Jarford Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 so the first trilogy Sazed and vin have a conversation when Vin tries to burn one of Sazed 's metal minds nad she could fell the stored Ferechemic power but could accses it because it had Identity linking it to Sazed. I recently read BoM and was thinking about unkeyed metalmind and I was wondering if it would be posible to burn an unkeyed metalmind and more or less become a compounder. I would apperciate any thoughts on this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 14 minutes ago, Jarford said: so the first trilogy Sazed and vin have a conversation when Vin tries to burn one of Sazed 's metal minds nad she could fell the stored Ferechemic power but could accses it because it had Identity linking it to Sazed. I recently read BoM and was thinking about unkeyed metalmind and I was wondering if it would be posible to burn an unkeyed metalmind and more or less become a compounder. I would apperciate any thoughts on this. It should be possible. Quote Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) #34 Share Copy Play/Pause Kurkistan If you spiked out Miles' Feruchemical gold, would he be able to burn his Allomantic reserves [read: Feruchemical reserves using Allomancy] and heal it back? Brandon Sanderson If you spiked out his ability to heal gold and somehow left him alive? Kurkistan Yeah, but still having Allomancy. Brandon Sanderson Still has Allomancy... Kurkistan And he’s like in the middle of burning a goldmind. Brandon Sanderson Yes, that would still work. It'd still have a Spiritual Connection to him. Kurkistan So if you're a Coinshot and you get [spiked] to have Feruchemical steel, and then you lose the spike after making a store, you can still Compound that for speed? Brandon Sanderson Yes... Yeah, that should still work. Kurkistan Was Paalm doing that? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO. There might be a reason why not but I don't know it and neither (to the best of my knowledge) does anyone not connected with Sandman himself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 My question is, why didn't Vin give Sazed some Aluminum and ask him what he could store in it? she knew that it worked for Allomancy, and all of the other other metals that worked for allomancy also worked for feruchemy, right? she knew that, so why didn't she give some to him to see what it would store? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 47 minutes ago, Llstml said: My question is, why didn't Vin give Sazed some Aluminum and ask him what he could store in it? she knew that it worked for Allomancy, and all of the other other metals that worked for allomancy also worked for feruchemy, right? she knew that, so why didn't she give some to him to see what it would store? She is not a scholar. Also Saze was either out of touch teaching the people of the outer dominances or with Tyndwil working on stuff. Afterward he stopped using his feruchemy so when was he going to store? Finally the effect of storing in aluminum is not physically apparent unless someone soothed pre and after storing Saze they would likely not notice the difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Jarford said: so the first trilogy Sazed and vin have a conversation when Vin tries to burn one of Sazed 's metal minds nad she could fell the stored Ferechemic power but could accses it because it had Identity linking it to Sazed. I recently read BoM and was thinking about unkeyed metalmind and I was wondering if it would be posible to burn an unkeyed metalmind and more or less become a compounder. I would apperciate any thoughts on this. To pull that off you'd still have to be at least a Misting of the relevant Metal. From there I'd say it's possible that you could burn an keyed Metalmind and get the Compounding effect, but equally possible that it would still require you to be the correct Ferring type to access the feruchemical Investiture or else it would behave as if burn any other randomly Invested metal but not accomplish the compounding hack. 53 minutes ago, Llstml said: My question is, why didn't Vin give Sazed some Aluminum and ask him what he could store in it? she knew that it worked for Allomancy, and all of the other other metals that worked for allomancy also worked for feruchemy, right? she knew that, so why didn't she give some to him to see what it would store? You cant just blindly "Store" into a metal without knowing what you'd be storing first, you need the correct Intent just like you need it before you can access an Unsealed Metalmind. Sazed was experimenting with these newer metals as mucha s he could but was unable to figure out their full uses. It simply takes time and experimentation, which Sazed and Vin didnt have. It's also the whole reason that Brandon made the Investiiture Inert metal Aluminunm rather than Silver like he'd originally indended: he specifically wanted it to be all but unheard of in a pre-industrial society but become much more common in Era2 and beyond. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Quantus said: You cant just blindly "Store" into a metal without knowing what you'd be storing first, You just need to think store. You don't need to know what you are storing. 1 hour ago, Quantus said: you need the correct Intent just like you need it before you can access an Unsealed Metalmind. Marsie tapped everything. She was not specifically thinking about what was in there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 21 minutes ago, Karger said: You just need to think store. You don't need to know what you are storing. Marsie tapped everything. She was not specifically thinking about what was in there. Im pretty sure that is very much not the case, or else Sazed's experimentation with Malatium would have yielded something 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiberty Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Quantus said: Im pretty sure that is very much not the case, or else Sazed's experimentation with Malatium would have yielded something Could be something unnoticeable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said: Could be something unnoticeable. Personally I think Atium alloys will be very strange Feruchemically. My favorite theory is that they "steal" their alloyed metal's normal attribute from someone you're touching. So malatium would store somebody else's health, which could then be tapped to heal the malatium ferring/feruchemist instead. Obviously very dangerous, and indeed, one might even call it Ruinous. But it's probably super unlikely. It just fits with the whole "couldn't get very far" thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 16 hours ago, Quantus said: Im pretty sure that is very much not the case, or else Sazed's experimentation with Malatium would have yielded something 14 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said: Could be something unnoticeable. Exactly. Think about storing fortune. You are not going to notice anything for quite some time. Its not like there are immediate effects. Also how do you think the era 2 people figured out the remaining metals? I seriously doubt they got a bunch of feruchemists and had them all one at a time try storing different things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Karger said: Exactly. Think about storing fortune. You are not going to notice anything for quite some time. Its not like there are immediate effects. Also how do you think the era 2 people figured out the remaining metals? I seriously doubt they got a bunch of feruchemists and had