where yo ustart a new thread and reference/quote the original thread) to reply to that specific thread.

 Hope that helps. Have a great day. 

[Hatman]

On 11/12/2023 at 6:34 PM, Treamayne said:

It's not a huge deal, and you are correct that the Mods don't put a hard time limit on these things (there are so many factors, it's difficult to measure). But it is also an anti-spam measure, since Bots often post to an old-but-not-locked thread as a way to post spam links they hope to go unnoticed by the Admins. 

 

Thank you for clarifying. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Hatman