them all one at a time try storing different things. Admittedly that is exactly what I was imagining. A slow, scientific study where they conceive of possible traits, attempt to store it, fail repeatedly, and keep detailed records of what they intended. Either that or praying really hard until Harmony just gave in and told them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Quantus said: Admittedly that is exactly what I was imagining. A slow, scientific study where they conceive of possible traits, attempt to store it, fail repeatedly, and keep detailed records of what they intended. This sounds rather impractical considering the rarity of feruchemy, the fact that they had no idea if any of the people they were using actually had the talent and that they don't even know what connection or fortune really are yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, Karger said: This sounds rather impractical considering the rarity of feruchemy, the fact that they had no idea if any of the people they were using actually had the talent and that they don't even know what connection or fortune really are yet. Which I figure fits with the fact that it took them hundreds of years to figure out what little they currently know about those traits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, Quantus said: Which I figure fits with the fact that it took them hundreds of years to figure out what little they currently know about those traits. Given that only about one in 1500 people is a feruchmist and putting the average population at 10million only about 41 people with each talent would have existed during the first century or so and you have absolutely no way to ID them as different from anyone else. This kind of project assuming you have absolutely everyone involved is going to take many hundreds of years but they already have a decent grasp of things in only 300 indicating that their is a faster way. Also when using the medallions not everyone was used to storing weight or necessarily had a good idea of what they were storing but they all did so no problem, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, Karger said: Given that only about one in 1500 people is a feruchmist and putting the average population at 10million only about 41 people with each talent would have existed during the first century or so and you have absolutely no way to ID them as different from anyone else. This kind of project assuming you have absolutely everyone involved is going to take many hundreds of years but they already have a decent grasp of things in only 300 indicating that their is a faster way. Also when using the medallions not everyone was used to storing weight or necessarily had a good idea of what they were storing but they all did so no problem, You arent wrong but I think it's key that the Terris are not a random population mixed into the rest the way allomancers are, they are an isolationist sect with a very concentrated population. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Quantus said: You arent wrong but I think it's key that the Terris are not a random population mixed into the rest the way allomancers are, they are an isolationist sect with a very concentrated population. That is a modern thing not an ancient one. During early years after the cacacendre Terris interbred a lot with everyone. This is why ferrings showed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, Karger said: That is a modern thing not an ancient one. During early years after the cacacendre Terris interbred a lot with everyone. This is why ferrings showed up. "a lot" is relative. Ferrings are far more rare than mistings precisely because of how insular the Terris community is. Personally, I do think it's a bit more automatic and that malatium Feruchemy was just a non-obvious trait. The way Marasi experiences the medallion in the airship, while yes she is aware of what it's supposed to do, she could feel that it wanted something from her and she gave it... If a person knew that they were a Feruchemist, like Wayne did, and held the metal they had Feruchemy for, they should be able to feel something similar even if they don't know what it is that they are giving. Sazed not making progress could as easily be not understanding what was being altered as what an inability to store... That said, other than aluminum, I can't think of any of the metals that I don't think would have a noticeable and immediate effect to the user. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Calderis said: that I don't think would have a noticeable and immediate effect to the user. Chromium, electrum, Duralumin or potentially Nicrosil. Edited October 30, 2019 by Karger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 30 minutes ago, Karger said: Chromium, electrum, Duralumin or potentially Nicrosil. The way electrum is described in the Ars Arcanum, I don't think that there's any way that it wouldn't be immediately obvious something was happening. With Nicrosil and Duralumin, I think it would depend on what exactly was chosen to be stored since those seem to be akin to tin and would have variable inputs (also harder to figure out). If fortune works off of the innate ability that people have to judge probability, which is also what I think is stolen and stacked as "destiny" in Hemalurgy, then I think the effects would be immediate and obvious, if not to the actual Feruchemist, then to everyone around them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Calderis said: With Nicrosil and Duralumin, I think it would depend on what exactly was chosen to be stored since those seem to be akin to tin and would have variable inputs (also harder to figure out). Possibly. If you just store generally though you might have a hard time. 2 hours ago, Calderis said: If fortune works off of the innate ability that people have to judge probability, I thought fortune is more like destiny. IE fortune is what pulled all 10 of those people in SA together at that point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 On 29/10/2019 at 11:32 PM, Ookla the Chicken said: Could be something unnoticeable. Or something that Sazed did not have. If malatium stored fertility, for example, Sazed would have had a problem. On 30/10/2019 at 5:42 PM, Ookla the Prolific said: Chromium, electrum, Duralumin or potentially Nicrosil. You would still have a charged metal mind. If you had a Lurcher or a Coinshot look at them, you would have identified the correct Ferrings. And those would really have an incentive to experiment? But are there ferrings for malatium? Or atium for that matter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Oltux72 said: Or something that Sazed did not have. If malatium stored fertility, for example, Sazed would have had a problem. Excellent guess! This would actually explain a lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsecaller_17.5 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 That's sounds . . . really viable, congrats on the theory. Only limitation I see if being the proper kind of misting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said: That's sounds . . . really viable, congrats on the theory. Only limitation I see if being the proper kind of misting. I don't understand this statement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said: That's sounds . . . really viable, congrats on the theory. Only limitation I see if being the proper kind of misting. I don't understand this statement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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